Is it advisable to memorize seed phrase? - page 4.

posi

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

I read that one of the best ways to preserve a seed phrase is to write it on a piece of paper and keep it in a safe place... Somewhere safe could be in your home out of the reach of family members and friends, it could also be a safe deposit box. But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

I believe we must have seen or heard about fire outbreaks, where buildings are completely erased by fire. Imagine if the owner or occupant of such a building has some Bitcoin assets, and has his/her phone, tablet, laptop and the seed phrase piece of paper in the building and everything was lost to fire. Now, this brings me to the question... Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

Memorizing is not a perfect way to store seed phrases, what if you accidentally forget one of them? You will no longer have a chance to get your assets back. That is not a viable solution.

There are many ways to store seed phrases, but none of them are absolutely safe because, as you say, incidents like fire, flood, natural disaster... such things are unpredictable. The best we can do is make different copies and store them in other places, this can help you avoid unexpected losses.

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

[...]
Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

There is a bunch of memory techniques that can help remember even random sequences of numbers, letters or words.
Usually they require constant practice unless you learned them at a very young age and already have internalized some methods.

Probably the most efficient method for a seed phrase is the story method: https://artofmemory.com/wiki/Story_Method/
You use each word, vizualize it and connect it in a memorable way with the next word. With some practice and repetition this will easily work with a 24-word-seed-phrase.
However, solely relying on it without any other physical backup seems way too risky in my book.

If you want to go crazy, look up methods to remember pi and apply them to a private key (not recommended but if you got too much time on your hands could be fun).

Rikafip

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

I believe we must have seen or heard about fire outbreaks, where buildings are completely erased by fire. Imagine if the owner or occupant of such a building has some Bitcoin assets, and has his/her phone, tablet, laptop and the seed phrase piece of paper in the building and everything was lost to fire.

The way I am dealing with a problem of a a seed phrase being destroyed by fire is that I stored a copy of my seed phrase with another family member who I absolutely trust. Another good way to make sure that seed is not destroyed by fire is metal plate with engraved seed phrase.

Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

Of course it can be memorized if you put some effort into it, but I would never rely solely on my own memory for something as important as seed phrase. Beside the obvious dangers of simply forgetting about it, there is always a possibility of some head injury/illness that can affect your memory permanently.

cryptomaniac_xxx

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

I read that one of the best ways to preserve a seed phrase is to write it on a piece of paper and keep it in a safe place... Somewhere safe could be in your home out of the reach of family members and friends, it could also be a safe deposit box. But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

I believe we must have seen or heard about fire outbreaks, where buildings are completely erased by fire. Imagine if the owner or occupant of such a building has some Bitcoin assets, and has his/her phone, tablet, laptop and the seed phrase piece of paper in the building and everything was lost to fire. Now, this brings me to the question... Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

I don't agree on memorizing your seed phrase, sooner or later your memory will fail you and you will regret that you have put it everything on your mind. I agree that we need to keep it in a safe place if we write our seed. So it's important to put in a safe deposit box or have multiple back up of it.

But there are what we call crypto metal wallets,

You can read it here, it might be outdated, but you will get the idea.

https://decrypt.co/26749/the-best-crypto-metal-wallets-you-can-buy-now

Sebas.tian

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Quote from: sokani

It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

No, is not advisable to memorize seeds phrase because anything can happen that will affect your brain or your health that will make you to forget all the things in your head at the moment. Those that memorize their seeds phrase in the past, difficult for their family to recover their coins after their death, that made many people to learned from their mistakes never to memorize seeds phrase than to write them down in a place their children or wife can have access to them when they depart from this world. But it's advisable to write the seeds phrase on a paper, and also store them inside your phone or laptop in case anything happen to your house, you can easily use the one you store in your phone or laptop to have access to your coins again.

xSkylarx

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There are many ways to save your seed phrase, including memorizing it, but don't just rely on it like you still have backups like putting it on paper, or I've seen someone write it in steel so it won't burn, and others have multiple backups just to be safe. Though memorizing it is beneficial, it is difficult because you do not know if you will remember it after a few weeks, so it is preferable to write it down on something that cannot be burned; simply be creative.

