Is Michael Saylor a modern apostle like Peter and Paul? - page 3.

KalOlak

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Quote from: Lucius on July 24, 2023, 08:08:56 AM

@KalOlak, before using the forum it would be wise to read the rules of the forum, do you agree? In that case, you would know what rule 32 is and you wouldn't do what you are doing.

To begin with, I will just say that it is completely pointless and wrong to involve any elements of religion when it comes to Bitcoin, because we are not any cult, sect or church or fanatics from the underground who want to destroy the financial order of the world.

Furthermore, if you are suggesting that Saylor is like the apostles, then I assume that you consider Satoshi Nakamoto to be some kind of modern day Jesus who sacrificed himself so that the world could have Bitcoin? This not only makes no sense, but it harms Bitcoin much more than it helps it in any way.

It is your personal matter what you will think and how you will act in life, but I am guided by the old saying "Give to the emperor what is emperor, and to God what is God's."

Personally, I am an atheist. But please remind me, what makes a cult or religion so bad? Richard Thaler has proven that there is no mathematical model, no matter how complex, that could predict the price (i.e., the behavior of market players) of not only Bitcoin but any other asset as well. Therefore, no matter what your strategy is regarding Bitcoin, it will rely not on science but solely on faith. So why your Bitcoin strategy is not modern cult or religion?

Lucius

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@KalOlak, before using the forum it would be wise to read the rules of the forum, do you agree? In that case, you would know what rule 32 is and you wouldn't do what you are doing.

To begin with, I will just say that it is completely pointless and wrong to involve any elements of religion when it comes to Bitcoin, because we are not any cult, sect or church or fanatics from the underground who want to destroy the financial order of the world.

Furthermore, if you are suggesting that Saylor is like the apostles, then I assume that you consider Satoshi Nakamoto to be some kind of modern day Jesus who sacrificed himself so that the world could have Bitcoin? This not only makes no sense, but it harms Bitcoin much more than it helps it in any way.

It is your personal matter what you will think and how you will act in life, but I am guided by the old saying "Give to the emperor what is emperor, and to God what is God's."

KalOlak

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Quote from: Gallar on July 24, 2023, 07:04:59 AM

Quote from: KalOlak on July 23, 2023, 02:24:09 PM

~Snip

In terms of adopting bitcoin, I totally agree, that Michael Saylor is a total bitcoin supporter and lover. In fact, as far as I know, Michael Saylor is currently in fourth place in the world, as the owner of the most cryptocurrency assets, and bitcoin is probably the most widely owned cryptocurrency. So do not be surprised if Michael Saylor is called a supporter of cryptocurrency assets (bitcoin) which will be very influential.

But when compared to the apostles in a religion, I think this opinion is not quite right. Because cryptocurrency or bitcoin is not a belief or a religion. But bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are a digital asset that can be used as an investment or a means of payment. So the totality of Michael Saylor to bitcoin, is like implementing it in the company system that he owns. Indeed, all of that will certainly have a big influence on the adoption of bitcoin on a large scale. But still, the context of adopting bitcoin with a religious teaching spread by its apostles is very different, so it still can't be equalized.

I think you won't argue that Saylor doesn't use Bitcoin as a means of payment. Saylor uses Bitcoin as an investment, that's for sure. But besides that, Saylor also uses Bitcoin as collateral for a margin loan. Why sell Bitcoin if you can use it as collateral in the bank? If the price of Bitcoin grows at a higher percentage per year than Saylor's loan interest rate, Saylor will be able to get refinancing from banks forever. Skin in the game, tho.

Gallar

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Quote from: KalOlak on July 23, 2023, 02:24:09 PM

~Snip

In terms of adopting bitcoin, I totally agree, that Michael Saylor is a total bitcoin supporter and lover. In fact, as far as I know, Michael Saylor is currently in fourth place in the world, as the owner of the most cryptocurrency assets, and bitcoin is probably the most widely owned cryptocurrency. So do not be surprised if Michael Saylor is called a supporter of cryptocurrency assets (bitcoin) which will be very influential.

But when compared to the apostles in a religion, I think this opinion is not quite right. Because cryptocurrency or bitcoin is not a belief or a religion. But bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are a digital asset that can be used as an investment or a means of payment. So the totality of Michael Saylor to bitcoin, is like implementing it in the company system that he owns. Indeed, all of that will certainly have a big influence on the adoption of bitcoin on a large scale. But still, the context of adopting bitcoin with a religious teaching spread by its apostles is very different, so it still can't be equalized.

