Isn't Fiat the Real Ponzi - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

ZAINmalik75

hero member

Activity: 1218

Merit: 595

Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

I think governments are the ones that make money out of it because they release funds into circulation that are pegged to some other form of valuable asset like gold or dollars. Which means if they are releasing 100k PKR, which is my local currency, then it means it is backed by the same amount of gold that can be bought with 100k PKR, and when that money is given to the public or to some single individual, the amount will go up or decrease due to inflation, but due to the inflation, that gold, which they still have, will be making them money.

And if the fiat system is really manipulative, then they might buy gold or dollars after issuing the local currency, but only in a manipulative way because, literally, that's not possible.

At the end, I don't think Fiat is really a Ponzi scheme because Fiat is not something new and it has been among us from the very start, and it really made our lives easier. At first, we had to give some kind of product or service in exchange for one, but now I don't have to get a skill that can help others so others can exchange it with me. I can simply give them Fiat to make them do their work, and they can pay me to do their job.

Twentyonepaylots

sr. member

Activity: 1848

Merit: 370

Quote from: btc78 on October 31, 2023, 03:56:43 AM

a ponzi scheme is built on promises with no strong revenue,,

Ponzi scheme comes with strong revenue at first then collapses after some time.

Quote from: btc78 on October 31, 2023, 03:56:43 AM

but fiat money are regulated by banks with actual revenue like investments and projects in short banks always have a way to pay current holders even with no new deposits that is just not the same with a ponzi scheme that will collapse once there is no new investors

You cannot compare money and ponzi scheme basically, because money is a centralized currency within any country unlike ponzi which is a scheme or a method of getting revenue from new investors, technically a fraud. Fiat is governed, you cannot magically changes its value and ponzi is an ultimate magic of quick rich and quick burn.

If fiat is ponzi, so then the crypto which is powered by fiat as well.

Lida93

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 529

According to oxford it is a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a non-existent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

Critically examining that definition it's doesn't present fiat as a Ponzi scheme, not the less, fiat suffers a harsh limitation on the grounds that it doesn't possess resistance against inflation. When inflation hits fiat becomes helpless concurrently losing value while price of goods and services rises.

It's unfortunate that at periods of inflation hit the government pushes the burden on the citizens by raising interest rates and taxes stead of galvanizing better solutions that would suppress and subside the effects of inflation and in all of these the banks are not exception being a tool in the hand of the government.

salad daging

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 791

Bitcoin To The Moon 📈📈📈

Unlike that, fiat is not a ponzi scheme and only people who hate fiat would say that because they see high inflation year after year.

I know how people are now burdened by inflation while foodstuffs are always soaring high their income is not proportional to the inflation rate even though the government always provides solutions to this but never thinks about how their income was before, as a result many people cannot afford to buy basic necessities with the money they get may only be mediocre.

It is actually difficult to fight the government to tell the truth because they have regulated the continuous printing of money.

uneng

hero member

Activity: 2030

Merit: 777

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

I think so. And money printing is the fuel of this ponzi scheme. Anyway, it's a kind of ponzi scheme we are forced to join, different from every other ponzi schemes that attract the attention only from greedy and naive investors. Fiat is an institutional ponzi scheme ran by governments to keep an unsustainable economy working. In order to do that, they have to sacrifice common citizens who don't even know how their economical systems work.

harapan

sr. member

Activity: 1652

Merit: 298

Fiat money is not to be seen as ponzi but as scams and fraud. They are only backed by the government and securities. Fiat currencies are not sound source of money because of all these attributes they have.
They are after power and control as they monitor how money comes in and goes.
They can't not be snubbed for we all need fiat currencies even if people think they don't need fiat money. Government policies and banks are the real ponzi.

Captain Corporate

hero member

Activity: 1974

Merit: 575

Technically speaking fiat is "I have the money, and you can use this money as I see fit" by the governments. Its not that you actually have it, you have a piece of paper that says that you are allowed to use it, so its definitely a ponzi without a shred of doubt. Governments figured that out years ago, because back in the day gold was what people used for payments, and then people would get piece of paper showing how much gold they have in vaults, and over time it became not connected to gold, so right now people just use paper that is backed by nothing, and they do not actually own it neither, they just have the right to exchange it. Get gold, get bitcoin, get real estate, get something that actually worths something.

dothebeats

legendary

Activity: 3542

Merit: 1352

Cashback 15%

If you know how the banks and the governments work, you will start to think that they are indeed running a Ponzi scheme.

