Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 1596. (Read 5352367 times)

CKDB Restart was from 12:21 to 12:29 - completed.
Just a few minor updates.
One being that I can see one set of previously missing event data on a web page so I can more easily track down if there are early user web blocks happening (i.e. is there a bug) in the handling of the valid access limits

Based on current CPU, current CKDB code limit performance on the current hardware is probably about 6x the current pool i.e. about 180PHs
However, when we hit 40PH the CPU increase wasn't linear, is was less than that, so I'd expect the current CKDB code wouldn't be an issue until around 200PH or more.

As -ck mentioned above, that's unrelated to mining as such.
-ck's ckpool mining code could indeed handle EHs mining on the current hardware.

There are issues if CKDB got to that limit on the current code, but I also know exactly where those issues are and that is the next priority change.
I've had quite a few changes I've been working on since I last made the comment about when I'd work on that, but they have indeed been related to the security of the pool since it has grown, not the size of the pool in performance.

I certainly don't think the fact that I've detected a miner that has withheld blocks and earned 46BTC as trivial.
In fact you will find there is no other pool that has done that so early, before.
Slushs's withholding was picked up at the absolute minimum after throwing away 250BTC to the miner.
I suspect it was a lot more than that.
You also need to consider how long a miner takes to mine 10+ blocks ... to get an idea of at the least, how long it was going on before he detected it ...

The manual payout system is not like I sit there and type numbers into a spreadsheet or something like that.
It's simply that I manually run the pool security checks and payout generation scripts, that at the end, produce each payout transaction.
I then simply run each transaction script I've generated once the block is mature.
The security checks I run, at least daily, usually more often, I guarantee are well beyond anything you will find any other pool does.

The delay that occurred was to work out what was going on with the withholding, add code changes to CKDB and determine if I should put a hold on which accounts.
Yes the total saved ended up being less than 10BTC, but the changes are in place already so I can now check that easily.
... and of course if I just let it got on, that would have been, with the current belligerents, at least 10BTC a week ... until it grew due to no intervention.

I've processed more than 20TB of share history (yes I have every share logged ...) and generated a database history of all shares over 1G since February last year (I'll do the previous 5 months back to when the pool started some other time)
CKDB now records them all individually (>=1G) now searchable in the DB so I can run miner performance stats even on block ranges.
(of course CKDB has shift summarised stats of all shares, but this is all the actual individual shares >=1G share diff)
I use SQL to do this so that it doesn't affect CKDB, since the miner share history is, of course, now over 18 months of data - all in the DB, but CKDB doesn't load it all into RAM, only recent history, since it doesn't need to know more than a few weeks of history.
I have, as I've stated before, already had normal block withholding data available, just nothing at this low level to detect it way earlier, that no other pool has done before now.

Sorry, that's not quite correct ...
The web site on the pool shows blocks immediately after they are found and will always do that before anything else on the planet, except under one condition:
That one condition is during a CKDB restart.

That's currently about once every 3 days at the moment (and there'll be another one in the next 4-6 hours)
That has no effect on mining, only on web/API access.

There's only been one block recently that I recall being during a restart - and yes if the web site data isn't available at that time due to a CKDB restart, indeed you will have to wait for the restart to complete, to see it.
If Zach is using kano.is to get that data, you'll never see it there before here.
If he is using some other source to get that data by analysing a local bitcoind, then the only time he'll know about it before the kano.is web site will know about it is during a CKDB restart.

That orphan we got was almost unavoidable.
The timing was a couple hundred milliseconds.
We have already recently won an orphan race where we were not first to release the block, but due to our connectivity we were able to get the larger pools to work off our block rather than the other pool's block.
In the recent orphan case we lost, I suspect it was a solo miner in china, or a small not yet well known pool in china, who pushed their block to the chinese pools so it took longer to get to us.

