Isn't Fiat the Real Ponzi | Bitcointalksearch.org

puloweh555

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Quote from: albert0bsd on October 30, 2023, 05:46:29 PM

It is a legal ponzi Shocked

All the bankers are the top of the piramire and all outside of it are paying with inflation.

I also have thoughts like you. Historically, haven't the global elite and their bankers created Ponzi schemes, where fiat, which is essentially just numbers, is used as a means to employ people around the world to enrich them (a small group).

Yes, even though we all need fiat because it has become a legal instrument in a country, the more I understand that this can be said to be a real Ponzi. That's why now we have to switch to bitcoin which has been proven to be the currency of the future, especially as it can be a way to prevent inflation.

tjtonmoy

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Quote from: slapper on November 07, 2023, 02:28:29 AM

~snip

I never said that Fiat currency is a Ponzi scheme. Brother I would blame people for using it as a mean to do Ponzi schemes. I agree with you that currency has been used for decades if not centuries for a mean of transaction and exchange for goods. But recently people are using it for their own advantage and making it bad. Everything that could be exchanged for goods could be used for Ponzi schemes.

It's not the things that people are using for Ponzi schemes are bad rather it is the people who are using it for bad purposes and make it bad. You cannot just replace traditional things that have been used for centuries. Instead, when to find alternative to it in order to fix the situation. Let's not go to a war with Fiat and Bitcoin. We need to learn to use both of them simultaneously so that they both can coexist.

davis196

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

Do really know what a ponzi scheme is(and how a ponzi scheme operates)?
Fiat is not a ponzi scheme. Fiat currencies are a legal tender with a decreasing value. The value is decreasing simply because the governments can't take financial responsibility and completely balance their budgets. It's easier to earn less and spend more. It's also easier to get into more and more debt, which is supposed to be paid by the future generations. The central banks are simply buying all this debt(in the form of government/treasury bonds) by printing more money. Those newly printed money aren't backed by more products(or assets), therefore the overall value of the money goes down(bigger money supply growth and less product supply growth).
The actual ponzi schemes are the national debts, created by the governments. This is basically borrowing money from the future generations in order to artificially maintain the high living standard of the current generation.

JunaidAzizi

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone ends up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase products with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

I think you may need to know the difference between the fiat money and the Ponzi scheme. The fiat currency is governed by the government while the Ponzi scheme was by hackers or fraudulent type people. You can not compare fait money with the Ponzi scheme. People sometimes time confused and call it a Ponzi scheme and I think this is because of inflation. In inflation the government prints more currency and the price of goods increases as a result people need more money to buy something. And some people get lost in this, those who save money, and those who have large assets are getting lost in all this situation. With the fiat currency, you can locally do anything purchasing or selling but in a Ponzi scheme you can not do so, so don't be confused about it.

Davian144

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Quote from: Samlucky O on November 07, 2023, 04:00:00 AM

You might be right thou. Economic inflation made Fiat to become scam instead of bitcoin. Although the tag given to Bitcoin as scam is not Bitcoin fault, but due to high level of online fruad with the friquent use of bitcoin as an alternative to cash out. The intemedation received by Bitcoin is never a threat to it growth. And this has given me an insight to aquare it. Bitcoin is the new digital gold with a great store of value.

In any event that befalls and involves Bitcoin, it is indeed illogical to blame Bitcoin completely or completely. Because this arises through the actions of the fraudsters themselves to carry out this action, even though it can also make Bitcoin's image bad in the view of a small number of people who just like Bitcoin. Even though Bitcoin is now worthy enough to be called digital gold due to several factors that have been seen in Bitcoin so there is no reason whatsoever to blame Bitcoin for anything that has happened.

As for economic inflation, it is quite clear that it will involve fiat as a whole because the disruption is so clearly felt by fiat users that it will not disturb Bitcoin as much. Although economic factors can also have a bad effect on people who want to use their money to buy Bitcoin in conditions of inflation, because when inflation occurs everyone thinks more about how to fight difficulties by trying to remove inflation from their own lives.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on October 30, 2023, 04:52:06 PM

Without a local currency, you can not be able to run a business in a country. But you can not run a business with a ponzi scheme as it will later collapse.

