Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 151.

TheFuneral

sr. member

Activity: 356

Merit: 250

Quote from: dooglus on September 23, 2013, 08:19:47 PM

....
I'm quite tempted to just give up on this whole thing. It looks like the site is simply at nakowa's mercy. He's promised me in the past that he won't play any more, but never sticks to his word. So what do I do? Continue to let the investors take these horrific losses?

I don't think it's fair to take down the site, but I also don't think it's fair for people to be mad at you when they lose. It's not your fault. Sadly I assume the latter will keep happening.

maqifrnswa

sr. member

Activity: 454

Merit: 252

Quote from: dooglus on September 23, 2013, 08:19:47 PM

So what do I do? Continue to let the investors take these horrific losses?

Barring cheating, it is what it is. JD is a high-risk gambling site. Variance increases when someone comes by with a bigger bankroll than JD. I'm down 20%, but I know what I'm getting myself into and that this could happen. Keep on running the business, improve features - try to attract more whales. I'll take my shots.

jabetizo

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 101

Quote from: dooglus on September 23, 2013, 08:19:47 PM

So what do I do? Continue to let the investors take these horrific losses?

yes, nobody is forced to invest or stay invested.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

For what it's worth, here are the profit charts. Notice that for almost all of today's session he was down. Then he quit while ahead, as usual:

As for the calls to "change something", if he's cheating then limiting the maximum bet won't stop him winning, and if he isn't cheating and is just lucky then limiting the maximum bet will only slow his inevitable losses. I don't see how it helps in either case.

One thing that I can change that will protect investors is whether the site is up or not. If I take it down they won't lose any more. But I suspect that most investors wouldn't like that decision. They want the site to stay up so they can win their coins back again. The ones who want this to end have the option already of divesting.

I'm quite tempted to just give up on this whole thing. It looks like the site is simply at nakowa's mercy. He's promised me in the past that he won't play any more, but never sticks to his word. So what do I do? Continue to let the investors take these horrific losses?

rigel

legendary

Activity: 1240

Merit: 1001

Thank God I'm an atheist

Where are you Dooglus?

Any comments on what's going on?

Do you think he found an exploit or is just very lucky?

GreenBits

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1048

Quote from: Lohoris on September 23, 2013, 06:22:40 PM

Quote from: Bugpowder on September 23, 2013, 05:42:01 PM

Of course it is simple. When Dooglus provides me an updated total betting history of nakowa, we can do a shuffle analysis and see for real. Last time I did it when he was up 4000 BTC, it was around 7% chance.

5% chance is 1/20.
Many people here will be familiar with dice.
Roll a 20 sided dice, get a 20 --> 5% chance.
You know, it happens.
He critted just-dice.

nah, Just-Dice rolled a natural 1..

galbros

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

+1 Peter R

This is exactly the type of analysis that explains what is going on. IIRC he was down 4K coins at least three times today but kept going until he made his target number.

For individual investors I guess the trick would be to divest when he is down a lot. Of course, you have to be on when he's playing to do that.

As for the site as a whole I guess it is wait for the big loss, but at this point, he may be willing to lose even more than 10K coins.

addi

hero member

Activity: 626

Merit: 500

https://satoshibet.com

Quote from: Stunna on September 23, 2013, 07:16:45 PM

I think this is irresponsible at this point, max bet should be lowered to protect investors in my opinion. Even though j-d is my competition it is distressing to see their profit fall lower and lower every day. My advice is to lower max bet or increase edge or both. Also, doog should explore the possibility that nakowa has found some sort of exploit.

When situations like this occur it is important to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to prevent further losses like this. Changes should have been made a while ago in my opinion.

couldn't agree more

Stunna

legendary

Activity: 3192

Merit: 1279

Primedice.com, Stake.com

I think this is irresponsible at this point, max bet should be lowered to protect investors in my opinion. Even though j-d is my competition it is distressing to see their profit fall lower and lower every day. My advice is to lower max bet or increase edge or both. Also, doog should explore the possibility that nakowa has found some sort of exploit.

When situations like this occur it is important to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to prevent further losses like this. Changes should have been made a while ago in my opinion.

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Lohoris on September 23, 2013, 06:38:40 PM

Quote from: Peter R on September 23, 2013, 06:33:02 PM

Some thoughts on the whale's win today (conclusion: he had a 67% chance of pulling it off).

The whale can STOP betting when he chooses, so the probability of what happened today is not as low as it seems. I haven't dug up the exact numbers, but let's assume:

1. He wanted to win 2500 BTC (after which point he would stop gambling)
2. He was willing to go down as much as 10,000 BTC before giving up
3. He was betting 200 BTC each time and always attempting to 2X his bet (this just simplifies the simulation).

I ran the following Mathematica code:

In[6]=
bankroll := 10000;
target := 2500;
n := 10000;

bet := If[Random[] > .505, 1, -1]

outcomes = Table[profit = 0;
While[profit < target && bankroll > -profit, profit += 200 * bet ];
If[profit > 0, 1., 0], {n}];

100 * (Plus @@ outcomes)/ n

Out[6]= 67.23

So, 67% of the times that he applies this strategy he would earn his 2500BTC target before going bust.