Remember, orphans are random just like everything else, and the pool's history shows it is doing way better than the other pools.
3 orphans (and 1 stale I flagged as an orphan) in 668 blocks.

One recent orphan block, that being less than 46BTC, and certainly less than 250BTC

... and FYI ... I don't mind you posting that and I'll not delete such posts, but I will make corrections as I've posted to state pool facts

The hardware that the pool is on could easily handle the entire bitcoin network hashrate if it needed to with the current pool code. The database code less than that but Kano's always working on it and that never interferes with mining.

Nahndo, I don't think the issues your condsidering reflect Kano or the server being able to handle the 35PH load.  I think only Kano or CK can attest to the capabilities of the pool.  I do think the fact that 35PH was added to this thread title is a good indicator the pool can handle that weight.  I don't think anybody was happy that stuff had to be dealt with.  It was dealt with pretty well though.  I literally lost my whole mining operation when slush was under this attack for months so I understand what it's like to take a hit.  Needing to cash out in time for power bill alone needs to be done timely to stay afloat.   I think this pool can kill at 35PH.  I know when it hits 35PH all miners are still hitting top speed and we hit mad blocks there...  Feels like the ride is smooth at 35PH to me.  Luck is luck.  Sometimes you have to push your luck.  If it was all luck we would all be mining solo.  Increasing pool speed increases the chances for more lucky days or no one would rental boost at all.  5nd or not..

I agree with both of your last comments Aaaron:).  I'm not sold on the increase yet either, I hope supply and demand would yield a higher price.  I think adoption and use need more evolving for it to compensate fully.  If it can just hit $600 I think traders would profit and that added adoption would follow.  I'm not sure the halving event alone would do the trick.

Unfortunately luck is luck.  Doesn't matter if we're at 15PH or 50PH.  All it would do is statistically reduce the length of time between a painful long block.  However what is more important is, whether your pool infrastructure is ready for the massive growth?  There is a reason why Kano wants to keep his pool within a certain network size.  What is needed to support 20PH is not the same at 200PH.  Look at Antpool, the refresh on the site is usually about 15-25 mins delay on each block.  Quite frankly I'm not even certain if Kano was prepared for this explosive growth we had going from 5PH in Dec to 40PH in just 4 months.  That's 800% growth!!  It's hard to predict that type of growth.  There is no perfect pool, I don't care what anyone says.  There will always be features that 1 person want vs another and no pool can satisfy everyone.  Quite frankly a manual payout system may work well when you're managing a small pool but it's definitely not the best system when you're much larger.  I was definitely not happy when everyone's pay was held for so long due to some investigation delay on some portion of small crappy miners.  Some may not care as their payout is small, but when you're running a big operation, you need consistency.   With growth there will also be lots of other issues that comes with it (hardware upgrade, servers getting overloaded, network issues, DDOS attack etc).  Planned growth is good, unexpected boom may cause more harm then good.  Now I don't know what the staffing requirement is from 5PH to 40 to 100, etc.  What I can see recently with all this growth is more frequent restarts for upgrades and code changes.  Kano have to deal with crap miners that consumed his entire day, etc.  You also see extra investments in more proxy servers, dealing with issues on disconnects, etc.  It can be a lot of work and plenty of things can go wrong or is not planned for.

This is why I say it's entirely "my opinion", no technical proof behind it, but it seems like the pool was operating much more efficient when it was around 25PH.  When my partners and I were pushing the pool to 40PH with our 7500TH to get us thru them nasty long duration,  Zach's tool would alert me 5mins on the block and I had to wait 5 mins until it was shown on Kano.is.  It was never like that before as it was always instant.  There's other things I noticed on certain delays and stuff, but it's not significant enough to cause concern.   Luck is luck, doesn't matter if the pool is at 10 PH or 100PH, it all boils down to how long you're willing to wait for the nastiest long block duration which only gets worst with higher difficulties.  However I rather take no growth then growth that is not well planned in advance.  Outages, disconnects, or orphans can get very expensive.   That orphan we recently had was super super expensive during that dry spell where every block count.