pooya87

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Quote from: Eternalman on January 06, 2023, 01:49:20 AM

~
I am not the best of coders out there, but I do agree with the picture, and I am confident that my password would be neigh impossible to crack, unless google sells, it which is even less likely

There are a lot of ways that an online account can be hacked that doesn't require brute forcing or that much effort. The most common way is stealing users' password through phishing attacks in which case it doesn't matter how long the password were!
There could also be vulnerabilities that are unknown today but found in the future in their servers that could be exploited.

NotATether

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I just use old boxes that were used to package small products, instead of a safe.

Also, I don't memorize my seed phrases, that's what the papers are for. I do however memorize my wallet passwords (and avoid writing those down as it is a security risk to keep fetching them every time you forget).

CODE200

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on January 06, 2023, 02:07:20 AM

This cannot be overemphasized; do not attempt to memorize your seed phrase. It is sometimes called a mnemonic phrase, but was never intended to be retained in the head. If you rely on your memory as the only means of backup for your seedphrase, you can consider them lost already. Regardless if you turn it into a song or ask someone to help you with remembering it.

Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

If you own some Bitcoins you can afford a piece of paper or better still a book where you can write it down on. To avoid the risk of a fire or natural disaster, you can store it in two, separate, secure locations.

Yes. Indeed. Memorizing it is simple and can be achieve yet the risk of forgetting it someday might possible too. Imagine. If you have a lot of assets in a particular wallet, if you accidentally forget the seed phrase, your assets will go to waste. And I also never heard or read somewhere the idea that someone who forgets its seed phrase and doesn't have any physical copy is luckily guess or use any app to open its wallet. And just like what other says. Its better to be safe than sorry.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on January 06, 2023, 01:18:51 AM

I have memorized and seen people memorize much more difficult things by turning them into music. Music can stay longer in memory than something you just read because of the melody and rhythm attached to it. So, if you can make music out from your seed phrase or even a poem, you will be able to remember it for a longer time.

I know singers and it is easy that when they sing a song they change some words. Or theater actors who memorize a script, usually change something unconsciously when they perform. Relying on your memory could work out well in the short term, if it is to go to another country for example, but there is a high probability that it will go wrong. It is better to rely on something external. I remind you that Einsteir said: "A short pencil is better than a long memory."

Cvetik56

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Nah, I think memorizing your seed phrase is too dangerous, you need to have a copy of it somewhere, because there is a big chance you'll forget it at some point, maybe even if you'll repeat it every day. I wrote it on paper and keeping it safe.

Upgrade00

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This cannot be overemphasized; do not attempt to memorize your seed phrase. It is sometimes called a mnemonic phrase, but was never intended to be retained in the head. If you rely on your memory as the only means of backup for your seedphrase, you can consider them lost already. Regardless if you turn it into a song or ask someone to help you with remembering it.

Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

If you own some Bitcoins you can afford a piece of paper or better still a book where you can write it down on. To avoid the risk of a fire or natural disaster, you can store it in two, separate, secure locations.

bittraffic

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A deposit box is a usual place where robbers or anyone who wants to look at if they wanna take something from you. Any dumbass criminal will find your seed if you keep it there. What you need is to write it somewhere not obvious like a laminated menu sheet in the kitchen or something like that.

Memorizing of course is advisable, you can go anywhere without it. But you know when you grow old, it's the brain cells that are the first to deteriorate.

lovesmayfamilis

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People are very often afraid of what, in principle, cannot happen. Keeping your seed phrases in different places will give you some peace of mind. For example, I would be very worried if I had a lot of money in my wallet, but even in this case, having good money, you can buy a fireproof safe. Someone wondered how people who have millions on their account store their seed phrases. But I often see the opposite, panic is created by those who probably have a couple of hundreds in stock, and they worry about their seed phrase like a chicken about an egg.