This is a very interesting take.

Unrelated fun fact: while I don't think he's cheating, it is worth noticing that if he was cheating, then pretending to be victim of a gambler's fallacy (like he is doing) is actually a great tactic to go unnoticed.

I agree. As long as we can't statistically prove that he is cheating, to within let's say p < 0.01, then he could continue cheating Wink

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: chriswen on September 23, 2013, 06:47:24 PM

So, 67% of the time he wins 2500 btc. 33% of the time he loses 10,000 btc.

Yes, I believe so. His expected return is still negative (as required if he is not cheating): 0.67 * 2500 BTC - 0.33 * 10,000 BTC = -1625 BTC.

Of course the exact probabilities depend on how much he is willing to lose, and we don't know that for sure yet!

chriswen

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

So, 67% of the time he wins 2500 btc. 33% of the time he loses 10,000 btc.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Peter R on September 23, 2013, 06:33:02 PM

Some thoughts on the whale's win today (conclusion: he had a 67% chance of pulling it off).

The whale can STOP betting when he chooses, so the probability of what happened today is not as low as it seems. I haven't dug up the exact numbers, but let's assume:

1. He wanted to win 2500 BTC (after which point he would stop gambling)
2. He was willing to go down as much as 10,000 BTC before giving up
3. He was betting 200 BTC each time and always attempting to 2X his bet (this just simplifies the simulation).

I ran the following Mathematica code:

In[6]=
bankroll := 10000;
target := 2500;
n := 10000;

bet := If[Random[] > .505, 1, -1]

outcomes = Table[profit = 0;
While[profit < target && bankroll > -profit, profit += 200 * bet ];
If[profit > 0, 1., 0], {n}];

100 * (Plus @@ outcomes)/ n

Out[6]= 67.23

So, 67% of the times that he applies this strategy he would earn his 2500BTC target before going bust.

This is a very interesting take.

Unrelated fun fact: while I don't think he's cheating, it is worth noticing that if he was cheating, then pretending to be victim of a gambler's fallacy (like he is doing) is actually a great tactic to go unnoticed.

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Some thoughts on the whale's win today (conclusion: he had a 67% chance of pulling it off).

The whale can STOP betting when he chooses, so the probability of what happened today is not as low as it seems. I haven't dug up the exact numbers, but let's assume:

1. He wanted to win 2500 BTC (after which point he would stop gambling)
2. He was willing to go down as much as 10,000 BTC before giving up
3. He was betting 200 BTC each time and always attempting to 2X his bet (this just simplifies the simulation).

I ran the following Mathematica code:

In[6]=
bankroll := 10000;
target := 2500;
n := 10000;

bet := If[Random[] > .505, 1, -1]

outcomes = Table[profit = 0;
While[profit < target && bankroll > -profit, profit += 200 * bet ];
If[profit > 0, 1., 0], {n}];

100 * (Plus @@ outcomes)/ n

Out[6]= 67.23

So, 67% of the times that he applies this strategy he would earn his 2500BTC target before going bust.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Mitchell on September 23, 2013, 06:03:23 PM

Damn. That guy knows how to bet.

Nope.
He's just lucky.
Or he's cheating.
No other options on the table.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Bugpowder on September 23, 2013, 05:42:01 PM

Of course it is simple. When Dooglus provides me an updated total betting history of nakowa, we can do a shuffle analysis and see for real. Last time I did it when he was up 4000 BTC, it was around 7% chance.

5% chance is 1/20.
Many people here will be familiar with dice.
Roll a 20 sided dice, get a 20 --> 5% chance.
You know, it happens.
He critted just-dice.

Mitchell

copper member

Activity: 3948

Merit: 2201

Verified awesomeness ✔

Damn. That guy knows how to bet.

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Well, he does learn people how it feels to be ass raped Wink

-5000 btc in 1 session Shocked

Not a single investor has made any profit since start (with the exception of those that divested on high).

Curious how low investment will go.

romerun

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

He found pattern man it's not like he randomly bets as in simulations

Bugpowder

sr. member

Activity: 394

Merit: 250

Quote from: MikkisJ on September 23, 2013, 05:29:49 PM

Quote from: themagicdrake on September 23, 2013, 05:27:42 PM

Quote from: Bugpowder on September 23, 2013, 05:17:41 PM

Here is a simulation of someone betting the max bet on JD with an unlimited bankroll. After 2,000 max bets, how far up or down might they be? What would be the peak profit during that time? This is relevant for determining how lucky Nakowa is. Nakowa is up about 50 max bets at the moment, off of around 2000 max bets wagered.

so...you're saying there's a chance?

That is a very simplified calculation, that doesn't take into consideration a lot of factors. The probability of what is happening is very very low.

Of course it is simple. When Dooglus provides me an updated total betting history of nakowa, we can do a shuffle analysis and see for real. Last time I did it when he was up 4000 BTC, it was around 7% chance.

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