P.S I never take anything personal so don't worry about that.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  I just prefer to states the facts when I can and highlight where it's my own personal opinions.

yep no reason to get personal..

bitcoin mining is changing. im really excited to see what happens in the next few months..

miners will have to adjust.. pools will have to change.. some think the price of bitcoin will go up to compensate.. but im not completely sold on that happening..

But thats Just Variance. When we were at 1.X PH/s i remember a week where there would be no payout at all, then another with very low payout vs estimate. It's true we get smaller upswing now, but thats because we get smaller downswing as well.

If what you want is high variance, then with Kano having grown several time in % vs difficulty will indeed feel off.

I'm guess the small lottery effect feeling subsided now, and some people are missing the thrill. Not sure why some are getting personal over it, however.

I just read your reply nhando.  Don't take it personally, I'm glad for the big pushes.  They have come through on some slow days.  I'm just pushing for some steady pushes and if you can gradually ramp down on exit I think it might be good. You could test it and see if there is a difference.  I would if I had the coin.   You have come through a ton, so know I appreciate you and your partners.   I'm just a small player anyway.   I just expressed my opinion without filter because I'd like to know what everyone thinks.  I tend to question everything and I felt my therioes needed questioning as well. Especially therioes based solely on observation of results.  I figured Kano or CK would chime in somewhere with a knowledge bomb.   I do believe from seeing the hashrate spikes we would rock out holding 35PH.  I mean we were killing it there steady before the block withholding stuff Kano had to handle the bad luck weekend. 

i understand where thedreamer is coming from..
back last year.. when i was making .04-.05 a block, we would get those days where you would get 2, 3 or even 4 blocks a day and mine WHOLE weeks worth of bitcoin in one day.. it was a huge amount.
it seems now we are expecting those blocks just to break even..

but its not all the pool speed.. the difficulty has doubled since then. so if it wasnt for the increased pool speed we would be worse off.

Please do disagree.  A theory based on observation needs challenging and insight.  I don't see how comparing last year applies now.  Antpool and f2pool are topping 300PH, last year they were what...80PH. I'm just guessing, maybe you can find a pool growth table. I believe even small pools need to hold a similar ratio as they have in the past to large pools to hold their own competitively.  It seems like yesterday they were at 170PH.  Plus, you know the mining companies will be clearing out for new halving rigs.  I know April we have a big 149w/TH release coming.  I haven't even checked out hardware releases maybe you guys know more.  Really what makes me say we need to hold 35PH steady is just how well we do when hit that number.  I just think at a solid 35PH consistently in current conditions would be if we can push our luck at that number, we would probably see more profit at that number steady.  Um, I don't think dreamer is complaining, he is stating his opinion.  I respect him. LOL remember when I told you I'd let you throw the first punch?  He still consistently mines here and was the first to refer me to Kano when I was losing money in slush.  I debate payout/pool size in my head constantly.

Very good points.

Actually, I am so very tired of seeing any form of complaint regarding payouts here.
Does anyone think the facts which have been bragged about by so many are any less valid today?

We have the Dream Team of Pool Ops, the fastest propagation times of any other non-spv pools EVEN times some SPV mining pools.
Not to mention zero transaction blocks who are commonly the very same SPV pools where it was shown today that with the right code you can solve a block within the same times or less but still manage to include transactions.  

In my opinion if you cannot be supportive, if you do not have the intelligence, if you are a fair-weather fan then good riddance. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Common sense tells you with scaling comes issues, with more size comes problems. I for one believe that Kano and CK have done a miraculous job of handling the few issues while at the same time providing enhancements.

Look at the work and transparency from these guys when Block With-holding was suspected and shown. More information was provided than any other pool during the same events. Consider how it was handled, and obviously shut down. Personally I have all the faith one could that people attempting these types of things in the future will be busted.