KalOlak

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Quote from: sunsilk on July 24, 2023, 06:11:29 AM

I am off with this comparison and let it just be Bitcoin alone and someone who likes it and has got a lot of money invested on it. No one has instructed him in doing so unlike the Apostles that they've got a Master to follow and spread the Word that has been taught to them.

Before Saylor there goes the most popular one whom is now gone, RIP John. Although he's just an all talk guy but his attention getting to the crowd has been effective to him but that's not what we want to see for Bitcoin's growth.

While Michael is a guy that isn't just all talk but also putting money where his mouth is.

John had no skin in this game. Not even close.

sunsilk

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I am off with this comparison and let it just be Bitcoin alone and someone who likes it and has got a lot of money invested on it. No one has instructed him in doing so unlike the Apostles that they've got a Master to follow and spread the Word that has been taught to them.

Before Saylor there goes the most popular one whom is now gone, RIP John. Although he's just an all talk guy but his attention getting to the crowd has been effective to him but that's not what we want to see for Bitcoin's growth.

While Michael is a guy that isn't just all talk but also putting money where his mouth is.

KalOlak

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Quote from: Outhue on July 24, 2023, 02:16:59 AM

Religion and investment? They don't go with each other, far from comparison OP, this is money matter and Saylor is just a smart guy when it comes to making money, whatever he predict my be wrong but also it can be intentional, somethings for new money to swim into an asset there must be some goal rumor that must be created, it's what I see with big Bitcoin investors calling 1million per Bitcoin, deep down they knew its not possible but if they tell the truth how are they going to cash out?

Crypto, stock and others are like chess games, if you know how to play it right, you will be among the few winners, Manipulation is real, even among the popular faces in crypto space.

Do not believe everything people say about Bitcoin on the news, most time it's manipulation, it's a brain game, have your own plan.

Before he became known as Paul, he was called Saul. Saul was a devout Jewish Pharisee who vehemently opposed the teachings of Jesus and viewed the early Christian movement as a threat to Judaism. He actively sought out and persecuted followers of Jesus, even participating in the stoning of the first Christian martyr, Stephen.

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/413478389329428480

Quote from: Faisal2202 on July 24, 2023, 01:48:30 AM

if i look at Michael Saylor as modern apostle then i think i might not be wrong because he didn't waited for ETFs to be approved while he can do that too because by doing that he might get more volume and users but he didn't waited for ETFs he just made his own company name Micro-Strategy and backed it up with BTC and now people are buying shares in his company means they are buying shares in BTC but indirectly.

Well, coming back, he didn't waited for any ETFs or big approval he was the first in my POV and thus this make him the early adopter of the BTC. But, now if we see the dedication's impact on BTC which Michael Saylor has on BTC. i think it do matter. Because let's say if he started to sell BTC in bulk or started to go against BTC or at least make any statement. Then there will be fud.

And his investors will sell all of his shares and if he is going to sell them then we are ok because currently he owns 152,333 bitcoin according to coindesk. Such huge fuds will obviously create panic in the community and huge selling will start due to which market will become bearish.

Sure, Sayor has skin in the game. Essentially, he created a quasi-ETF on Bitcoin, which allows him to earn fee on the spread and a interest fee from lending out Microstrategy shares to short sellers. You're saying he can sell Bitcoin? Yes, that's possible. But who would kill the goose (sell Bitcoin) that lays golden eggs? You want sell 21,000,000 Bitcoin (for example)? Well, welcome to lose all at $0.01 for $210,000 and then +$infinity on the next trade. I call that strategy.

But what is your strategy?

worle1bm

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on July 23, 2023, 10:12:05 PM

Some may find Saylor's analogy to the Prophet of Bitcoin or Paul exaggerated, but regardless of the names, there is in every new matter a man who embraces the idea and works to spread it well.

Although it would be inappropriate to liken Bitcoin to a religion, Saylor does a good job of popularizing the concept of Bitcoin, which helps expand global adoption.

I believe that we will one day reach global adoption, but this is difficult to happen at the present time because we need a long time to consolidate these concepts and spread them on a global scale.

He is seeing profits with Bitcoin which is why he invest at most of the dips but still he's investing million dollars into it on risk factors so he is somehow making good approach towards btc and also promote it through various podcasts and videos but there is motive to boost company profits with it as well.But for a global adoption the facilities needs to be provided to people like internet and smart phones which many thrid world countries still don't have and they rely on local resources only but on broad levels we have come much far.