Fiat is backed by the government. Ponzi scheme is not back by anything but it may remain hidden until it collapses.

You can do a business with fiat but fiat become like a scam if you hold it. Why would you hold fiat when their are assets that you can go for.

You know everything about fiat and that makes it not a scam.

Yes fiat can not be associated with ponzi, because it is a means of payment for ponzi and any other item or services anywhere in the world. You can not put blame on fiat currency for Inflation, devaluation or mismanagement in any economy, because as I said earlier it is just a means to to exchange goods and services. Blames for any negatives that affects any fiat currency is as a result of other factors that determines it's value, and these factors can be by minting of excessive new currency into an economy that is stagnant, and the excess money released will devalue it's worth, where excess money will be chasing few commodities. Another is when a country so much dependant on other countries for imports of it's goods and services, it's currency will be devaluing while enriching the currency of the exporting country.

I also agree with you that fiat is better invested than holding it in a bank account, where it is not adding any value to the economy. If a lot of money is hoarded and doesn't circulate, it causes artificial scarcity that will cause the prices of goods and services to increase. So in all you can not blame fiat for any inflation in a country.

Minor Miner

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Quote from: hyudien on November 06, 2023, 02:58:45 AM

Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

If you think fiat is a Ponzi, try to avoid it, don't use fiat in everyday life to buy anything. Use options that you think do not fall into the fiat category. So, if you have success with other methods, let me know. On the other hand, if you don't really understand how fiat still has a role in meeting life's needs. Don't be fooled by the talk of successful people like Elon Musk because he already has everything, therefore adjust it to your situation and don't use Elon's thoughts too much as the basis of your life because you won't be able to.

Indeed, many people still depend and use fiat on a daily basis but it is difficult to understand why they call it ponzi or trash. That means they are using garbage and are participating in ponzi even if they already know about it. Furthermore, why don't we make our own judgments, why should we believe what Elon or anyone else says. Is what Elon said completely true?

People who have used fiat for centuries began to criticize and slander fiat when bitcoin was born. I fear that one day, these people will also speak ill of bitcoin if the world invents something newer and more perfect than bitcoin.

Samlucky O

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

You might be right thou. Economic inflation made Fiat to become scam instead of bitcoin. Although the tag given to Bitcoin as scam is not Bitcoin fault, but due to high level of online fruad with the friquent use of bitcoin as an alternative to cash out. The intemedation received by Bitcoin is never a threat to it growth. And this has given me an insight to aquare it. Bitcoin is the new digital gold with a great store of value.

slapper

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on November 06, 2023, 01:42:59 PM

Price of things are determined by demand and supply. People were able to buy more thing with less money back in the past which is not possible right now. We are paying more to get less. But that's how it works. There are more mouths to feed but fewer hands to make those foods. No wonder price will go up. There are also other things such as inflation that could decrease the value of money.

Fiat money has been around us for a long time. We have always paid with Fiat to get whatever we need. We are not losing but we are getting something in exchange. The amount we get can become less with time. But that doesn't make Fiat a Ponzi scheme. Imagine using Bitcoin to buy something with the same price as Fiat.

I am not on the side of Fiat but it is wrong to say that it is a Ponzi scheme. We can control the inflation if we take the right approach and follow right strategy. But the government is not willing to do that because they want to manipulate people. The government is the real culprit here and they are using Fiat to execute Ponzi scheme. Neither Fiat nor Bitcoin is a medium of Ponzi scheme, rather people are using them for bad thing and for this reason people assume that they are part of it.

I understand your demand-supply perspective. We pay more for less because prices have risen. Yes, money had more purchasing power in the past. Money value is at risk, not only more mouths to feed and fewer hands to make food. Fiat money is constantly destroyed by inflation. Though, fiat money underpins our modern economy. We exchange currency for goods and services, and inflation reduces our earnings. But calling fiat a Ponzi? I stop there. I'm not pro-fiat, but I see the broader picture. Fiat is a currency subject to economic and government policy, not a Ponzi scheme.

Consider using Bitcoin like fiat to buy stuff. Wild volatility, but no Ponzi scam. It's a separate beast that could change our monetary system or bite us if not managed well. The government can control inflation and stable money values. Are they willing? Questionable. They can manipulate, but we must hold them accountable. We need practical, solid measures to control inflation and preserve fiat a viable currency. Not the money, but its management. And I'm all for a system that works for the people, not against them.