Eternalman

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 06, 2023, 01:31:12 AM

Quote from: Eternalman on January 06, 2023, 01:25:52 AM

Why don't you consider uploading it to the cloud?

That is what I did with metamask phrases. I remember the password of my email. And in fact, all I need to remember is the password of my email, I synced everything, so when I log in to Gmail, everything automatically gets synced, and I have the doc where my seed phrase is saved.

I'd recommend that, it is convenient, easy.

It seems convenient but storing your seed phrase on a cloud service is is one of the most insecure way of seed storage. A lot of things could go wrong for you, from a simple account hack where your password is leaked to bigger catastrophic events where the cloud service itself gets hacked and everyone's accounts and their content is leaked where users aren't even informed for a long time while the company covers it up.

https://imgur.com/cuOUwee

I am not the best of coders out there, but I do agree with the picture, and I am confident that my password would be neigh impossible to crack, unless google sells, it which is even less likely

Maximeppler4

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I think the best way is to write in a notebook that will not be lost, a piece of paper is easy to lose, or a memo on a mobile phone. I shared my mnemonic with my lover, because my memory is not good, he can Help me, I trust him.

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

I read that one of the best ways to preserve a seed phrase is to write it on a piece of paper and keep it in a safe place... Somewhere safe could be in your home out of the reach of family members and friends, it could also be a safe deposit box. But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

If you don't store your backup online, at any third-party platform, server, cloud, you are using a safer backup method, even with a paper, at home and without a deposit box.

Of course, a good deposit box, a vault can be better method to store your backup as it keeps it away from water, fire damages.

Quote

Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

For me, it has never been in my mind.

Human brain and memory are limited so chance to see memory vanishes with time is too high.
If you don't touch your seed daily, after a few weeks, few months, I am sure you will forget it.
More important, you might get an accident (of course I wish you the best) which can cause damages on your brain and memory will be lost. You can not say it will never happen.

pooya87

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Quote from: Eternalman on January 06, 2023, 01:25:52 AM

Why don't you consider uploading it to the cloud?

That is what I did with metamask phrases. I remember the password of my email. And in fact, all I need to remember is the password of my email, I synced everything, so when I log in to Gmail, everything automatically gets synced, and I have the doc where my seed phrase is saved.

I'd recommend that, it is convenient, easy.

It seems convenient but storing your seed phrase on a cloud service is is one of the most insecure way of seed storage. A lot of things could go wrong for you, from a simple account hack where your password is leaked to bigger catastrophic events where the cloud service itself gets hacked and everyone's accounts and their content is leaked where users aren't even informed for a long time while the company covers it up.

Eternalman

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

I read that one of the best ways to preserve a seed phrase is to write it on a piece of paper and keep it in a safe place... Somewhere safe could be in your home out of the reach of family members and friends, it could also be a safe deposit box. But not everyone are financially buoyant to afford the services of a deposit box.

I believe we must have seen or heard about fire outbreaks, where buildings are completely erased by fire. Imagine if the owner or occupant of such a building has some Bitcoin assets, and has his/her phone, tablet, laptop and the seed phrase piece of paper in the building and everything was lost to fire. Now, this brings me to the question... Can seed phrase be memorized? It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

Why don't you consider uploading it to the cloud?

That is what I did with metamask phrases. I remember the password of my email. And in fact, all I need to remember is the password of my email, I synced everything, so when I log in to Gmail, everything automatically gets synced, and I have the doc where my seed phrase is saved.

I'd recommend that, it is convenient, easy.

Queentoshi

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Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

Can seed phrase be memorized?

I have memorized and seen people memorize much more difficult things by turning them into music. Music can stay longer in memory than something you just read because of the melody and rhythm attached to it. So, if you can make music out from your seed phrase or even a poem, you will be able to remember it for a longer time.

Quote from: sokani on January 05, 2023, 11:23:12 PM

It's advisable to memorize seed phrase?

You have to make the song a personal song or poem, meaning not to teach anyone else or tell anyone else the reason or meaning of your song/poem.

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