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Topic: Just remove signatures already. As in delete, disable, gone. - page 19. (Read 44861 times)

copper member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2348
Is there any legitimate reason to buy an account?
Plenty yes

  • The most common is to participate in signature deals. I know that you are going to say that this contributes to additional spam, and this is probably correct to an extent, however it also attracts additional people to the forum (and to bitcoin) that would not otherwise be here. This overall will increase the adoption of bitcoin and will overall increase it's chances for success.
  • The ability to say something potentially controversial without associating your "main" forum identity/reputation with such message. For example if someone decided one day that they thought they found a reason why Bitcoin is going to fail but they are not 100% sure if they are correct, they may wish to purchase an account in order to force the discussion of this potential flaw without risking the embarrassment that would follow if they were wrong. Granted someone could just create a new account to do this however people tend to not take brand new accounts that make these kinds of statements very seriously - they are often almost automatically written off as trolling. There are other numerous examples of what could be said with purchased accounts. This is a pillar of freedom of speech. To truly have free speech, you not only need to be able to speak what is on your mind but also be able to do so without your identity being revealed
  • For avatars. This is somewhat less common, especially as the percentage of overall accounts available with avatars is rapidly decreasing, as well as the fact that the new forum will likely have avatars.
  • To get around the 360 second posting rule and other newbie restrictions
  • To have the prestige of having a higher ranking account. Some may think this is somewhat dishonest and may be against this however it is a source of demand for accounts.

Additionally I know there is a stereotype that purchased accounts almost always scam, however this is not the case. I have been trading accounts for roughly 8 months, have sold over 100 accounts, and would say that under 10 have scammed (as defined as having negative trust). It has been a while since I have checked, however I am extremely active in both the market place sections and the scam accusations sections so I am confident to say that I would probably know about it if/when an account of mine would get negative trust. I would say that even this number is probably high because I suspect that a few people had purchased accounts from me with the intention of scamming with a former account of mine specifically as there are quite a few people that do not like me because of the scams I have stopped.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Is there any legitimate reason to buy an account?
copper member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2348
just my 2cents: I am absolutely for removing sigs. i'd prefer to only remove sig-ads but that would be impossible to archive.

This would be a good reason to make any bought account a suspect (probably the reason why quickseller is against it) because their does not seem to be a valid reason left to buy one (expect maybe for accounts like TF and such).
It is impossible to tell with certainty if an account is purchased or not. It is very possible to provide evidence that someone is the original owner of an account when this is not the case (including signing messages from either a BTC address or a PGP key). You are correct that it would remove the majority of valid reasons to buy accounts and most purchased accounts would be used to scam, however most accounts that people would be considering to sell would also be used to scam.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
just my 2cents: I am absolutely for removing sigs. i'd prefer to only remove sig-ads but that would be impossible to archive.

This would be a good reason to make any bought account a suspect (probably the reason why quickseller is against it) because their does not seem to be a valid reason left to buy one (expect maybe for accounts like TF and such).
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
The use of signatures reduces scams by giving value to accounts because people can earn BTC via signature deals.

Also, if you want accounts with value, I may suggest you the social network tsū, where you are paid for your posts according to how many people like and comment on them.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Facebook = social media
Bitcointalk = forums
social media =/= forums

It's a bad analogy regardless of how similar you feel they are. Facebook is used to connect with friends and family, and forums are used to stimulate open discussion between likeminded people.

I disagree. I use Facebook Groups to connect with people that speak Esperanto. These are people I've never seen I'm my life, but with whom I share a common interest, much like a forum.

And I use the youtube comments section to discuss conspiracies and psuedosciences. Does that make youtube a forum to discuss conspiracies and psuedosciences? It's still a video sharing site, even if I use it differently than the majority.

What's the point of Facebook Groups (please note that it's not the whole of Facebook, just this specific feature)
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
I think that the debate about whether facebook and twitter are like (or are not like) forums has taken us a bit afield of what's going on in this thread.

I was trying to show a forum-like site that doesn't use signatures as an example, but it's clear that nobody agrees with me on this analogy.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1034
Facebook = social media
Bitcointalk = forums
social media =/= forums

It's a bad analogy regardless of how similar you feel they are. Facebook is used to connect with friends and family, and forums are used to stimulate open discussion between likeminded people.

I disagree. I use Facebook Groups to connect with people that speak Esperanto. These are people I've never seen I'm my life, but with whom I share a common interest, much like a forum.

And I use the youtube comments section to discuss conspiracies and psuedosciences. Does that make youtube a forum to discuss conspiracies and psuedosciences? It's still a video sharing site, even if I use it differently than the majority.
copper member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2348
There is not the same level of commerce taking place on Facebook that takes places on the forums. Additionally it is much more difficult to recover your money when you are scammed via bitcoin then when you are scammed using a credit card on Facebook (you would need to take legal action against a likely anon person).

I don't know why the volume of commerce discussed is relevant. Also, are you implying that selling something via a Facebook Group can only be completed using a credit card? Is that something written in Facebook's rules?
The volume of commerce is relevant because without signatures, if someone wanted to start/promote a business on the forum then their only option would be to advertise via the forum banner ads. This would result in the price of the banner advertisements to be pushed up significantly which in turn would price out the newer businesses with a smaller budget.

It is a rule that bitcoin (or an altcoin in the altcoin sections) potentially be on at least one side of every trade proposed when creating a marketplace thread (it needs to be one payment method offered/accepted). As a result nearly 100% of forum trades/deals somehow involve bitcoin.

To my knowledge it is a rule to pay with Facebook credits if buying something directly through Facebook, however if trades are done privately (and online) then they are overwhelmingly done with fiat, primarily credit cards. That is simply a demographic of Facebook users. In the future it would be possible that more Facebook trades are done via bitcoin, however that is not the case today.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1081
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
I think that the debate about whether facebook and twitter are like (or are not like) forums has taken us a bit afield of what's going on in this thread.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Facebook = social media
Bitcointalk = forums
social media =/= forums

It's a bad analogy regardless of how similar you feel they are. Facebook is used to connect with friends and family, and forums are used to stimulate open discussion between likeminded people.

I disagree. I use Facebook Groups to connect with people that speak Esperanto. These are people I've never seen I'm my life, but with whom I share a common interest, much like a forum.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1034
Facebook = social media
Bitcointalk = forums
social media =/= forums

It's a bad analogy regardless of how similar you feel they are. Facebook is used to connect with friends and family, and forums are used to stimulate open discussion between likeminded people. There is a huge gap. In its simplest forum, a signature is a way for users to express themselves. They add a bit of flair to all of their posts that is unique to them. You don't need that on facebook, twitter, or other social media because the activity and discussion on there is about the posters, not a niche subject the whole website revolves around.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
There is not the same level of commerce taking place on Facebook that takes places on the forums. Additionally it is much more difficult to recover your money when you are scammed via bitcoin then when you are scammed using a credit card on Facebook (you would need to take legal action against a likely anon person).

I don't know why the volume of commerce discussed is relevant. Also, are you implying that selling something via a Facebook Group can only be completed using a credit card? Is that something written in Facebook's rules?
copper member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 2348
facebook is nothing like a forum, there is no way to monitor everyone in facebook and its all facebooks rules and everything you write is owned by facebook, and they can close you down, forums are from the BBS days Facebook is from a phone book

Of course Facebook has its own rules you have to play by. But that's not the point. I'm talking about the concept of people discussing their ideas, which can happen both in Facebook Groups and in forums.
There is not the same level of commerce taking place on Facebook that takes places on the forums. Additionally it is much more difficult to recover your money when you are scammed via bitcoin then when you are scammed using a credit card on Facebook (you would need to take legal action against a likely anon person).

The use of signatures reduces scams by giving value to accounts because people can earn BTC via signature deals. If signatures were not allowed then the only people buying accounts would likely be scammers and this would make it much more difficult to conduct business at best, and more likely would result in more people being successful at pulling off scams.

Additionally there are much more spammy ways that people use both Facebook and twitter then spamming their signature ad. For example people can update their status with no limits, can repost various advertisements, among other things (Facebook). People can tweet and retweet advertisements and use hashtags in spammy ways (twitter).
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1081
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
facebook is nothing like a forum, there is no way to monitor everyone in facebook and its all facebooks rules and everything you write is owned by facebook, and they can close you down, forums are from the BBS days Facebook is from a phone book

Facebook is from a phone book sounds like the beginning of a great sonnet, I think.  But anyway theymos owns this forum and whatnot, he can delete whatever and as far as I know is god around here like facebook is on facebook.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
facebook is nothing like a forum, there is no way to monitor everyone in facebook and its all facebooks rules and everything you write is owned by facebook, and they can close you down, forums are from the BBS days Facebook is from a phone book

Of course Facebook has its own rules you have to play by. But that's not the point. I'm talking about the concept of people discussing their ideas, which can happen both in Facebook Groups and in forums.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
where am i? HELLO WORLD
facebook is nothing like a forum, there is no way to monitor everyone in facebook and its all facebooks rules and everything you write is owned by facebook, and they can close you down, forums are from the BBS days Facebook is from a phone book
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Facebook and Twitter is not a forum, wrong comparison. Social media account  is very different from a forum account.

I don't know. Facebook Groups seem pretty comparable to forums to me.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
disabling ad campaigns is disabling freedom :> let us have our signature campaigns and just ban bumpers etc easiest way imo.

Why is it disabling freedom? Facebook doesn't have signatures and I've never seen anyone complain about it. Neither does Twitter, or commenting platforms such as Disqus.

Facebook and Twitter is not a forum, wrong comparison. Social media account  is very different from a forum account.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
where am i? HELLO WORLD
cant we have forum advertising rather than user advertising, i dont want to gamble and i know i have a problem with it, but other people may see this as a fast way to "double" there money
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