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Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 2038. (Read 5352086 times)

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash, then saw a large pool has issues and network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long. I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days!

Maybe China should lose internet more often.  Roll Eyes

They already have too much hash and could do with less. A big portion of the hash is there and it kinda feel like centralization to me.

I agree, less hash from China. But with the diff at 52+ it would take months if not years for the network diff if reduce enough to get 10 min block if 60-70 percent of the hash went away. The remaining miners would have to fork the chain to get back to 10m blocks in a reasonable time frame. My 2 cents
No, it would take to the next 2016 block re-adjustment to go down appropriately, at most two.  If we lost 60% of the hash rate today, next week the diff would adjust downward significantly and the following 2016 block adjustment would finish it off.

Correct, but if we lost that much hash shortly after an adjustment it would take a LONG time to get 2000 or so blocks. Say we are at 400ph now, just adjusted and then network went to 160ph it would be months. We lost 70ph for a short time a couple days ago and I saw a almost 1 hour block and others in 30min plus. At that time network went to 320ph. Now imagine 160Ph. I'm sure someone can do the math at 160ph at current diff and 2000 blocks to mint before next adjustment.
Ahh, ok I see your point now... Misunderstood the angle you were taking with it. 

Would be roughly 2.5x longer, right? If it takes about 12 days now, it would take 30 days to get to the next adjustment in that case.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash, then saw a large pool has issues and network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long. I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days!

Maybe China should lose internet more often.  Roll Eyes

They already have too much hash and could do with less. A big portion of the hash is there and it kinda feel like centralization to me.

I agree, less hash from China. But with the diff at 52+ it would take months if not years for the network diff if reduce enough to get 10 min block if 60-70 percent of the hash went away. The remaining miners would have to fork the chain to get back to 10m blocks in a reasonable time frame. My 2 cents
No, it would take to the next 2016 block re-adjustment to go down appropriately, at most two.  If we lost 60% of the hash rate today, next week the diff would adjust downward significantly and the following 2016 block adjustment would finish it off.

Correct, but if we lost that much hash shortly after an adjustment it would take a LONG time to get 2000 or so blocks. Say we are at 400ph now, just adjusted and then network went to 160ph it would be months. We lost 70ph for a short time a couple days ago and I saw a almost 1 hour block and others in 30min plus. At that time network went to 320ph. Now imagine 160Ph. I'm sure someone can do the math at 160ph at current diff and 2000 blocks to mint before next adjustment.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash, then saw a large pool has issues and network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long. I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days!

Maybe China should lose internet more often.  Roll Eyes

They already have too much hash and could do with less. A big portion of the hash is there and it kinda feel like centralization to me.

I agree, less hash from China. But with the diff at 52+ it would take months if not years for the network diff if reduce enough to get 10 min block if 60-70 percent of the hash went away. The remaining miners would have to fork the chain to get back to 10m blocks in a reasonable time frame. My 2 cents
No, it would take to the next 2016 block re-adjustment to go down appropriately, at most two.  If we lost 60% of the hash rate today, next week the diff would adjust downward significantly and the following 2016 block adjustment would finish it off.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash, then saw a large pool has issues and network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long. I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days!

Maybe China should lose internet more often.  Roll Eyes

They already have too much hash and could do with less. A big portion of the hash is there and it kinda feel like centralization to me.

I agree, less hash from China. But with the diff at 52+ it would take months if not years for the network diff if reduce enough to get 10 min block if 60-70 percent of the hash went away. The remaining miners would have to fork the chain to get back to 10m blocks in a reasonable time frame. My 2 cents
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash, then saw a large pool has issues and network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long. I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days!

Maybe China should lose internet more often.  Roll Eyes

They already have too much hash and could do with less. A big portion of the hash is there and it kinda feel like centralization to me.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today

2 days ago I saw 57 minutes since the network solved a block, it was a period where about 70Ph fell off for a while, since the diff is based on network hash and say a large pool has issues and the network looses 70ph, blocks can get quite long.

I see that as an issue if say China lost all internet in a massive attack or natural disaster. Since more then 60% of all the hash is in China, we would be in deep dodo with blocks going days and maybe weeks.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
31 minutes since the network has solved a block... is that a long time or is it just me

Meh... they are all slow today
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
Payout 367994 sent (about 2 hours ago)
a2f74aad65c841ab7fbcb3eea60d51f093edb19c171cac94e5578798b6136e09
and confirmed (not long after that)
Payout 368012 sent
15f40828c0dc107aac2597c5187ae7c3e9fc3f04b46df3d8cd661d0baa931ddb
and confirmed
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 500
MOBU
@kano,

Ditto on the appreciation.

Since the last question concerned payout, I have one as well. I have always wondered if the actual 'finder of the block' gets any extra in the payout with the rest of the pool splitting the leftovers?

Just my cray-cray mind at work.
I considered it when I started the pool, but the reality is that there's not much point in doing it.
So I didn't.

Long term you don't get paid more or less for getting a block finder's reward.
What it does is increase miner's reward variance.

Thanks for the answer Kano. It's not like my little hashrate had a chance anyway. Curious mind.
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
@kano,

Ditto on the appreciation.