STT

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Point with the gold is a good one, government can and will take actions to secure the nation in their eyes. Gold at that time of the compulsory order was exact money and yet everyone had to give it up. The same can occur with a forced pension buy in scheme for government failed treasury market imo. It seems very harsh and over the top but comparatively vs the extremes of a failed nation and by implication the failure of US forces and even NATO strength the implications are massive.

tjtonmoy

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Price of things are determined by demand and supply. People were able to buy more thing with less money back in the past which is not possible right now. We are paying more to get less. But that's how it works. There are more mouths to feed but fewer hands to make those foods. No wonder price will go up. There are also other things such as inflation that could decrease the value of money.

Fiat money has been around us for a long time. We have always paid with Fiat to get whatever we need. We are not losing but we are getting something in exchange. The amount we get can become less with time. But that doesn't make Fiat a Ponzi scheme. Imagine using Bitcoin to buy something with the same price as Fiat.

I am not on the side of Fiat but it is wrong to say that it is a Ponzi scheme. We can control the inflation if we take the right approach and follow right strategy. But the government is not willing to do that because they want to manipulate people. The government is the real culprit here and they are using Fiat to execute Ponzi scheme. Neither Fiat nor Bitcoin is a medium of Ponzi scheme, rather people are using them for bad thing and for this reason people assume that they are part of it.

albert0bsd

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Quote from: legendbtc on November 06, 2023, 01:15:28 AM

So what about USD? It is also currency and has been the world currency for over 100 years.

Talking about 100 years you dont mention this:

In 1933 people in the United states of America were forced to sell their gold at fixed rate of $20.67 per ounce of pure gold.
In 1944 the Bretton Woods system is implemented between 44 countries

Quote

The Bretton Woods system required countries to guarantee convertibility of their currencies into U.S. dollars to within 1% of fixed parity rates, with the dollar convertible to gold bullion for foreign governments and central banks at US$35 per troy ounce of fine gold (or 0.88867 gram fine gold per dollar).

In 1971 Nixon replaced the Bretton Woods system for the current FIAT system...

If you don't see any scam there there I am done talking with you.

The point with the countries with high inflation that i mention before is that it can happen to any country.

hyudien

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

If you think fiat is a Ponzi, try to avoid it, don't use fiat in everyday life to buy anything. Use options that you think do not fall into the fiat category. So, if you have success with other methods, let me know. On the other hand, if you don't really understand how fiat still has a role in meeting life's needs. Don't be fooled by the talk of successful people like Elon Musk because he already has everything, therefore adjust it to your situation and don't use Elon's thoughts too much as the basis of your life because you won't be able to.

legendbtc

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Quote from: albert0bsd on November 05, 2023, 10:48:09 PM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on October 31, 2023, 11:22:55 AM

Quote from: albert0bsd on October 30, 2023, 05:46:29 PM

It is a legal ponzi Shocked

All the bankers are the top of the piramire and all outside of it are paying with inflation.

If it really is a ponzi and you think the government created it to scam you, you should stop using fiat and stay away from it. But if you continue to use it and still can't live without it, don't just talk bad about it.

I am trying to do that, i am exchanging almost all my fiat for bitcoin. I can't do it 100%, but i am trying.

Fiat still have value because most people still believe that their money will have value tomorrow.. but ask about that to some people in Venezuela Zimbabwe, or Argentina to see if they still have faith in their local currency.

Government scam people with inflation, they steal the value of the people's money. if that is not an scam then i don't know what it is.

So what about USD? It is also currency and has been the world currency for over 100 years. What is happening in Venezuela, Zimbabwe or Argentina is because governments are corrupt, corrupt, and do not think about their people. But not all governments are like that.

You are still living under their management, without them, where would you get a job, where would you get daily consumer products, or your safety...Governments aren't perfect, but without them you wouldn't be able to survive. Bitcoin is just a financial game, it will bring profit to some people but will also take money from some people, money from one person to another. Nothing is perfect in this world, man.

albert0bsd

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Quote from: LittleBitFunny on October 31, 2023, 11:22:55 AM

Quote from: albert0bsd on October 30, 2023, 05:46:29 PM

It is a legal ponzi Shocked

All the bankers are the top of the piramire and all outside of it are paying with inflation.

