Topic: is cloudhashing.com a scam?? - page 16. (Read 46870 times)

You're pretty much the problem with Bitcoin. Noobs are expected to do stupid shit because they are noobs, which practically means stupid. But to do something you know is stupid INTENTIONALLY...sigh.

Please read Personal responsiblity and the Ponzi scam and review your community-damaging behavior. You are bad for Bitcoin, leaving alone how bad you are for yourself.

With the current power requirements of the Jalapeno, you can draw  a linear function graph (in the form of (ax + b = c) to predict how much a minirig would use. If you average the jalap at around 40W/h consumption (varies from 30W to 50W), the minirig would need about 10MW or 10000W of power. If you have 6 minirigs like what cloudhashing has purchased, you would basically need a nuclear reactor which produces on average of approx 800MW to 1100MW of power which is unrealistic to power up the minirigs! BFL have missed their power consumption goals by 666.67%.
But then I leave it to BFL to produce something as it is still not May... which is in 3 days

So I bought a couple contracts today.  And I have a couple problems already.

1.)  I can't log into my account.  There is no place to even log in.  So I don't even have an account.  It's like you buy it and wait and see. 

2.)  The contract count did not go up after I bought. I bought 3 contracts, it stayed at 5412/6000.  Even after they were confirmed.  Maybe it updates later.

3.)  Once all the contracts are sold, no more can be bought by new customers.  Only existing customers can buy the old contracts.  So eventually all the customers will be dead, what then?  And they could be down to one customer some day.  It's like John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run, we're all dead."

4.)  I asked customer service about my id and password, they replied, "Someone will contact you shortly."  How long is shortly because that was over an hour ago?  Granted it is Sunday. 

5.)  A few typos on their website.  Punctuations, spaces, commas, and such.  Should be spotless.

Anyway, these are my objections.  But I still bought.  I understand growing pains are expected.

Actually.. I got my "Hero Member" status after saving 2 babies and a kitten from a burning building.

Yes I am aware of that :-)

Quotes from BFL this week were 170 J/Mh...

cloudhasher, I would like to clarify something...

The "Hero Member" title is not a title bestowed upon someone for their acts or deeds. It is merely a title given to you when you reach a certain post count. (crossposted to other thread)

Please review our status here

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coincanaryorg-no-longer-updated-all-known-vendors-and-status-176262

We have been checked out and cleared.

That is true about MtGox, they used to have a Barclays account but then it was closed off and now transfers need to go through their polish bank.

Pretty sure that the BFL equipment will use 2-3 times as much power as they initially suggested. That's if it turns up.


This is mostly semantics, so it comes down to wording. They are obviously not selling financial instruments, shares, vouchers or e-money.

All they have to do is properly word their material so that they are selling "Compute Power" or similar and all of your arguments go away.

The comment regarding the BFL being owned by their shareholders.... well they are gonna have to be very careful how they word that because clearly the buyers of these "shares" are not.

In my opinion the wording used by the site and the poster on here is terrible which is the clearest indicator that these guys haven't thought this through properly.

There is no way that they have sold 5500 slices of the pie, that in my opinion is a big red flag to me. I do not believe the whole offline bullshit. This is the largest and really only bitcoin forum going, if they sold that many slices we would have enough people reporting about it by now.

My opinion, they are £60k down and are trying to hedge their losses and are doing so in a terrible way.

A LTD Company is a legal person so all orders should be in a bold type name like "COMPANY NAME LTD" or you're breaking the law.
A LTD Company cannot offer to sell it's shares to the public, or your breaking the law.
For a LTD to sell financial contracts, issue e-money or shares of anything, you need to register with http://www.fca.org.uk or you're breaking the law.

Even MtGox cannot get a bank account in the UK. They take regulations seriously here.

Hi,

Not all contracts have been sold online. Some were actually sold to piers and organisations we had done business with previously. Also contract prices were lower at the advent but as prices rose, we had to look to raise our prices also even though we already had a paid for pre order as subsequent orders to BFL will be more expensive.

We are doing well with our online sales given the current dip in BTC price.

I provide proof of purchase, you will say its doctored,  I think anything I provide will have the same comment from this group. Best we wait for BFL delivery before commenting further.

Kind regards

They have sold 5249/6000 contracts.
That means at least 53 people have invested in this (maximum 100 contracts / person), but probably the number of investors are a lot higher.

Assuming those numbers are real, would not at least one of the investors say something in this thread?
If I were to invest money into something, and that company is accused of being a scam, I would try to be a part of that discussion, at least saying: "I invested in this company because the seem legit to me because of xxx and yyy".


Another possibility is that 5249 is a fake number, to give the sense of
"omg, > 80% of the contracts has been sold already, I better hurry up and buy".

What is the best predictor of future behaviour? Analyse the person's past and present behaviours. I'll explain.

