Could you inform the bitcoin police when someone doesn't repay, they're building up a credit worthyness database that will cause consequences for not paying back.
Anonymous+no consequences=going to get ripped off.
Topic: Islamic Bank of Bitcoin{}بنك بتكوين الاسلامي - page 21. (Read 112785 times)
Very nice work Deprived. Thanks for the analysis.
For overdue debts I'd suggest gradually writing their value down - to represent that as the overdue period grows the likelihood of you ever receiving repayment decreases.
I imported the current loans data into Excel and knocked up a quick spreadsheet using the following valuation for overdue debts (just a guesstimate by me - there's not enough data to be accurate). I'd say I'm most likely over-valuing them if anything:
Debt 1-7 days overdue - valued at 80% of principal.
8-14 days overdue 60% of principal.
15-30 days overdue 50%
31-90 days overdue 30%
91-180 days overdue 15%
181+ days overdue written off (0% value)
Based on assessment at 28th August 2011 this gives the following:
If we look at how it would be if no more repayments were received by the end of September we get:
Note that in that one the single current loan (i.e. the last one which isn't overdue or settled) would now be in default. I'm not suggesting that will be the case - just showing how the written down value of outstanding debts would change.
I'd seriously suggest using either a spreadsheet or a database to track loans - ideally store the date on which repayments are made as well (especially for ones repaid after they were due). Then you can actually start calculating real repayment rates for different time periods once you have a decent sample size. e.g. if you've had 20 loans that were overdue a week and 3 of them were paid back befre it went 2 weeks late then you know that a debt which is 14 days late is worth about 15% less than one which is a week late.
I imported the current loans data into Excel and knocked up a quick spreadsheet using the following valuation for overdue debts (just a guesstimate by me - there's not enough data to be accurate). I'd say I'm most likely over-valuing them if anything:
Debt 1-7 days overdue - valued at 80% of principal.
8-14 days overdue 60% of principal.
15-30 days overdue 50%
31-90 days overdue 30%
91-180 days overdue 15%
181+ days overdue written off (0% value)
Based on assessment at 28th August 2011 this gives the following:
If we look at how it would be if no more repayments were received by the end of September we get:
Note that in that one the single current loan (i.e. the last one which isn't overdue or settled) would now be in default. I'm not suggesting that will be the case - just showing how the written down value of outstanding debts would change.
I'd seriously suggest using either a spreadsheet or a database to track loans - ideally store the date on which repayments are made as well (especially for ones repaid after they were due). Then you can actually start calculating real repayment rates for different time periods once you have a decent sample size. e.g. if you've had 20 loans that were overdue a week and 3 of them were paid back befre it went 2 weeks late then you know that a debt which is 14 days late is worth about 15% less than one which is a week late.
Credit cards don't charge off for 6 months of non-payment. I'm not really sure the accounting treatment they get till then . I pretty sure they don't book the "loss".
Which leaves us with the point you didn't address. If you made a loss in August (stolen loans being greater than all other profits combined), surely giving out a dividend reduces the asset value of IBB. Is that wise? Shouldn't you only be issuing dividends if you've actually made a proft? Not if you've made a profit if you ignore your losses?
Isn't debt considered an asset? When do you book a default as a loss? 1 month? 6 months? 12 months?
"So is there any rational reason why IBB shares are up very significantly? Or is it just blind optimism?"
speculation? profit potential? originally there were around 7 that pledged/invested in IBB, I didnt know they would sell their shares when shares went up.
i recently sold 10 shares @ 0.70 and bought back @0.60 so i made 1.00 btc there, and from dividends i will be getting around 1.00 btc so total 2.00 btc from IBB , a 1 month old company.
others have made over $1000 from buying/selling IBB shares.
".....be that the joint ventures are doing well. But looking at them, of the three:"
we have no website yet for IBB, bitcoinstarter.com will launch soon within 2 weeks, and i am still developing 2 websites for bitcoinholdings.net
with scamming & loss of btc & no website yet, shares are still up
speculation? profit potential? originally there were around 7 that pledged/invested in IBB, I didnt know they would sell their shares when shares went up.
i recently sold 10 shares @ 0.70 and bought back @0.60 so i made 1.00 btc there, and from dividends i will be getting around 1.00 btc so total 2.00 btc from IBB , a 1 month old company.
others have made over $1000 from buying/selling IBB shares.
