Topic: Isn't Fiat the Real Ponzi - page 2. (Read 582 times)

Not the definition of a Ponzi but it is the definition of a scam.

a scam would be the master set

a ponzi scheme is a subset of it.

Whatever you country is I am sure you leaders are scamming but not via ponzi.  It is a subtle difference.

By now it has become obvious that all countries are just kicking the can down the road. making all fiat worth less with bigger inflation on the picture.

Correct. Fiat is not a Ponzi, it only reduces value due to inflation but is not a form of Ponzi scheme. The way Ponzi works is by definition completely a scam where if you are not caught holding worthless fiat when everyone realizes that fiat is just useless paper, not much different from useless paper. But so far fiat is useful for transactions within a country. Yes the way fiat works is a little bad at the moment because creating new money to pay back old debt promises sustainable economic growth. Hence the presence of bitcoin as an alternative to fiat.

People whom claim that bitcoin is a ponzi typically have absolutely NO CLUE about it and how it works.  I work in finance so bitcoin comes up a good bit in conversation.  The last few people I've spoken with about bitcoin who claimed it to be a scam had no clue either.  I simply ask this "do you know what the blockchain is?"..typically I get a "no, I don't" which I respond with "then you have no right to call bitcoin a scam/ponzi as you're not even versed on how it actually works".

Fiat money in many ways is a scam.  The fact the the central banks can print as much money as they want is a serious issue.

Bitcoin has not been accepted in the whole world so you still need fiat to exchange bitcoin before you can us e it unless you front the country that have legalized bitcoin as the legal tender. I don't think that theory of fiat being the Ponzi is correct because in Ponzi you are not getting anything in return and you lost your money like that but in fiat you exchange the money with something but in higher price.

I think the inflation is affecting everyone plus the bitcoiners since we can't use bitcoin to buy whatever we want, we must change the bitcoin to fiat first before we can buy things so for now we can't just call fiat as Ponzi. Though the capitalist (business owners) exploiting us from the Fiat Currencies and that is why they fighting bitcoin to be stopped by it is too late for them.

Fiat is not a ponzi, because it's what we have been using before bitcoin arrives, now we discovered that bitcoin is more needed than the way we all opt in for fiat after realizing all we are missing already, fiat is just a traditional currency, everyone can have access to use and there's a lot of scam and intransparencies in using it, bitcoin now is taking over and people are realizing the fact that it's only the alternative to fiat, but the central authorities wouldn't want that because of loss in power, they now have to create diversion in calling bitcoin all manners of names.

I've always want to be this cruel with Fiat currencies but we can't call them ponzis because they are really not, you can't do anything with Ponzi honestly,  or can you? Since the government is backing up the Fiat why is it Ponzi? That will just make you look stupid, because it the end of the day we really can't do without Fiat.

Even as I invested all my Fiat into Bitcoin to avoid inflation I will still need to swap some part of it back into Fiat for me to use in the real world, off online, so Fiat is really not a Ponzi it won't be working still if it's truly a Ponzi.

The only thing that's bad about Fiat is the inflation part and also the centralization power and rulers behind it, there are other Ponzi scheme that the government are using to take from the public, and it's even available in the region aspect too, but Fiat itself is a important in the world.

Fiat is a proof of protection, it is a derivative (aka a receipt, a piece of paper written and is valid proof to show that you earn/pay it, obviously it is worthless piece of paper, but backed by a trust, a trust that you are protected now!) created by the lord of the tribe, the lord of the tribe is biggest bully and rule the land with brute force, you exchange your valuable harvest to fiat to receive protection. When you are being confronted by the bully again, as long as you can reveal the fiat to the bully, they would let you go totally unharmed, but occasionally the bully would confiscate your fiat because they deemed you no longer worthy to receive protection anymore, so you have to earn your protection again by working hard for it. So you would pay for protection over and over again in your entire life, without protection you would live in fear, and your property getting invade left and right, your wife and kids getting kidnapped and held hostages, also the protection has very short expiration, it only last for few weeks at best, until the next payrolls if you don't quickly pay the protection your entire life would quickly turn to shit since you are totally unprotected and getting invaded and crops and land destroyed by tribe members of the bully, so you must keep paying the protection over and over your entire life and pray hard you would be protected until your last breath. Also the bully now decide to create nuclear bomb, if you insist and don't pay the protection you would be full of regrets! You would get nuked into dust, the bully now no longer fancy kidnapping woman and kids as hostage since it is too abundant.

What is the difference? But even if some consider it, we shouldn't deny the fact that it was still helpful and it's not bad as the real scam because you can not get anything out of them but they are only the ones who will get money out of you. Yes, fiat money is not a source of money even though it is also a money. What source of money mean is your daily job.

A business, being a trader, investor, or anything which produces you money can also be considered as that. We are now on the era where cryptocurrencies have existed and some of them are decentralized, so it is now possible for us to not rely on the government's/banks' own creation which is fiat.

Fiat only reduce in it value of purchase both you have something to quantify with what you have in fiat but Ponzi is as good as scam. With Ponzi no value is placed but anguish, fiat can be made more valuable by more investment and diversification is a sure way to help reduce the harsh effect on you. Don't rely on Ponzi because it is all a bubble waiting to burst but fiat always will have something to measure with.

A Ponzi scheme takes money from people to pay other people and it does not generate any income from that system. Fiat currencies are printed by the government, so they are not taking the money from the people to pay the people... they simply print it out of thin air.

Yes, it creates problems like hyper inflation and the general public suffer as a result of that, but you cannot call it a Ponzi scheme. The same can be said about Bitcoin, because Bitcoin are created from "code" and it does not generate any income other than the increase in the value over time.

