Is bitcoin transaction fees fair? - page 63.

Mandy420

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

It seems like a good solution, but I don't know if it could work. There is a very specific reason why you can choose the amount of fee right? I don't know it :p, but everyone decides how much want to give to miners, how much she/he thinks want to spend on them. That's my theory Roll Eyes

Betwrong

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Quote from: szpalata on April 28, 2017, 11:22:40 AM

Quote from: ePesoInitiative on April 28, 2017, 10:55:47 AM

The fee market is bullshit - He who pays higher gets to confirm first. LOL, the goal post (fees) will go higher and higher as everyone will try to outdo each other. Eventually as the high fees become unacceptable, especially when bitcoin price is soaring high, many will give up and look for alternative means of crypto transfers.

Precisely, these crazy fees has had me change from using Bitcoin to gamble. I now convert my bitcoins into ethereum before gambling because I pay far less with ethereum and I forsee a growth in this trend in the near future and that looks scary for Bitcoin because the Alts will gain unusual usefulness that might steal the shine out of Bitcoin.

That's interesting. I have never used ethereum but I already heard a lot of good words about it. So what are the fees with ethereum and to what extent they are low compared to Bitcoin?

Also I'm wondering do you calculate how much you lose when exchanging BTC for ETH and then vice versa? After taking that into account is it still worth doing?

Shady

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Life is a game, you either play it or get played.

Unless another update comes, the only way miners get paid is through this system after all coin has been cracked.

With price gains and positive publicity, the amount to pay will grow just as standard rate simply because of how everything will circulate in this economy.

szpalata

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Quote from: ePesoInitiative on April 28, 2017, 10:55:47 AM

The fee market is bullshit - He who pays higher gets to confirm first. LOL, the goal post (fees) will go higher and higher as everyone will try to outdo each other. Eventually as the high fees become unacceptable, especially when bitcoin price is soaring high, many will give up and look for alternative means of crypto transfers.

Precisely, these crazy fees has had me change from using Bitcoin to gamble. I now convert my bitcoins into ethereum before gambling because I pay far less with ethereum and I forsee a growth in this trend in the near future and that looks scary for Bitcoin because the Alts will gain unusual usefulness that might steal the shine out of Bitcoin.

ePesoInitiative

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The fee market is bullshit - He who pays higher gets to confirm first. LOL, the goal post (fees) will go higher and higher as everyone will try to outdo each other. Eventually as the high fees become unacceptable, especially when bitcoin price is soaring high, many will give up and look for alternative means of crypto transfers.

bartolo

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Transactions that pay more fees are faster than those that pay less fees, it's normal, but that's not the problem. The problem is the time it takes. For example, if the transactions with higher fees took a minute and those that pay less took two hours, it would be understandable. However, the problem is that there are transactions that are taking 12-24 hours and that is too much.

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: robocop3 on April 28, 2017, 02:50:38 AM

It is unfair when transfrer small amont btc. but with big amont,the transfer fee is attrcative! so can the fee can change with the transfer amont?

The fees right now are actually high so it is better if you don't do small transactions because it has a possibility that you might receiving smaller amounts rather than to your paid fee. So if you want to be wise then do all you sending activities of bitcoin in one time so you don't need to pay high or expensive fees.

robocop3

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It is unfair when transfrer small amont btc. but with big amont,the transfer fee is attrcative! so can the fee can change with the transfer amont?

earningtrend

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I think is better than other online payment system like paypal and payza atleast we give low fees compare to them

Amph

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Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Quote from: Wei H on April 27, 2017, 10:10:22 AM

The transaction is much higher than other payment methods, I made a 0.3B transaction(containing a lot small/old transaction) and it required 0.005B as recommended fee, it's more expensive than traditional transfer systems. In this situation the Bitcoin is really bad and people would avoid to use Bitcoin. Why would I pay this high fee for a small amount transaction?

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

fee won't coem down magically, until the consensus is reached, but people who are usint it now are using it anyway to buy stuff that maybe are expensive enough and can overshadow the fee

i bet the majority of people that use bitcoin now are mid-rich people that dont care much about the fee, just take a look at that video about a japanese female buuying something with bitcoin, she had 1000 btc

Taki

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I am not agree with your idea high price - low fees and low price - high fees. Nobody will want to exchange or do something with their coins in the case if it's going to be high fees with the low price for bitcoin. That will seen grabbing. The current situation seems to me fair. That exchanger which I use take fixed percent and in the case of high and low price the value of fee is also changing proportionally.

coynedterm

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Quote from: doaremon on April 27, 2017, 11:21:27 PM

Transaction fees are fixed like 2% of the amount. When the amount in good like 1BTC or more, these fee seem very little but if its very low amount the fee is like burden. Transaction fees are necessary but I think it can be reduced depending on the amount of transaction.