So again I must say, this is the best pool available. If you think you will earn more with your PPS, or more with your pools which have lied, who never answer support questions and who certainly do not have a forum presence then by all means all of you should go to that pool.

Luck is a finicky bitch and if you are not prepared for her you are in the wrong activity.

Having said that I wish you all the best, I hope you get rich beyond your wildest dreams no matter where you mine, but for me, I am staying right here where the consistency has been proven, the code has been proven far more than any other pool to have positive results, and I have resources tied to the best in the business answering questions and providing results.

Good day

Once again, another confusion on how 5ND works.  No one comes in and can simply take the money and run.  They pay for it with their shares during the time they're here.  Likewise when they leave, they "MAY" get some of it on the way out if blocks hit during the remaining short window.   The current 5ND is at 1 day and 12hrs.  If I come in throw 5PH and I help the pool score 4 blocks immediately, do you know how much I get?  Very little as my ramp up time takes a long time, however EVERYONE ELSE in the pool who is fully ramped up, WINS a much larger slice from my effort.  Now if I bounce after those 4 blocks and if we never  hit any blocks during my remaining 5ND period, guess, what?  I lose everything.  Do you know the opportunity cost for running 5PH for 1 day? $6250.  The 5ND benefits more for the people who stay, not the hit and run people as you can end up with nothing to show for it if we hit a nasty long duration.  

Of course you would expect statistically the time between next block will slow down if the  pool loses 25% of it's hashing power.  However in return for the lower pool size from that 25% loss, you gain bigger payouts for that delay.  So please stop complaining about people who come and go.  No one on this pool is large enough to move the pool 25%.  Majority of the people have jump at some point, but everyone just like to point the finger at the bigger guys as it's more visible.  Luck is luck, people coming and leaving does not change luck.  The whole concept of Bitcoin is to make money.  There's no loyalty to any pool regardless of what people say (exception for the tiny few), most will bounce to whatever is most profitable to them.      

not to disagree but last year the network had a 90 day flat hash rate


see here:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty


Jul 11 2015   51,076,366,303   3.39%   365,618,871 GH/s   so on July 10 rate was 49.402

Jun 28 2015   49,402,014,931   -0.58%   353,633,397 GH/s
Jun 14 2015   49,692,386,355   4.42%   355,711,957 GH/s
May 31 2015   47,589,591,154   -2.50%   340,659,563 GH/s
May 17 2015   48,807,487,245   2.44%   349,377,603 GH/s
May 03 2015   47,643,398,018   0.07%   341,044,727 GH/s
Apr 19 2015   47,610,564,513   -3.71%   340,809,696 GH/s
Apr 05 2015   49,446,390,688   5.84%   353,951,052 GH/s  on apr5 rate was 49.446

so apr 5 to July 10 is 96 days  and rate did a tiny drop



Mar 18 2016   165,496,835,118   4.46%   1,184,672,491 GH/s
Mar 04 2016   158,427,203,767   -3.10%   1,134,066,098 GH/s
Feb 19 2016   163,491,654,909   13.44%   1,170,318,852 GH/s


So from feb 19 to about march 31 is 40/41 days   and we will be from 163.9 to 165.4  a tiny jump

so if this extends to a few more jumps we could have 70 days at 1 % jump.

which means this pool does not need much growth for a little bit 40 days for sure maybe more.

