Topic: It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 2. (Read 39732 times)
For good or bad we are likely stuck with at least partially securing bitcoin with mining. We may as well try and find solutions to decentralize mining more.
There is not enough reasons to drop POW, miners and the mining industry is a core of bitcoin, and they would never be in favor of such a change, so your dreams stop right there,finito.
Anyways, if the money bleeding out through mining equipement and electricity costs starts hurting bitcoin in some major way, that just means that there is not enough interes and that bitcoin is dying.
Anyways, if the money bleeding out through mining equipement and electricity costs starts hurting bitcoin in some major way, that just means that there is not enough interes and that bitcoin is dying.
Isn't PoS also difficult to achieve if a lot of coins are in cold storage? I mean how do you prove a node has control over a certain stake?
In Nxt this can be done by leasing one account's stake to another account. "Leasing" means the second account is forging as if it owned the first account's stake, but can't spend those coins or do anything else with them other than sign new blocks. The second account has to be online to make and sign new blocks, but that's safe because its own spendable balance is zero. The first account has the balance, but can be offline. The first account needs to create a transaction to tell the block-chain that it is leasing its balance, but that transaction can be created and signed offline and then the signed bytes transferred to an online node to be broadcast, so the first account's passphrase is never entered into a connected computer. It's always air-gapped.Basically, this is a solved problem. It's the sort of thing you can do in a crypto-currency that has persistent accounts and a variety of transaction types.
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
Define fair distribution.
everyone get a chance to have some, equal %, but it is almost impossible to achieve
We can say there isn't a fair distribution in both the algo. PoW and PoS. The problem is always the curiosity and confidence in that "coin", I am sure all we know there were a lot of users sold 20-30k bitcoin at 2 dollars due the "confidence". So it is not a problem of the algo at the end.... it is impossible to create a perfect algo >> coin.
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
Define fair distribution.
everyone get a chance to have some, equal %, but it is almost impossible to achieve
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
Do you really think there is no problem in bitcoin's initial distribution?
The early adopt always can get more cheap coins.
Hi, but we are here talk about switch pow to POS, so initial distribution is not a problem.
The distribution of bitcoin is completed.
it was different back then, because bitcoin was worthless, you can't really compare like that, now any new pos coin acquire a good value from launch(well not right now, because everything is died)
also bitcoin initial distribution was really good, people should blame themselves for not trusting it at that time(many did know about bitcoin in 2009 but they have not downloaded the client, because they thought that it was a virus or something...)
people just ignored bitcoin, so it's not really bitcoin fault
That's a good point, people often say Bitcoins are worth nothing but what people are prepared to pay for them without considering how much electricity it costs to generate them. However, if nobody is prepared to buy them the difficulty, and cost of electricity needed to generate them, drops until people are prepared to buy them again.
OK - feels like we go round in circles..
..
It is definitely NOT time to switch off POW..
Here's why.
Let us 'assume' that it is possible to solve the problem of distributed consensus using a POS chain. OK? Let's take that as a given (whether it is or is not..)
NOW - Here is the thing that some people simply don't understand..
Bitcoin DOES NOT derive it's value from the fact it solves the Distributed Consensus problem.
Bitcoin derives it's value from the energy the miners HAVE TO expend MINING the coins out of pure maths (And thus solving the DC problem one way). This sets a price floor.
POS - has some very useful properties, I love POS, BUT IT IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR POW.
Anyone, ANYONE, can copy / set up a POS network with EXACTLY the same features and SECURITY for nothing basically. This means that the POS network will have to value it's coins differently. Value them based on what they pay out, like dividends for a share (STAKE) in a company, for instance.
And actually - if you were to run a Blockchain system for Company governance, POS makes MUCH MORE SENSE than POW. There are definitely times when POS trumps POW, no question. But NOT FOR EVERY TASK.
POS vs POW ? They are 2 different animals, that solve a problem, in VERY different ways. They are not just interchangeable..