Outhue

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Religion and investment? They don't go with each other, far from comparison OP, this is money matter and Saylor is just a smart guy when it comes to making money, whatever he predict my be wrong but also it can be intentional, somethings for new money to swim into an asset there must be some goal rumor that must be created, it's what I see with big Bitcoin investors calling 1million per Bitcoin, deep down they knew its not possible but if they tell the truth how are they going to cash out?

Crypto, stock and others are like chess games, if you know how to play it right, you will be among the few winners, Manipulation is real, even among the popular faces in crypto space.

Do not believe everything people say about Bitcoin on the news, most time it's manipulation, it's a brain game, have your own plan.

Faisal2202

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if i look at Michael Saylor as modern apostle then i think i might not be wrong because he didn't waited for ETFs to be approved while he can do that too because by doing that he might get more volume and users but he didn't waited for ETFs he just made his own company name Micro-Strategy and backed it up with BTC and now people are buying shares in his company means they are buying shares in BTC but indirectly.

Well, coming back, he didn't waited for any ETFs or big approval he was the first in my POV and thus this make him the early adopter of the BTC. But, now if we see the dedication's impact on BTC which Michael Saylor has on BTC. i think it do matter. Because let's say if he started to sell BTC in bulk or started to go against BTC or at least make any statement. Then there will be fud.

And his investors will sell all of his shares and if he is going to sell them then we are ok because currently he owns 152,333 bitcoin according to coindesk. Such huge fuds will obviously create panic in the community and huge selling will start due to which market will become bearish.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Well, I remember hearing similar things from another guy who was all the rage when I registered on the forum, John McAfee. He was also making predictions about how much the price of bitcoin was going to rise and whether he was willing to eat his dick for it, falsely as it turned out. Although in Saylor's favour I have to say that he seems more intelligent and doesn't seem to lead the life of excess that the other one did, but we have to be careful with those who we promote as they can turn out to be the losers.

Darker45

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Well, yeah, you can somehow compare Saylor with those sacred personalities, although I personally don't like the idea of such comparison. It might send a wrong message. There is already an existing tendency of some Bitcoin supporters to somehow treat Bitcoin as some sort of a religion or cult. Some avid advocates appear very close-minded because of it.

Also, adoption of Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer electronic currency should come first or should have more weight than its adoption as a new class of asset or a new hedge against inflation or whatever.

adaseb

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In 10 years if he doesn’t sell any Bitcoin prior he will be either known as the worlds best investor or the worst investor in the last 100 years.

He is heavily invested in it already and has billions riding for his company. He had a very good average last time we rallied to $69K and hasn’t sold anything. So it’s shows you how determined he is. It might hit $100K and he might not sell either.

When he starts to scale out it will be a problem because many retail will just copy trade him and sell. Just like Elon when he sold his Bitcoin holdings for Tesla.

yhiaali3

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Some may find Saylor's analogy to the Prophet of Bitcoin or Paul exaggerated, but regardless of the names, there is in every new matter a man who embraces the idea and works to spread it well.

Although it would be inappropriate to liken Bitcoin to a religion, Saylor does a good job of popularizing the concept of Bitcoin, which helps expand global adoption.

I believe that we will one day reach global adoption, but this is difficult to happen at the present time because we need a long time to consolidate these concepts and spread them on a global scale.

rat03gopoh

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I don't see MS trying so far to spread the lesson on the importance of adopting bitcoin seriously. Instead, I see him as just another market bubble maker with bitcoins he has piled up, that are none other than MS's business interests. You can see how the market reacted when it was under pressure from liquidation last year, most people were just worried it would happen. In this case MS can't protect its followers.

Fiatless

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Quote from: KalOlak on July 23, 2023, 02:24:09 PM

If Bitcoin were to replace the current global financial system and achieve widespread adoption as a decentralized and reliable store of value, some enthusiasts might see Michael Saylor as a visionary or a pivotal figure. Similar to how Peter and Paul played crucial roles in spreading the teachings of Christianity, Saylor's active promotion and strategic investment in Bitcoin could be viewed as instrumental in driving its adoption.

Bitcoin is an alternative payment system that promotes privacy and decentralization. Bitcoin has the potential of becoming one of the dominant currencies, especially when it becomes less volatile but I am not sure it will become the only currency. It will keep existing with fiat and people will have the opinion of using anyone.