Well a month ago at 25PH I liked my rewards also, but they will decline slowly.  That's just Bitcoin mining.  Soon the block will cut in half.  If you don't steadily grow to keep up with the competition and diff increase you may like your reward size but will grow to hate its infrequency.  Other pools are doubling, cutting the reward.  If we were 35PH steady we would be getting 5-15.. Maybe.  We hold 35PH for 6-12hours and get 4-5blocks, but then they take the money and run. It's to bad you don't lose money if you leave before the confirmation of blocks.  I could imagine we would be above %110 like we were when growth was steady.  So instead of blazing through the blocks getting steady blocks along the way we have this pause.  Once we are done with the work here they come again pushing the pool. They make more, we make less.   I rent steady like I own, I don't take the money and run.  I would much rather see the pool gain steam and steadily grow.  I mean we still make better coin here than others.  I just feel like some ballers are taking advantage of 5nd.  We would all do a lot better if were steady even if we fluctuate 8PH. Take three days and pull out slow at least.  I just get pissed when I'm in any pool and we drop %30-40 in a couple hours after hitting blocks.  I don't even need to delve into the technology behind it.  Call it bad luck if the code doesn't support it.  I've mined and tested most every pool since 2012 it never fails.  Sudden drop over %25 equals slow time.  Kano does handle it the best by far of profitable pools, but if excecuted over a longer time period gradually a boost would yield more profit to all.  Including the renter or hopper.  I do think we need a few PH steady base added to compensate for increased competition hashrate.  If you wanna know if you like the reward at 35PH we would need to hold it non stop for a week or 2 for any of us to know if we prefer that speed.  You can't really know if you like small ratio or a growth with more frequency since we haven't seen a steady time period above 27PH for you or anyone else to know.

Hahah.......ok boys.......simmer down.  Haha.  He's just stating that overall luck have been good at 110% over the past 3 months.  When the stats is bad over 3 months, some would point to good luck at 6months, 1year, etc. Statistically this is only good if you have the same amount of equipment (ie 1 S7) and have been at Kano from the beginning of time and never grew.  Historical performance does not guarantee future results, so to me that doesn't mean anything.  Many things can change as a pool grows.  For example what if the pool was great at 10PH but then grew to 100PH but the infrastructure was never upgraded and suffer poor performance?  What if the total hashing rate was more than efficient for the old low difficulty but is struggling with future ridiculously high difficulties?  This is why the current trends is more important than historical trends.  Also many people have grown their hashing power exponentially over the past 3 months so if recent luck is horrible for the past month and you have 500TH average now, it could easily wipe out all your profit that you made with higher luck percentage at say 5-50TH, etc over 6months before that.  We're at a PPLNS pool because we like to gamble, otherwise we're all be at a PPS pool.  Can't always have great luck and likewise, it can't be shitty forever either.  =)  It's nice to see the luck turn around a bit.  Those nasty stretch were definitely painful for everyone, heck I still haven't fully recover from it!

  

To VirosaGITS, please stop cyber-stalking me and posting your useless and unhelpful crap on any and all threads I post into.
You are ignored and I don't even see your posts but it feels funny having a fan-boy caring so much about me that you reply to everything I post with your dumb comments.

Do you realize luck for the past 3 months is about 110%? I'm tracking my income per week and its gone up vs expected, not down vs before. Or are you complaining that you're getting 5 payouts of let say 0.01BTC per day instead of 1 payout of 0.15BTC per 3 days?

I agree with that above. We've had much better luck IMO when we were smaller than when we hit 30PH size. Payments are better and we don't 'need' 5-6+ blocks per day.

I'm sticking around but when I look at my Kano wallet declining for the past 2 weeks slowly. I B&M and worry but rather support this pool than other asian ones.

This is not how the PPLNS 5ND works.  It takes a long ramp up time to reach your full payout so hopping around doesn't net you more money.    The entire idea of it is to reduce hoppers.  However people who have big Hashing power also have high operating cost.  There's many variables involve where their miners may be set to hop based on different market changes (PPS prices, etc).  When your operating cost is high while profit margin decrease quickly over time, you need to maximize on guarantee profit of x % over market rate whenever you can rather than gamble.  It's the nature of the business and really doesn't hurt the pool.  I'm starting to like this pool at 25-30PH.  It's just my opinion, no technical thesis behind it, but it seems to run more efficient and the 5ND window of 1day and 12hrs is perfect for me.