Imagine the governments creating bonds, selling it to banks, then the banks selling it to the fed reserve for a profit. This bonds is just 'promises' at best--a glorified IOU that carries no monetary weight to us mere citizens but to them, it is something. The fed reserve pays this bond through IOUs, again, and whatever the difference is, that's the money that is created out of thin air. The cycle goes on and on and on, and the burden is passed on to the tax-paying citizens. It will eventually implode, but unlike Ponzi schemes, the perpetrators don't go to jail - they get bailed out to carry on the cycle for years to come.

Here is a good short description of how this Ponzi scheme works: https://www.7thgenerationdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Fiat-Currency-Pyramid-Scheme-Diagram.pdf

DVlog

full member

Activity: 476

Merit: 212

Tontogether | Save Smart & Win Big

The current monetary system is not fully transparent and is partially fraudulent. At first you have to understand what your paper bill represents. If you have a 100 INR then that means this 100 INR is backed by some assets held by the central bank that are worth that much (they can be reserve currencies, bonds, physical assets etc). Usually a country's supply should be fully backed but this doesn't happen.

Contrary banking systems use fractional reserve systems to circulate more money than they have. Suppose you have 1000 INR in your savings account in a bank The bank will use 90% of that balance of 900 INR to give loans and keep 10% as reserves. Now that the borrower who takes a 900 INR loan deposits this money into his savings account so bank gets another 900 INR from which they keep 10% as reserve and use 90% to give the loan. Now banks net worth is 1000+900 = 1900 INR when it is backed by 1000 INR. This process continues indefinitely. A partial reserve system gives banks the power to generate money from thin air and keep circulating money that they don't have. This thing seems fraudulent, but it is what it is.

avikz

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1500

Quote from: Baghdad on October 30, 2023, 04:43:02 PM

I've seen many blog posts describing bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, but looking at the current inflation of fiat it now looks like a Ponzi. Don't know who is the beneficiary in this kind of fiat Ponzi. The earlier generation had enough to buy with few amounts that can't buy anything reasonable today. I also saw Elon in a tweet saying or calling fiat a Ponzi scheme. People suffer to get fiat and lose it on high food prices and products. In a Ponzi, everyone end up losing money, same with fiat. A good number of people around me complain of not being able to purchase product with a fair sum of money they feel is big.

Neither fiat nor bitcoin is ponzi. People will say multiple things but that doesn't make it true. I remember back in 2014 one of the big politicians in my country claimed Bitcoin as a ponzi scheme in the parliament. Such kind of statements come from ignorance and no knowledge.

Fiat money is not ponzi either. Without Fiat how would you derive the value of a cryptocurrency? Without Fiat how would you conduct the local businesses?

jeha2015

full member

Activity: 548

Merit: 167

Play Bitcoin PVP Prediction Game

As I understand it, Money is like a Knife. On the one hand, it is useful for cutting this and that (transactions within a country) but on the other hand it can kill.

Because historically, haven't the global elite and their bankers created a Ponzi scheme, where money, which is essentially just numbers, is used as a vehicle to employ people throughout the world to enrich them (a small group)?

KingsDen

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1024

Hello Leo! You can still win.

Quote from: Strongkored on October 31, 2023, 02:41:57 AM

Ponzi is not the right word to apply to fiat, indeed fiat will always experience a decrease in value but that is because of inflation and we will not be able to fight inflation by saving as much fiat as possible because no matter how much money you have in the next year or in other future years its value will keeps going down, so that you don't get stressed and end up saying that fiat is a Ponzi, then start by investing in the type of investment that can give you a better life in the future even though inflation continues to rise in your country.

The writer does not literally mean that fiat is a Ponzi scheme, rather he meant that fiat posseses an attribute of a Ponzi scheme which is its ability to make you lose money. Or its tendency to reward early commerce at the expense of late commers. When you look at this more carefully it is correct.

What the holders of fiat currency were able to buy 10 years ago, the holders of the same amount of fiat will not be able to buy those things now. Inflation has grown to a very large extent and to finally justify the Ponzi mantra, the government will keep printing more fiat into the system.

LittleBitFunny

full member

Activity: 1428

Merit: 129

The first decentralized crypto betting platform

Quote from: albert0bsd on October 30, 2023, 05:46:29 PM

It is a legal ponzi Shocked

All the bankers are the top of the piramire and all outside of it are paying with inflation.

If it really is a ponzi and you think the government created it to scam you, you should stop using fiat and stay away from it. But if you continue to use it and still can't live without it, don't just talk bad about it.

Fiat has many disadvantages and cannot be compared to bitcoin. I know you're trying to say this, but there's no denying that we're still using fiat money every day, and today we couldn't survive without it. We should stop bad-mouthing it, because it's like when you go out with someone but still talk bad about them behind their back.