Don't you see ?
..
It is definitely NOT time to switch off POW..
Here's why.
Let us 'assume' that it is possible to solve the problem of distributed consensus using a POS chain. OK? Let's take that as a given (whether it is or is not..)
NOW - Here is the thing that some people simply don't understand..
Bitcoin DOES NOT derive it's value from the fact it solves the Distributed Consensus problem.
Bitcoin derives it's value from the energy the miners HAVE TO expend MINING the coins out of pure maths (And thus solving the DC problem one way). This sets a price floor.
POS - has some very useful properties, I love POS, BUT IT IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR POW.
Anyone, ANYONE, can copy / set up a POS network with EXACTLY the same features and SECURITY for nothing basically. This means that the POS network will have to value it's coins differently. Value them based on what they pay out, like dividends for a share (STAKE) in a company, for instance.
And actually - if you were to run a Blockchain system for Company governance, POS makes MUCH MORE SENSE than POW. There are definitely times when POS trumps POW, no question. But NOT FOR EVERY TASK.
POS vs POW ? They are 2 different animals, that solve a problem, in VERY different ways. They are not just interchangeable..
Don't you see ?
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
Do you really think there is no problem in bitcoin's initial distribution?
The early adopt always can get more cheap coins.
Hi, but we are here talk about switch pow to POS, so initial distribution is not a problem.
The distribution of bitcoin is completed.
There is no incentive to run full nodes for POW while POS knocks two birds with one stone.
There is always POI (Proof-Of-Importance)
There is always POI (Proof-Of-Importance)
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
Define fair distribution.
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
the problem with pos is the initial distribution, it can be cheated so easily , like happened to faircoin, communitycoin ecc...
they must find a very transparent and fair initial distribution
I'm sorry but I just don't see any way this happens. Getting rid of PoW would mean that all the big miners lose their investments in ASICS. Since the miners effectively control what happens to Bitcoin, there is just no way. Maybe if the Foundation was stronger, but unless there is a way for the miners to be made whole in any shift, it just is not going to happen.
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
Depends on the POS.
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
but pow isn't really the problem, at the best they are dumping 2k-3k coins, this amount can't do nothing to the market, even if it is every day, also the heat generated can be used for something useful, not a total waste in the end
the real problems are
early adopters(and their manipulation)
not enough adoption(because of security)
Why do you think (Proof-of-Research) for Gridcoin will be a fail?
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
What do you want ?
Proof of Idle or Proof of Burn
So far i know, Proof of burn (PoB) is the best alternate to replace Proof of work (Proof of work)
Gridcoin use POR (Proof-of-Research), but i think it'll be fail
more info : http://themerkle.com/news/gridcoin-cryptocurrency-scientific-distributed-computing/
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
What do you want ?
Proof of Idle or Proof of Burn
So far i know, Proof of burn (PoB) is the best alternate to replace Proof of work (Proof of work)
Gridcoin use POR (Proof-of-Research), but i think it'll be fail
more info : http://themerkle.com/news/gridcoin-cryptocurrency-scientific-distributed-computing/
How about www.gridcoin.us ?
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
Agreed. What would you propose instead? PoS mining is even more a game of the rich, since it effectively by definition is the epitome of plutocracy!
Yes, PoW mining just waste too much energy, and the most important thing is mining is become a game between rich people who can afford buy the Asic miners. Everyone can mine bitcoin is out of date.
I m not in favor for complete elimination of PoW.
It all started with PoW and this system still work great proving security for many networks. On the other hand, combining PoW, PoS and any other option s something I like to see.
It all started with PoW and this system still work great proving security for many networks. On the other hand, combining PoW, PoS and any other option s something I like to see.
Combine them? How would you do that? I don't know... Isn't PoS also difficult to achieve if a lot of coins are in cold storage? I mean how do you prove a node has control over a certain stake?
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