".....be that the joint ventures are doing well. But looking at them, of the three:"
we have no website yet for IBB, bitcoinstarter.com will launch soon within 2 weeks, and i am still developing 2 websites for bitcoinholdings.net
with scamming & loss of btc & no website yet, shares are still up
Yeah - speculation seems the most likely reason for the share price increase. Which is a shame - as I was hoping there some reason more related to fundamentals.
On the startups not having websites operational yet, it wasn't my intent to suggest that they had scammed oranything: just that, as they aren't operating yet, they can't have generated any profit or demonstrable increase of the value of your investment in them.
Which leaves us with the point you didn't address. If you made a loss in August (stolen loans being greater than all other profits combined), surely giving out a dividend reduces the asset value of IBB. Is that wise? Shouldn't you only be issuing dividends if you've actually made a proft? Not if you've made a profit if you ignore your losses?
Just a question about your Arbitrage software. Instead of selling it, why not just use it yourself? If you sell it to a bunch of people wont it eventually just become worthless cause a bunch of people are using the same software, therefore the fastest computer/internet connection wins?
Seems like you could make alot more $$ just by running the software and splitting up the profits?
Just a suggestion.
Seems like you could make alot more $$ just by running the software and splitting up the profits?
Just a suggestion.
Doubt IBB has the funds to do the actual arbitraging themselves. To arbitrage you'd need to keep significant amounts of BTC AND US$ on ALL exchange sites you were intending to trade on. The profit comes from trading high volumes at a low profit each - and you lose that profit + more if every time you want to do a trade you have to transfer funds between sites. You even have to keep BTC on each site as well - as the opportunity may have gone if you have to wait to purchase for a BTC transfer to be confirmed.
I like the concept of IBB, but something's puzzling me in the August results.
You show a profit of ~6.5 BTC but have (at a quick count) 29 BTC in loans which are past their repayment date.
No doubt some of those have asked for an extension or explained why they'll be late repaying - but some of them have definitely stolen the money loaned to them.
Doesn't this mean that if you dividend out th 6.5BTC "profit" then in fact the asset value of IBB will have fallen?
So is there any rational reason why IBB shares are up very significantly? Or is it just blind optimism?
One possibility could, of course, be that the joint ventures are doing well. But looking at them, of the three:
One hasn't yet launched (but on twitter is saying they expect to shortly).
One has nothing at their listed web-page.
The last one has some kind of private content at their web-page - so presumably isn't operating.
In theory I'd be interesting in investing in IBB - but I can't see how to justify paying in excess of 1000% premium on shares in a venture which, on available evidence, appears to so far be running at a loss (the obviously stolen loans exceed the small declared profit).
You show a profit of ~6.5 BTC but have (at a quick count) 29 BTC in loans which are past their repayment date.
No doubt some of those have asked for an extension or explained why they'll be late repaying - but some of them have definitely stolen the money loaned to them.
Doesn't this mean that if you dividend out th 6.5BTC "profit" then in fact the asset value of IBB will have fallen?
So is there any rational reason why IBB shares are up very significantly? Or is it just blind optimism?
One possibility could, of course, be that the joint ventures are doing well. But looking at them, of the three:
One hasn't yet launched (but on twitter is saying they expect to shortly).
One has nothing at their listed web-page.
The last one has some kind of private content at their web-page - so presumably isn't operating.
In theory I'd be interesting in investing in IBB - but I can't see how to justify paying in excess of 1000% premium on shares in a venture which, on available evidence, appears to so far be running at a loss (the obviously stolen loans exceed the small declared profit).
One scammer can get a whole month's dividends if he doesn't pay his loans back!
IMHO, that's a good spent amount to get rid of the scumbags and young billythekids. IBB is doing some good things to the community, and as good always suffer, it get hurt a bit, moneywise.
But hey, it's just money!
A man's honour is worth more then few dividends, or money at all.
Yes, but real world honor is not bound to forum identities.