People should properly research the working of a Ponzi scheme, before they start spreading nonsense like this. 

Seems yes, fiat looks like the Ponzi scheme we ever heard before. The dollar is the king of Ponzi scheme because they can print it like they print paper. We know, too many fiat out there don't have underlying anything. The government always backs up it and tells if the fiat money is safe for use to use forever. Sometime ago, before 1971, where the dollar still have gold as underlying, I still believe it (dollar). But, after Nixon closed the gold as undelying dollar, I never believe fiat money anymore, why we have to believe the goverment and fed?.

Your comments are valid, but fiat is not a Ponzi scheme; if it were, we would have all been labelled as scam victims for the whole period that we have used fiat currency. The government backs fiat currency, and fraudsters back a Ponzi scheme. So, what's the connection here? You'll believe me when I say they have nothing to do with each other. There are other unlawful ways that fiat is employed, but the government nevertheless defends its own from being exploited or misused and always wants it to stand out among all currencies, especially against its most formidable competitor, digital currency (bitcoin).

Argentina and Turkey have just had their currency disbarred from shop used by a little company called Valve who are international but no longer willing to run to keep up with a standard of value that is entirely compromised.    Its actually true of maybe a dozen currencies that they are potentially unable to honor all calls to repay debt but those two countries are the most obvious with inflation over 100%
  Valve is only a gaming company so it is quite ironic they would be the ones to declare this form of FIAT unpayable.   The opposite is also true that if all rules and promises are followed FIAT can be valid currency, what happens is politics devalues money in its own favor.

Your claims are correct, but I do not agree with your point that Fiat is a Ponzi. Inflation and the government monetary system are the causes of all these currency devaluations; nowadays, the money you can use to buy foodstuffs for your upkeep is equivalent to the money you will use to purchase a car or a motorcycle back then, but the government keeps printing money, which caused the devaluation because of its too much availability.
That is why I like the idea behind Bitcoin technology of having a limited supply of Bitcoin, and no one can create fake Bitcoin to defraud people, which is why Bitcoin value keeps increasing.

First, let's find out What is Ponzi? Before we ask such a question, let's also define Fiat so that we can discuss this topic here.

Ponzi is a type of fraudulent investment operation. This is the type of business where the income of the members also comes from what the new members pay; in short, the income is based on recruitment. And often in Ponzi, you will hear promises of a high return on the capital that will be put in by investors, which in this situation should be avoided immediately.

From the OP's perspective, do we need to reconsider what Ponzi is?

First, try asking yourself whether you should invest in fiat or not.Confusing concepts in finance is not the way to connect an issue, and above all, if Elon Musk says that money is sh*t then is it true? More sober than before regardless of statements from someone, and especially Elon Musk, and I think such comparisons are completely disconnected when the nature of fiat operates in connected life and convenience for transactions. More epidemic, as for manipulation or even a type of fiat of a country, it is related to other macro issues such as politics, economics, people,...

After all, we should not get attached to things that have nothing to do with each other. Even bitcoin is misunderstood because we ourselves do not really understand it or have false prejudices.

No, FIAT currency has never offered any benefits... in fact, it has suffered losses due to inflation. I can't see from where you're coming when you label FIAT as a Ponzi scheme. Is this a response to others calling Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme? If you're retaliating in this way, trust me, this isn't the right approach. A Ponzi scheme has no connection to the systems in place for FIAT and Bitcoin. It's all just FUD created by people who can't appreciate Bitcoin.

And abusing Elon's name without providing evidence of the statements he has made only makes this statement less valid. Many people are indeed influenced by what Elon says, but unless you can provide a post link from Elon stating that FIAT is a Ponzi scheme, it seems forced. This isn't valid and makes your intentions seem like an attempt to undermine FIAT with FUD as well.

I think you need to get a better understanding of what a ponzi scheme is because the allegation is a bit ridiculous. Trying the "I'm not x, you're x!" defense is pretty childish. Currency has been around since the beginning of time, so people could indirectly trade items - a baker might cook a loaf of bread but a blacksmith might not want a hundred loaves in order to build a horse harness for the mill. Elon manipulates people all the time and few people will be on the same wavelength, he is a multi billionaire and is not relating to the average person. It's in his interest, as he has done many times before, to manipulate - whether for fun or even personal gain, his hordes of blind followers.

I think governments are the ones that make money out of it because they release funds into circulation that are pegged to some other form of valuable asset like gold or dollars. Which means if they are releasing 100k PKR, which is my local currency, then it means it is backed by the same amount of gold that can be bought with 100k PKR, and when that money is given to the public or to some single individual, the amount will go up or decrease due to inflation, but due to the inflation, that gold, which they still have, will be making them money.

And if the fiat system is really manipulative, then they might buy gold or dollars after issuing the local currency, but only in a manipulative way because, literally, that's not possible.

At the end, I don't think Fiat is really a Ponzi scheme because Fiat is not something new and it has been among us from the very start, and it really made our lives easier. At first, we had to give some kind of product or service in exchange for one, but now I don't have to get a skill that can help others so others can exchange it with me. I can simply give them Fiat to make them do their work, and they can pay me to do their job.

Ponzi scheme comes with strong revenue at first then collapses after some time.

You cannot compare money and ponzi scheme basically, because money is a centralized currency within any country unlike ponzi which is a scheme or a method of getting revenue from new investors, technically a fraud. Fiat is governed, you cannot magically changes its value and ponzi is an ultimate magic of quick rich and quick burn.

If fiat is ponzi, so then the crypto which is powered by fiat as well.