No you are wrong , the fee for the transaction of the bitcoin is not specified by the amount of the bitcoin .
The transaction fee is sufficient or not for the confirmation depends upon the input and output of the bitcoin amount that we want transfer .
If you want transfer 1 bitcoin then 120sat/byte is sufficient fee for the confirmation and I think you need 30-40k Satoshi atmost .
But you should be careful that the amount of 1 BTC you should receive from the single transaction , I mean if you have the 1btc and want transfer then you need to pay high fee if you have BTC in your wallet recieved by multiple transactions .
So here I will advice to everyone never accept bitcoin in small small amounts , Because they leads into the increase in the fee that is necessary for the confirmation of the transaction .

doaremon

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Transaction fees are fixed like 2% of the amount. When the amount in good like 1BTC or more, these fee seem very little but if its very low amount the fee is like burden. Transaction fees are necessary but I think it can be reduced depending on the amount of transaction.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: Sadlife on April 27, 2017, 09:47:05 PM

The users have a choice to either pay low but the transaction might get delayed for days but if you pay high of course the transaction will be faster.
Sometimes even if you have paid high to make your transaction faster there are some instances that it might get delayed due to the Bitcoin scaling problem.

Correct, but if we want on not to pay the transaction fee, then we could wait for a day for us to receive or to be received by the receiver the bitcoin that we have sent. But since we do need the bitcoin, then we don't have a choice but to pay to have faster transaction. Still, it depends on the bitcoin user though.

The other way for us not to pay this transaction fee is the receiver and the sender must have the same wallet, and to have faster transaction.

hardtime

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Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

This is something that people seem to forget about Bitcoin, it's the demand of wanting to be confirmed firs that's going to pretty much lead to a fight in the tx fees going up in order to acheive this. For instance, if everyone is going to be paying 10 cents for the transcations and someone wants to go faster they'll pay 12 cents. Slowly everyone will gradually move up to this so they get confirmed faster and faster.

This'll go on and on until we hit such a high point like we're at right now and we also have a scaling issue that needs to be addressed, thankfully BTU died off and Segwit should take more of a prevalence and maybe with UASF even run and save us from the high fees at the moment.

Fees aren't fair but that's how this all works, can't fight it if you actually want to use BTC.

noictib

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Quote from: Sadlife on April 27, 2017, 09:47:05 PM

The users have a choice to either pay low but the transaction might get delayed for days but if you pay high of course the transaction will be faster.
Sometimes even if you have paid high to make your transaction faster there are some instances that it might get delayed due to the Bitcoin scaling problem.

True , every technology in this world has atleast a small bug , so we can't say that bitcoin have any problem or any fault of the bitcoin that we need to pay high fee .
Here if you will send bitcoin to another then even your transaction will get confirmed at 25-26sat/byte , since it take more time but still but 70-80% chances have that it will got confirmed .
Here in.the bitcoin Transaction a type of the competition arise due to the high fee payeer for the sudden confirmation , so if you want faster confirmation then you need to enter in the competition to pay high fee , other you face problem of slow confirmation .

daringdiscovered

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Quote from: Sundark on April 27, 2017, 03:32:17 PM

Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

Today I transferred 0.1 BTC. My best fee calculated by my wallet was exactly (at time of sending transaction) $0.82.
Obviously I don't care about outputs and this sort of stuff, normal bitcoin users don't like to see what is under the hood.
Do you think that sending $136 with $0.82 fee is high?

Actually this high transaction fees doesn't bother me, we are earning a lot on the Signature Campaigns, Altcoins Signature Campaigns and their Social Media Campaigns, like Facebook and Twitter, so high transaction fees is not a big deal if we are going to think about it. Well it does matter to those who are just earning on the FAUCETS here in the crypto world, because the earning there is very little, so high transaction fees does matter to them.

Sadlife

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The users have a choice to either pay low but the transaction might get delayed for days but if you pay high of course the transaction will be faster.
Sometimes even if you have paid high to make your transaction faster there are some instances that it might get delayed due to the Bitcoin scaling problem.

Ashong Salonga

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

Blockchain transaction fees are not like that. We should understand that the rate of bitcoin doesn't affecf miner's fee since it is upon the quantity of transactions being processed. As number of transaction is increasing, miner's fee are going to increase since you have to pay more expensive as for your transaction gets confirmed faster faster due to transaction traffic. Not that there are options of choosing the price of miner's fee.

MingLee

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Quote from: pixie85 on April 27, 2017, 09:15:56 PM

Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 04:14:11 PM

Quote from: Sundark on April 27, 2017, 03:32:17 PM

Quote from: The One on April 27, 2017, 12:33:06 PM

Avoid and no longer usable until fees come down. Having money that no longer useable is madness.

Today I transferred 0.1 BTC. My best fee calculated by my wallet was exactly (at time of sending transaction) $0.82.
Obviously I don't care about outputs and this sort of stuff, normal bitcoin users don't like to see what is under the hood.
Do you think that sending $136 with $0.82 fee is high?

That would depend on what i am doing with 0.1 BTC. If i was buying a product and it is $5 cheaper than the competitions, then $0.82 is ok.

Would it mean that bitcoin transactions are good only for big purchases? Paying almost $1 for a transaction of $100 or more doesn't look bad, but paying $1 for a coffee worth $2 is a ripoff. Even bigger transactions like $10 are not worth it if the fee takes 10%. If we want Bitcoin to be our savings, an electronic gold, it's all fine, but if we want to use it daily the fees must be lowered.

Just send a transaction with a smaller fee then. It's not like they have to spend $1 on something that small if they don't want to, all they have to put up with is a longer time for the transaction to be confirmed.
While having to wait is not a good thing, let me clear that up, the block sizes right now are primarily the cause of that (along with the occasional spam attack) and there isn't much that can specifically be done to fix that. It'll take a while before there's a solution to all of that.

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