BFL have a terrible shipping track records and you should take this fact into account because it is fact and there is no denying it. I ordered in late February and cancelled in April because orders where supposedly shipping by January when I looking up their website. What happened? They got further delayed! This pattern was observable since 2012 and this is not recent phenomena. They have been accepting pre-order monies since summer 2012 (many claim they lost their money due to the "no refund policy" especially if paying in bitcoins as sales are final) and delaying month after month causing an angry bitcoin community which I can understand their anger and frustration.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterflylabs-huge-scam-114329
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bryan-micons-butterfly-labs-scammer-investigation-including-josh-zerlan-136392

You should also take into account the past and present evidence and data available (there are accusations with no evidence and are not true but some accusations do come with proof in the form of images and videos so please view the latter address I have posted ref Bryan Micon) that exist so that you can make an informed decision of where you want to invest.

An analogy to what is happening that if you were to write a systems paper with half baked solutions, your paper won't even be accepted in conferences (unless its a 6 page systems workshop paper or a work-in-progress paper); you must describe a problem, describe a solution, and provide data to back up your claims. What is happening in the bitcoin community is that there are people who write papers that have describe a problem, have no data or a demonstrable test bed and describe half baked solutions.

I will not say that BFL is neither real or a scam until I see a fully working product. Due to that I am basing judgement on my previous experience with BFL, I will not pre-order anything from any company until I see a proof of concept that is demonstrable.

Unfortunately there have been a long string of scammers over time and I believe that if companies want to make a good impression, the least that they can do is showing to the bitcoin community that their idea works and is demonstrable.

I am grilling you to see how well you hold up to objective critiques. Unfortunately, the proof that you have submitted is not enough; i.e. the order you posted with a UK delivery address and some people have expressed worries.

I believe the questions and opinions given are valid and any person who is in the business would ask. If you present yourself as a new company into a community of bitcoin miners, I believe to be reasonable that you should be expected to go through a grilling process which helps me, and others, to understand better your plans, and how your business model works. Think of it as dragons den; we are the possible investors willing to invest in an idea and you are the guy with the proposal but need investors to make it a reality. We will grill you and depending on how you answer my questions and others from the community, I might conclude that either; a) you are a serious company with a solid business plan with fault tolerant systems in place intending to set up a business implementation that may survive for many years, b) a company attempting to implement a high risk business model where technical/sourcing flaws exist, or c) a scam.
So my critique here is as my previous opinions given before whether you want to take it or not, and why should potential customers (us the mining community) invest in your business plan that is centrally based on a product that no one has seen or observed any demonstrable activity? i.e. hashing.

As a last point, children don't normally ask technical and challenging questions and so far with your condescending comment, you are not holding up to my expectations as a serious company who are seeking customers within the bitcoin mining community.

Looks like they're accepting PP and CC too. Chargeback if it doesn't work 

I have corresponded via email with Emmanuel from cloudhashing.com.

I have learned that they have a couple of the Butterfly Labs machines on order. Emmanuel also told me that they are in communication with the BFL people and that he expects the BFL machines to be delivered soon.

I have two smaller BFL machines on order and part of the reason I wanted to correspond with them is I figure that if they bought a couple of US$30,000 machines, they would know more about BFL delivery dates than anyone.

My intuition is that the cloudhashing folk are NOT scammers. Yes, they are charging twice as much per GigaHash as you would pay if you bought a BFL machine on your own. On the other hand, they will maintain the machines. If BFL delivers my machine and a few months down the road I have a problem with my mining rig, I am sort of SOL.

I was trained as a scientist in grad school. That means, I wait for evidence before I make some accusation. There is no reason to believe that Cloudhasing is a scam. They might not get their mining rigs delivered, but that doesn't mean they are a scam. Emmanuel assured me that if they do not get delivered, all contract purchases will be refunded.

I do not have any financial interest in Cloudhashing, and have not yet bought any contracts. I just responded because it bothers me when people make accusations that are unsubstantiated.  State your beliefs, but if you are going to make a statement that is accusatory, please provide evidence.

Not true. Out terms and conditions actually specify that for indefinite contract holders, the device belongs to the contract holders (our clients). We merely charge a maintenance fee. These are handled by the legal terms not a PO. I handle the orders so specify my name as a contact.

I do appreciate your willingness to protect your forum members, however it seems like no matter what we post or send as proof will not suffice until BFL deliver. Lets just do that and wait.

I am a little disappointed as the bitcoin community is not as anti business as this forum seems. A simple attempt to advertise our service has turn into nothing more than an opportunity for you to have a war of attrition which does both parties no good.

Kind regards

Hi,

Check the BFL forums, you will find that you must send an email to BFL and the hosting partner after making the order. BFL then deduct the first month's hosting cost from the delivery charge as its basically in the same city. This process is not handled in their standard order process.

Seems like you guys want an on going argument and not proof. No matter what is sent to you, you will challenge it. :-)

A bit childish if you ask me.

He is hiding? You can obviously make it out that it belongs to him (not the LTD).