A scammer can create a new account every week, spam ~50 posts to get 'trust', scam IBB & start all over again using a proxy.
Not in my book. I'm using my real identity and asked the admin to delete my original, 1 post anon identity, in the name of trust and honour.
Yet again, there are some forum identities I can trust more then some real life samples I know, again moneywise.
I agree scammer is a scammer indeed, and will do anything just to make his scam work, and now he'll have to work his ass spamming the forums for 200 posts, and not to get banned or profiled to be a scammer for writing 150 stupid postcount trash.
Pitty that hurts honest low postcount peeps, and IBB business after all, but I agree such filter had to be added, until IBB comes up with it's own site and authorization/identification system.
Until then, I can only wish the best to IBB for what they're done so far in helping the ones in need of no profit loans, helping to weed out a few scumbags in the process, and making a fine example for many.
It's 200 posts
One scammer can get a whole month's dividends if he doesn't pay his loans back!
IMHO, that's a good spent amount to get rid of the scumbags and young billythekids. IBB is doing some good things to the community, and as good always suffer, it get hurt a bit, moneywise.
But hey, it's just money!
A man's honour is worth more then few dividends, or money at all.
Yes, but real world honor is not bound to forum identities.
A scammer can create a new account every week, spam ~50 posts to get 'trust', scam IBB & start all over again using a proxy.
One scammer can get a whole month's dividends if he doesn't pay his loans back!
IMHO, that's a good spent amount to get rid of the scumbags and young billythekids. IBB is doing some good things to the community, and as good always suffer, it get hurt a bit, moneywise.
But hey, it's just money!
A man's honour is worth more then few dividends, or money at all.
the faster we give small short term loans, the more chances we can get gratuity
You have a good business going on, hope you don't go handing out money and 'loans' to every 1-post wonder on the forums..
That will attract scammers like honey to bees. Should at least have some sort of verification.
One scammer can get a whole month's dividends if he doesn't pay his loans back!
# of posts apparently got changed to 200 posts minimum.
If you look back at the July financial report August was a pretty good month default wise. IBB adjusted the conditions so maybe that's a factor. The TOS are stickied in the lending sub-forum.
I'm really surprised not much has been done in regards to the scammer issue in general.
If you look back at the July financial report August was a pretty good month default wise. IBB adjusted the conditions so maybe that's a factor. The TOS are stickied in the lending sub-forum.
I'm really surprised not much has been done in regards to the scammer issue in general.
the faster we give small short term loans, the more chances we can get gratuity
You have a good business going on, hope you don't go handing out money and 'loans' to every 1-post wonder on the forums..
That will attract scammers like honey to bees. Should at least have some sort of verification.
I purchased 12 shares as a vote of confidence. For some reason GLBSE's charts aren't up to date
http://charts.glbse.com/markets/IBB.html
Not that it matters because the price is accurate when you actually purchase or sell stock.
http://charts.glbse.com/markets/IBB.html
Not that it matters because the price is accurate when you actually purchase or sell stock.
That is because with the GLBSE update the API changed and charts couldn't get any new trade info. Thats been fixed now.
Nefario.
I purchased 12 shares as a vote of confidence. For some reason GLBSE's charts aren't up to date
http://charts.glbse.com/markets/IBB.html
Not that it matters because the price is accurate when you actually purchase or sell stock.
http://charts.glbse.com/markets/IBB.html
Not that it matters because the price is accurate when you actually purchase or sell stock.
What is the maximum amount of BTC you have had at risk at any one time? I want to buy shares but need more info to determine risk of bankruptcy.
What does the arbritage software do?
Peter, it makes money on the difference between prices at seperate exchanges. It does it all automatically. If Mt. Gox price is lower than tradehill it will buy there and sell on tradehill if there can be a profit to be made.
The link is at the bottom of the original post.
Just a question about your Arbitrage software. Instead of selling it, why not just use it yourself? If you sell it to a bunch of people wont it eventually just become worthless cause a bunch of people are using the same software, therefore the fastest computer/internet connection wins?
Seems like you could make alot more $$ just by running the software and splitting up the profits?
Just a suggestion.
Seems like you could make alot more $$ just by running the software and splitting up the profits?
Just a suggestion.
Jump to: