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Topic: Just remove signatures already. As in delete, disable, gone. - page 24. (Read 44861 times)

sr. member
Activity: 507
Merit: 250
What about the free market then? The ways to advertise are really limited in the bitcoin world, so people are using signatures to promote.
"Gambling is bad so don't allow gambling signatures" and I say: don't like it - don't click it! You can always hide signatures in your settings.

Signatures work like faucets and allow people to get some coins. Ask some newbies if they would like the signatures to be removed. Don't be selfish, not all of you are old members who could mine BTC on PC's.

Nah, problem is solved right??

There are opinion nor solution.

Be smart!
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
You can disable signatures in the settings. Cleans everything up nicely:

Profile > Look and Layout Preferences > Don't show users' signatures


Gonna try this thanks.
full member
Activity: 143
Merit: 100
I agree. Ban all signatures.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
It's easy to pretend we don't do anything because you don't see it, but reality is we do quite a lot.

The work you do is appreciated but still I see "pointless post after pointless post" that are basically no better than the old +1's generally with PrimeDice in their sig (the number one sponsor of useless posts on this forum IMO).

Maybe the sponsor should be banned (then they might be more picky about who they let post for them)?

Perhaps also sigs could be limited to not appear in any "useful boards" (that way they useless posters can just post in useless boards such as Lending). Grin


We actually ended paying per post count two days ago, I agree it definitely was watering down the quality of posts on this forum to a drastic degree. For anyone wondering we honestly did try hard to prevent spam in the campaign with last round reduced down to senior/hero members only and half of the seniors cut out but when the incentive to post is so high, spam is impossible to prevent. I still feel bad for popularizing this disruptive form of advertisement.

If you want this issue to be solved entirely it's simple, you just ban campaigns that pay per post. If you are paying a fixed amount for advertising depending on a user's rank then there is no reason to believe spam would increase as a result.

It's important to also make it more difficult to evade bans and outright ban the sale of accounts.
If you would stop paying someone .001 BTC for every post up to 400 posts per month then users would not want to try to post 400 posts per month.

If you are paying users a fixed rate (say .1 per month) for a minimum number of posts (say 50) then you are still paying on a per post basis, only that you will pay more per post and pay for less overall posts. The result is that users would make 50 posts (in my example) and then stop. "banning" pay per post signature campaigns will not stop anything. The only way to get completely away from "pay per post" is to pay users a fixed amount regardless of how much they post during that payment period.

The fact is that paid signatures allow for bitcoin related businesses to grow, which will allow the overall bitcoin economy to grow.

I do agree with evilpanda that there is a significant amount of spam from newer members without any kind of signature for Huh reasons. I am not sure if these posts would qualify as the forum's definition of "spam" but I have scrolled past pages of one sentence posts that really have nothing that can be replied to in any way. When you have a paid signature, if your posts are insubstantial enough then the campaign operator may not pay that user, so they have a disincentive to outright spam, this risk is not present for people without signatures. If a campaign operator does not police the quality of their users' posts then the advertising will not be as effective.

It should also be understood that a single answer in a newbie thread will (should) not be considered to be credible to the newbie regardless of it's accuracy. If someone is a newbie, then they do not know who to trust and a scammer could potentially say something that "sounds good" or "sounds right" but is not. If multiple people respond with the general same answer then such answer would have somewhat higher level of legitimacy.

I do think that many people with paid signatures would likely not be here if it were not for the paid signature (nor would they be interested in or use bitcoin). Having a paid signature does give some people the incentive to learn about (and ultimately use) bitcoin. I think this fact outweighs the negative effects of the (IMO small amount of) additional spam that results from paid signatures.  
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
I see people posting stupid without sigs, I wonder what are the next whinning gonna be now, when there is no one to blame for it.  Wait!!! the flat rate campaigns are spamming, I just people just whine and cry in these forums no better then the spammers.
We should ban the whiners too.  You know what no matter what you did Stunna people are always gonna complain. Also Im gonna keep my PD sig just to annoy the whiners
We already thanked and appreciated PD for moving away from the pay-per-post signature campaign.  We, well I, am no longer complaining about PD.  I think it would be a very good idea for everyone to follow PD's example and eliminate pay-per-post campaigns.  That would be a great step in the right direction.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
If you want this issue to be solved entirely it's simple, you just ban campaigns that pay per post. If you are paying a fixed amount for advertising depending on a user's rank then there is no reason to believe spam would increase as a result.

It's important to also make it more difficult to evade bans and outright ban the sale of accounts.

Thanks for this input and for stopping the campaign that has led to so many stupid posts being made in every board on the forum. Let's just hope others don't follow your original path (if the forum isn't going to do anything to prevent it).



I see people posting stupid without sigs, I wonder what are the next whinning gonna be now, when there is no one to blame for it.  Wait!!! the flat rate campaigns are spamming, I just people just whine and cry in these forums no better then the spammers.
We should ban the whiners too.  You know what no matter what you did Stunna people are always gonna complain. Also Im gonna keep my PD sig just to annoy the whiners
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
I think everyone agrees it's an issue. Real question is if it's enough of an issue to take further action, and if so, what course of action would be best?

Well - it seems a lot of people do think this is a *real issue* but what further action is maybe for you mods to decide.

What I think most people like me would like to see is less *pointless posts* that are made just for getting sig rewards.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Real question is if it's enough of an issue to take further action, and if so, what course of action would be best?

How it could it not be enough of an issue? Seriously, the past year or so, Ive basically only posted in threads I was already subscribed to, because if I click "show unread posts", I have to stroll through 200 pages of worthless threads to find perhaps one that might be interesting. And usually even then its not, because the bulk of the posts are again from spammers.

As for the course of action; start by the simplest solution. It wont solve all problems, but it would be a giant leap forward: disable ads in signatures or signatures all together.

legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
Of course I do, but EvilPanda is trying to deflect from the issue this thread is about by saying people spam anyway, which is a valid concern but it isn't what the thread is about.

So let's forget about EvilPanda and focus on the *real issue* - we are seeing a huge amount of *useless posts* in every board because people can *make money from that*.

That is the real issue that needs to be fixed (otherwise this forum is going to end up being not worth reading at all).

Even the tech topics are spammed with *rubbish* from people trying to earn money from their sigs (am sure Gavin and others are not impressed).

I noticed that even I was stupid enough to respond to a *supposed newbie* about how Bitcoin works only to notice later that their sig has PrimeDice in it (so they were just posting an old many times answered question to get paid). BTW Danny Hamilton also replied (so not it's not just me wasting time on this stuff).


I think everyone agrees it's an issue. Real question is if it's enough of an issue to take further action, and if so, what course of action would be best?

BadBear,  EvilPanda's argument *is* germane to the topic.  The OP suggests that sig-ads have caused a terrible increase in spam.  As fas as I can tell, EvilPanda is arguing that sig-ad spam is negiligible compared to overall spam.  You might disagree with him but it's hardly off-topic.  To my mind it's a quite valid rebuttal (which might obviously be disagreed with).

If I say high speed-limits are a major cause of death for citizens of country X, and you reply that the deaths on the road in that country are actually randomly distributed with respect to speeds---that the real problem is quality control on tire production.  I might say 'hey, you're derailing my thread about about speed-limits' but in fact you're simply disagreeing with my premise---not off topic in any way.

Quote
If you're trying to make a point that signatures don't cause extra spam, then make it, and we'll agree to disagree.  


legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1005
How to hide signatures:
Open AdBlockPlus Options: chrome-extension://cfhdojbkjhnklbpkdaibdccddilifddb/options.html
Click Add your own filters, enter this filter: bitcointalk.org,##div.signature
Done!
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1081
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.

The problem is *shit posts* (the sigs being sponsored is what has led to it).

Do you not see the *connection* between these two things?



Of course I do, but EvilPanda is trying to deflect from the issue this thread is about by saying people spam anyway, which is a valid concern but it isn't what the thread is about. Read what he said.

I'm not talking about signature spam here. Most of the spam I see here is made by newbies and Jr. members and they don't care about restrictions and don't put effort into creating new profiles.





I'm not talking about signature spam here.


And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.
You missed the point again (focusing on the signatures with people spamming without them) Sad It's ok if you don't want to talk about it.

I'm not missing the point, I'm ignoring it because it's off topic. This thread is about signatures and the resulting spam, if you want to talk about general spam sans signatures then make another thread and stop trying to derail this one. If you're trying to make a point that signatures don't cause extra spam, then make it, and we'll agree to disagree. 

 

BadBear,  EvilPanda's argument *is* germane to the topic.  The OP suggests that sig-ads have caused a terrible increase in spam.  As fas as I can tell, EvilPanda is arguing that sig-ad spam is negiligible compared to overall spam.  You might disagree with him but it's hardly off-topic.  To my mind it's a quite valid rebuttal (which might obviously be disagreed with).

If I say high speed-limits are a major cause of death for citizens of country X, and you reply that the deaths on the road in that country are actually randomly distributed with respect to speeds---that the real problem is quality control on tire production.  I might say 'hey, you're derailing my thread about about speed-limits' but in fact you're simply disagreeing with my premise---not off topic in any way.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Of course I do, but EvilPanda is trying to deflect from the issue this thread is about by saying people spam anyway, which is a valid concern but it isn't what the thread is about.

So let's forget about EvilPanda and focus on the *real issue* - we are seeing a huge amount of *useless posts* in every board because people can *make money from that*.

That is the real issue that needs to be fixed (otherwise this forum is going to end up being not worth reading at all).

Even the tech topics are spammed with *rubbish* from people trying to earn money from their sigs (am sure Gavin and others are not impressed).

I noticed that even I was stupid enough to respond to a *supposed newbie* about how Bitcoin works only to notice later that their sig has PrimeDice in it (so they were just posting an old many times answered question to get paid). BTW Danny Hamilton also replied (so not it's not just me wasting time on this stuff).
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.

The problem is *shit posts* (the sigs being sponsored is what has led to it).

Do you not see the *connection* between these two things?



Of course I do, but EvilPanda is trying to deflect from the issue this thread is about by saying people spam anyway, which is a valid concern but it isn't what the thread is about. Read what he said.

I'm not talking about signature spam here. Most of the spam I see here is made by newbies and Jr. members and they don't care about restrictions and don't put effort into creating new profiles.





I'm not talking about signature spam here.


And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.
You missed the point again (focusing on the signatures with people spamming without them) Sad It's ok if you don't want to talk about it.

I'm not missing the point, I'm ignoring it because it's off topic. This thread is about signatures and the resulting spam, if you want to talk about general spam sans signatures then make another thread and stop trying to derail this one. If you're trying to make a point that signatures don't cause extra spam, then make it, and we'll agree to disagree. 


OK, I will modify my stance:

One warning then perm ban anyone with a pay-per-post signature.

Allow signatures, allow ads (just not pay-per-post ads), allow links, allow pretty pictures, etc.

Although I would totally support text only and no links if that also helps.

We currently do a 3 strikes and you're out, 2 weeks>1 month>permaban is the typical progression. 
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
OK, I will modify my stance:

One warning then perm ban anyone with a pay-per-post signature.

Allow signatures, allow ads (just not pay-per-post ads), allow links, allow pretty pictures, etc.

Although I would totally support text only and no links if that also helps.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.

The problem is *shit posts* (the sigs being sponsored is what has led to it).

Do you not see the *connection* between these two things?

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Small Red and Bad

I'm not talking about signature spam here.


And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.
You missed the point again (focusing on the signatures with people spamming without them) Sad It's ok if you don't want to talk about it.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128

I'm not talking about signature spam here.


And here I thought this was a thread about signatures, must've taken a wrong turn somewhere Tongue.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Small Red and Bad
Bans are very rare and even if they occur the spammers just make another account, which takes them less than 5 minutes.

Ban's aren't that rare, banned almost 50 accounts today, closing in on 400 for the week, with thousands of posts deleted. Making new accounts isn't very effective with the signature restrictions, if they do they'll be more careful because of the time invested. It's easy to pretend we don't do anything because you don't see it, but reality is we do quite a lot.

I'm not talking about signature spam here. Most of the spam I see here is made by newbies and Jr. members and they don't care about restrictions and don't put effort into creating new profiles.
Some time ago I saw a guy bragging he was making over a 100 posts a day with a signature and it took you at least 2 months to notice and ban him, so he managed to earn about 2BTC before being caught. IMO this is rather tempting.
Honestly from my point of view it looks like you're picking ants with a straw, one by one. I've reported numerous posts that were obvious spam attempts and, although sometimes the posters were temporarily banned, the posts weren't removed as I was told such is the forum policy and if I want to remove posts I have to make a self moderated thread.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
If you want this issue to be solved entirely it's simple, you just ban campaigns that pay per post. If you are paying a fixed amount for advertising depending on a user's rank then there is no reason to believe spam would increase as a result.

It's important to also make it more difficult to evade bans and outright ban the sale of accounts.

Thanks for this input and for stopping the campaign that has led to so many stupid posts being made in every board on the forum. Let's just hope others don't follow your original path (if the forum isn't going to do anything to prevent it).
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
Bans are very rare and even if they occur the spammers just make another account, which takes them less than 5 minutes.

Ban's aren't that rare, banned almost 50 accounts today, closing in on 400 for the week, with thousands of posts deleted. Making new accounts isn't very effective with the signature restrictions, if they do they'll be more careful because of the time invested. It's easy to pretend we don't do anything because you don't see it, but reality is we do quite a lot.

Yeah, you guys need to require email validation.  Too easy to create accounts en masse.
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