If it really is a ponzi and you think the government created it to scam you, you should stop using fiat and stay away from it. But if you continue to use it and still can't live without it, don't just talk bad about it.

I am trying to do that, i am exchanging almost all my fiat for bitcoin. I can't do it 100%, but i am trying.

Fiat still have value because most people still believe that their money will have value tomorrow.. but ask about that to some people in Venezuela Zimbabwe, or Argentina to see if they still have faith in their local currency.

Government scam people with inflation, they steal the value of the people's money. if that is not an scam then i don't know what it is.

Mauser

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

This doesn't sound right to me; Fiat money is not a ponzi scheme because it resembles the economic output of a country. The government ensures the strength of their Fiat currency by the potential tax income they can generate in a country. As long as a country has natural resources to sell, or advanced products to export there is a strong value in the currency. It sounds a bit like you are confusing the high inflation we face at the moment with a ponzi scheme. It's not like everybody is losing at the moment, people with a well-paying job that got a decent raise to offset the inflation are happy and look forward to their Christmas bonus. A ponzi scheme would mean that the Fiat currency is worthless eventually because too many people got promised things that weren't true, but I don't see this happening in the big Fiat currencies like Euro or the Dollar.

benalexis12

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Quote from: CryptoHeadlineNews on November 02, 2023, 05:26:42 PM

Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

Bitcoin became popular during the era when we had a whole lot of Ponzi schemes in the country where I come from, (2017-2019), and as such, it is very okay if Bitcoin may have been mistaken for one of these Ponzi scheme due to the writer's lack of knowledge about what Bitcoin is, how it works and what makes it unique and different from the rest Ponzi schemes that came and ran away with people's hard earn money.
Henceforth, I don't see in any way how is fiat now a Ponzi, as it's literally not an investment scheme who robs Peter to pay Paul.

What you said is true. In those early years you mentioned, even if we say that many bad scammers took advantage of the ignorance of the majority who entered the crypto space, it cannot be denied that the name bitcoin quickly became resounding or noisy because of the Ponzi schemes used here.

Apparently the Ponzi scheme has added to the average popularity of Bitcoin, though it is known for its poor technique. So many people did not have a good impression of Bitcoin either. Its bad image was only reduced when they saw the value of Bitcoin rising in the market.

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat.

This is so untrue. You don't necessarily lose money with fiat. Yes, with fiat, they keep on printing new money and adding to what is already existing which then adds to the drop in value, However, Ponzi is an investment scheme and it never lasts long. It is always built on nothing but a cycle of people who eventually get unfortunate. On the other hand, fiat is issued by governments and central banks and It has value because these authorities declare it to be legal tender for conducting transactions and settling debts. Unlike Ponzi, fiat is backed by the trust and stability of the government that issues it; it doesn't rely on a continuous inflow of new investors or participants to maintain its cycle.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

Bitcoin became popular during the era when we had a whole lot of Ponzi schemes in the country where I come from, (2017-2019), and as such, it is very okay if Bitcoin may have been mistaken for one of these Ponzi scheme due to the writer's lack of knowledge about what Bitcoin is, how it works and what makes it unique and different from the rest Ponzi schemes that came and ran away with people's hard earn money.
Henceforth, I don't see in any way how is fiat now a Ponzi, as it's literally not an investment scheme who robs Peter to pay Paul.

BitcoinTurk

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Local currencies are controlled by a single central authority and don't have any maximum supply or reserve requirements. This, of course means that local currencies carry risks but it would not be right to make an analogy with the Ponzi system. Yes, one day this system will change and perhaps fiat currency will disappear from our lives completely but in this case I still think it isn't right to compare it to a ponzi system.

On the other hand, when we think of fiat currencies it shouldn't be forgotten that although there is a possibility that they may lose value, their supply is increased to an unlimited extent because they are controlled by a single central authority. In other words, since the probability of the value of fiat currencies being equal to zero in today's conditions is very low, there doesn't seem to be a point where this system will be blocked, just like the Ponzi system.

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