Fiat has limitations and we have bitcoin to overcome those limitations, but it is still essential to us, so what we need to do is balance the two.

freedomgo

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1144

While we may have a preference for Bitcoin over fiat currency, it's essential to clarify that neither of them is a Ponzi scheme. To address this question, it's important to have a clear understanding of what a Ponzi scheme is.

So here's the definition fromwebster.com/dictionary.

Quote

: an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks

Fiat isn't an investment, bitcoin is an alternative currency and could be an investment but it's not a "investment swindle " so the answer for your question is no.

slapper

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1096

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Amazingly, people who say Bitcoin is like a Ponzi scheme don't seem to notice how similar the two are in our present fiat system. Fiat currency inflation is a clear sign that the system is broken. Though people work hard all day and night to make money, their money is losing value, their ability to buy things is decreasing, and prices are skyrocketing. The constant loop of winning and losing is literally disastrous

The answer is right in front of us, which is pretty amazing. Using digital assets like Bitcoin, which have limited supply and can't be printed for no reason, can drastically change this path of exploitation. Value is kept safe in a transparent and decentralized financial environment that Bitcoin creates. We need to think about the potential of cryptocurrencies and rethink how much we depend on traditional banking systems

Wakhid Mukti

full member

Activity: 532

Merit: 105

Play Bitcoin PVP Prediction Game

Quote from: odolvlobo on October 31, 2023, 03:37:11 AM

Money itself cannot be a Ponzi scheme because it does not generate a return. Bitcoin is money. It does not generate a return so it can't be a Ponzi scheme.

Ponzi schemes are usually synonymous with unpredictable returns and the general system is multi-level marketing. In this system there will be victims, namely new members. And the one who benefits the most is the owner or the person at the highest level. Meanwhile, Satoshi has never cashed out his Bitcoin and it is still stored in his wallet, but he doesn't know whether Satoshi still has his wallet's password or not. Finally Satoshi lost control of his email.

Promocodeudo

full member

Activity: 392

Merit: 185

Play Bitcoin PVP Prediction Game

Fiat can never be Ponzi, you can say that it is been dealt with by inflation and this is because of the Government's poor policies, if not for the economic woes that have befallen many nations, we can do without fiat, for us to purchase anything in our locality we need fiat do such, to an extent fiat has its advantage and we can do without it, a Ponzi is a scam but fiat unless you are taking in terms of printing if fake currency by individuals, the Government is exempted in this act, you can also say that fiat is regulated and this is because it is in control of the Government and its institutions, you have to consider so many features of money before you can pronounce it to be a Ponzi, money being a Ponzi is no for me.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3444

Merit: 10558

Fiat on itself is not a Ponzi scheme some economies of certain countries are Ponzi schemes though.
The best match is the United States economy that has been a Ponzi scheme for some years now. They keep printing money out of thin air and sell it to any idiot (including countries) who would buy that debt so that they can cover their ever increasing expenses and cover the massive budget deficits. Then because of interest rates they get themselves deeper into debt so they print more money to pay that debt too hence turning the whole thing into a Ponzi scheme.

This is exactly why the biggest fear that US regime has is dedollarisation!

so98nn

hero member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 603

I disagree. Fiat is not ponzi if it holds real value and is able to buy you things with it. Fiat is being run by the government and on top of that we understand how it works. Everything is valued in denominations of fiat as per the countries, you work to earn, you then circulate it in the market as an exchange value and you get products-services in return. The perfect product and services are valued just about right as per that year's economic conditions in the market. Let us not get into inflation and deflation in this conversion but it is evident that fiat survives the worst and those who hold it the most are always securing their lifestyle.

If you even look at the history of mankind then there were different ways of exchanging things. From stones to vegetables, from stone-carved coins to gold coins, and other merchandise mankind has seen everything. Today we are in modern economics, we have high-value fiat notes and coins with the security of reserve banks. There is also more authentication as compared to what our older mankind had. There are hundreds of things to think about before we can call this as ponzi.

Hispo

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 2025

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

I have heard and read before that some people suggest the whole Fiat system is nothing but a huge Ponzi scheme, but I generally tend to disagree with such comparison.
If there is something within the FIAT instruments in the ecosystem of the financial instruments in USA is the treasury bonds and the debt acquired by the United States, which seemingly can only be paid with the money of new investors and the approval of the congress to print more money or acquire even more debt to pay old investors.
It sounds like a Ponzi, but there are several differences: the Federal Reserve will never run out of money and the government of USA could eventually close the gab of their spending deficit, so they can slowly start paying their investors fully what they are owned.

Topic: Isn't Fiat the Real Ponzi - page 3. (Read 482 times)