Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest - page 48. (Read 454823 times)

No, April asked to have hir investment locked.

Guess again. You'll get it next guess I reckon.

That was really solid of y'all.


April?

Please note that if you ask me to lock your investment for a month so that you can't divest it because you don't trust yourself, that is what I will do.

If you come back a week later and say you've changed your mind, it's too late. It's locked for a month, as we agreed.

I will make that clear before locking your investment, and I will stick to the agreed terms.

No amount of begging or whining will change that.

It's more trouble than it's worth to roll back stake rewards once they're paid out.

3 others had already tipped xploited a total of a little over 25 CLAM, so I tipped him 25 CLAM more to make him whole on his mistake.

I vote roll it back and give him his CLAMS back.

Mistakes happen and it's nice enough we are in the position to fix his mistake.

I don't think any other JD investors would be upset about that either.

Ouch, I sent a clam your way... hopefully others join the gesture of goodwill.

I concede my 50 clams on account I should have been sleeping.. not creating raw transactions.

If it hadn't have went to JD it wouldn't even be a question, someone would be up 50 clams.

Lesson learnt!

Invoke golden rule of mistaken fees: "losers weepers finders keepers".

I just checked in on the site and see that it has been paying out staking rewards like crazy:



It turns out we staked a block with a transaction that paid a fee of 50 CLAM. Just-Dice is set to only pay staking rewards out 2 CLAMs at a time if there's more than 5 CLAMs outstanding, else to pay the rest, so that's what it did.

So we've split the 50 CLAM fee, which was presumably paid by mistake, between all the Just-Dice investors. So what now?

Edit: it was xploited's error and he says:

I think it must be. I've not heard about it from anyone else.

Might be my isp or something . It started with some other sites to. Its just rly weird that it gets me to login screen even when i try with full access token link.

Now cant access blockchain.info, poloniex , and some other sites , it must be my isp fuckup.

Tnx for response.

Working fine for me 

Hey is something wrong with just-dice or cloudflare or whatever . For some reason i cant access the site says it cant display page. And sometimes i do get in but it brings me to login screen which never did before it always got me straight to the site. And i menaged to log in once then later it was down again . And i got in once more and got me to log in screen again. Rly weird.

Yeah, thanks Doog for the thorough explanation! Your examples really helped to expound the principles I hadn't gotten my head around.

Thanks, I guess I should read the FAQ a bit better

I was not complaining, btw, just wondering why the commission was so low each week.

Type /supply in the Just-Dice chat tab:

Thanks Doog, I'd been wondering the same thing - I didn't think the average offsite investment was so high, so I didn't realise how diluted my investment would be.

I don't think the site makes it very clear where your profits came from.

Let's look at a random user for an example. This guy hasn't touched his investment for the last couple of months, so things aren't complicated by invest/divest events.

Here's his "investments" report:



And his "commission" report:



Looking at the most recent week, we see his "profit" is shown as 0.00612616 and his commission is 10% of that. That is his profit from the house edge. It doesn't include his staking profit.

Each time we stake a block, 90% of the block's reward is distributed to investors, and 10% is taken as commission, immediately. Your share of the block reward is added to your investment, and also to your "base", which means it won't be seen as "profit" at the end of the week, and you won't have to pay any further commission on it.

If you look at the guy's "base" figure and how it changed this last week, you'll see it went up from 133.78519775 to 136.04771387. That's a rise of 2.26251612, and represents his total profit for the week, including from staking.

Finally, if you look at https://just-dice.com/wagered.txt you can see the site profit and staked amounts per day. For the week in question we see:


ie. the site staked 8011.70520000 CLAM and won 1089.53447718 CLAM.

The guy we're looking at has no offsite investment. His 'base' went up by 2.26251612 for the week, meaning that 90% of his total profit before commission is 2.26251612, and so his total profit for the week before commission was 2.26251612/0.9 = 2.5139068 CLAM. We already saw that his profit from the house edge before commission was 0.00612616 CLAM, so his profit from staking was 2.5139068 - 0.00612616 = 2.50778064 CLAM.

Note that his profit from staking is around 400 times bigger than his profit from the house edge. That's because the site made 8 times more from staking than it did from the house edge, and the average investor has roughly a 50x offsite investment. 50 * 8 = 400.

Does that make more sense now?

If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them. Maybe post your 'investment' and 'commission' reports if you have specific questions about them.

I meant that the total of my investment profit has gone from zero to nearly 10% of my investment. That doensn't matter now though.

I had already read the FAQs about onsite and offsite etc, but still couldn't figure it out. I see now how I mistook the increase of profit percentage for the increase of the total invested percentage. Thanks

I'm basically trying to figure out how to delineate my stakes profit from my share of the house edge profit. When I click on the 'commission' button in the 'History' tab, does this show my investment increase due to house edge, and the commission taken from that for just-dice, or is there a different way to view what I've gained from my share of the house edge?

Think of it this way.

The total amount invested is 1000.
In the first month the site makes a profit of 10 (1%).
Then you invest.
In the 2nd month the site makes another profit of 10 (another ~1%). Total profit is now 20.

You say "hey, profit went from 10 to 20. It doubled! When did I only make 1%?"

Do you see the error in your thinking?

The fact that the profit doubled is of no importance. You invested into a bankroll which grew from 1010 to 1020. That's about a 1% growth, and so you got about 1% growth on your investment.

You also need to take into account that different investors use different amounts of "offsite investment". See the Just-Dice FAQ tab for details. Your share of the profits is proportional to your total of (onsite + offsite), as is everyone else's. Your share of the staking is proportional to just your onsite coins, since they're the only ones the site can stake for you.

Edit: I just re-read your post, and found a bigger problem:


That seems wrong. Your investment profit started at zero, and is now presumably positive. That's not a 10% increase, that's an infinite percentage increase. "The site profit doubled so my investment profit doubled" isn't good logic. The only similar statement that is close to being true is: "the site's bankroll (onsite + offsite) went up by X%, so my total investment (onsite + offsite) should also have gone up by X% (until 10% commission is taken at the end of the week, at which point it will have gone up by 0.90*X%, and more because of staking rewards"