Quote from: KalOlak on July 23, 2023, 02:53:33 PM

While the overindulgent citizens and bourgeoisie in the Europe or USA are struggling to comprehend that 2.625 Bitcoin are vital for them not to become slaves in the next 100 years or can't grasp how to conduct AML Bitcoin LN transactions, here's an interesting fact. In Africa, approximately 500 million people do not possess passports and consequently, they lack access to banking services. The only available financial instrument for them today is Bitcoin LN. Understand, gentlemen, strictly speaking, it is indifferent to me whether you join the Order 2.625 or if we have to form an Order with our African brothers. In some sense, it might even be easier with them since their minds haven't undergone nuclear cleansing from Marvel and DC, and I can teach them everything they need to know: Rwanda, Sudan, Kenya, Chad, Angola... strictly speaking, these territories hold countless riches... diamonds, gold, cadmium... you name it, just to add around 8 million plebeians to our Order. And then, who knows, perhaps the "old" money earned by Belgians on the backs of Rwandans will turn to dust, and Belgium itself will become a colony.

Your claim that African nations hold so much potential based on natural resources and population strength is true. But these resources are not reflected in the standard of living of the people on the continent. Most unbanked people in Africa are poor and have no need for banks because they have nothing to save. Lack of basic amenities and illiteracy will not give bitcoin a good opportunity to flourish. Bitcoin will be a leading payment option in Africa if these nations gain some level of development.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Quote from: KalOlak on July 23, 2023, 02:24:09 PM

If Bitcoin were to replace the current global financial system and achieve widespread adoption as a decentralized and reliable store of value, some enthusiasts might see Michael Saylor as a visionary or a pivotal figure. Similar to how Peter and Paul played crucial roles in spreading the teachings of Christianity, Saylor's active promotion and strategic investment in Bitcoin could be viewed as instrumental in driving its adoption.

The analogy suggests that just as the apostles were significant in the establishment and spread of Christianity, Saylor's dedication to advocating for Bitcoin and integrating it into his business strategies could be perceived as foundational for a potential future financial paradigm.

discuss

Comparing the work of Peter and Paul who went about spreading the good news of Christianity to that of what Michael Saylor is currently doing right now of his spread over the adoption of Bitcoin is kind of preposterous, because both are totally two different concepts, of which just as Peter and Paul offered a selfless service for the promotion of the kingdom of God, Michael Saylor is currently offering a service of which he stands to make huge profit if Bitcoin happens to skyrocket very high with mass adoption. Because I'm made to understand that Michael owns over 12,333 Bitcoin, worth over $369million with a current of approximately $30k per Bitcoin. So imagine how much profit he stands to gain if Bitcoin hit $100k, that is almost a billion dollars.

dansus021

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on July 23, 2023, 02:33:13 PM

This is just an investment, do not help the idea that the Bitcoin community is a cult on. We just resonate with the idea of freedom and decentralization.
Micheal Saylor is a guy who is looking after his investment, if Bitcoin rises in price, he profits, so it's only wise to help it on by using his influence.

I do agree with you Michael Saylor or Elon Musk or even BlackRock is just a businessman thas has a company and wants to invest in Bitcoin and get a profit from it. It just same like us they might tweet something about bitcoin so people buying more at the end of the day the can take profit retailer like us.

The world is like this :') but here we are

GreatArkansas

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I do not really agree about the word "replace".
For me, Bitcoin will stay just like fiat is staying for quite some time since it was started.

For me, our current financial system really sucks and Bitcoin will fix it. But for me, there will be only improvement on current financial that have Bitcoin involvement.

And these people that are popular in the market are only advocates, even if we can say that they indeed just pumping their bags, which for me is normal, you will do it if you are on their side as long as you are not doing any illegal.

Casdinyard

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Here we are again with the people who thinks bitcoin is the second coming of jesus christ or something. I mean it's one thing to be happy for its existence and support it with whatever you can but it's another to truly idolize it with the idea that it's the answer to all of the world's problems when it clearly isn't. Stop it with this you're more cringey than bitcoin maximalists. Michael Saylor did nothing but to preach bitcoin and buy it for microstrategy, I don't think he'd go as high as Peter and Paul in acclaim and fame just cause he supported one cryptocurrency when this thing is decentralized and the effort of it becoming a global currency lies upon the people and not among the hands of these promoters. Stop it. it's stupid.

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