Since the last question concerned payout, I have one as well. I have always wondered if the actual 'finder of the block' gets any extra in the payout with the rest of the pool splitting the leftovers?

Just my cray-cray mind at work.
I considered it when I started the pool, but the reality is that there's not much point in doing it.
So I didn't.

Long term you don't get paid more or less for getting a block finder's reward.
What it does is increase miner's reward variance.
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 500
MOBU
@kano,

Ditto on the appreciation.

Since the last question concerned payout, I have one as well. I have always wondered if the actual 'finder of the block' gets any extra in the payout with the rest of the pool splitting the leftovers?

Just my cray-cray mind at work.
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
...
Do you display the current 5Nd range for each user account and / or individual miner as it relates to each block? I understand the Pool N range is displayed, and the difficulty used in the calculation, but during the ramp up of a new miner, or account, I would love to grab the current 5Nd from the API.

I see the Total range under Rewards among other fantastic information and I'm sure I could do some quick simple math to determine my personal amount, but I am pretty sure it is already displayed for me and I am being a magnificent tardella and missing the obvious answer here:

Block          Miner Reward   N Diff           N Range           Pool N Avg  Your %    Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
368012   24.87205178   262.959G   125hr 28m 47s   2.50PHs   0.40%   1.060G   10.08THs   
The payout generation code takes 1 or 2 seconds to execute so I don't try to work it out per user "what it would be now if we found a block"
It works it out per user when it does the payout generation shortly after each block.

Some time in the far distant future I'll probably add internal stats to keep track of that as "what would it be now if we found a block" - but it's somewhere down the todo list.

That page is of course your per user info when each block was found, the only thing it doesn't list is when you sent shares, but that's not really relevant since you can start and stop mining as many times as you like. It's only your total share Diff in the "N Diff"/"N Range" that matters - in the above case you had 1.06G Diff Shares of the total 262.959G shares.
So your BTC amount is simply 24.87205178 * 1.06 / 262.959
So it has the information there summarised for your reward for each block.

The "Ramp" itself doesn't actually exist as code - it's just how the payout appears as BTC vs hash rate from when you start.
The length of the "Ramp" is of course "N Diff" or 5Nd + a bit - that's what matters - but in terms of time it 'is' "N Range" each block but that changes as the pool hash rate changes.

Like all non-solo pools, you get a "ramp up" effect in your pay from when you start until you are paid, since the pool pays for the accumulated work you have done, not work you might do in the future.
The ramp here is 5Nd https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout (the same for everyone of course)

Since the pay range for each block is 5Nd, if you've mined 20THs for only half of that range then your reward when the block is found will of course be for half your hash rate i.e. equivalent of mining 10THs for the whole range.

The 5Nd means of course that each share takes time to be fully rewarded (5Nd) but that also does:
1) It reduces the variance of your reward since it's effectively averaged across 5 times longer
2) A corollary of 1) is that good or bad luck is averaged out - if it was 1Nd - then during that 666.666% block all shares in the first 566.666% would have received no reward - whereas due to the 5Nd, only the shares in the first 166.666% received no reward and the shares after that got at least some reward in that blocks and blocks after it, getting more rewards as they got closer to the end of the 666.666%
3) The "ramp up" doesn't mean you are losing BTC, it is simply that you don't have a full 5Nd set of shares being rewarded "now", each share will be rewarded in each block found in the 5Nd after they were found.
4) There is of course also the "ramp down" if you stop mining that simply represents the shares you found moving off the end of the 5Nd range
5) Of course if you are mining here full time for more than 5Nd, the "ramps" don't happen as such since you always have a full set of shares expecting to be rewarded

Another question I wanted to check with you is regarding rented hash.
...

Well the simple case is that there's nothing I can really do about it.
I also can't know if the renter is mining or it's being rented.
It is a risk since the renter gets paid no matter if he cheats or not ... and the rental companies don't care either.
They could keep statistics and histories of miners block finding so you could gauge how trustworthy a renter was - but they don't care since the rental companies get paid no matter what also.

...
Thanks for the great pool, and I appreciate your time.
Thanks Smiley
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 501
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=905210.msg
Please do not fix the pool. This is so sweet.
So many complain about the long ones, questioning software changes and digging up all sorts of superstitious stuff, but hey, my dials are not being turned and I am not changing a thing heh Smiley

I've never asked this Kano, and haven't ran across it in the thread. I know you have explained the payout system sooo many times this answer is probably here, and right on the website help page, but I have not found it. So apologies in advance for my nubish question.

Do you display the current 5Nd range for each user account and / or individual miner as it relates to each block? I understand the Pool N range is displayed, and the difficulty used in the calculation, but during the ramp up of a new miner, or account, I would love to grab the current 5Nd from the API.
I see the Total range under Rewards among other fantastic information and I'm sure I could do some quick simple math to determine my personal amount, but I am pretty sure it is already displayed for me and I am being a magnificent tardella and missing the obvious answer here:

Block          Miner Reward   N Diff           N Range           Pool N Avg  Your %    Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
368012   24.87205178   262.959G   125hr 28m 47s   2.50PHs   0.40%   1.060G   10.08THs   


Another question I wanted to check with you is regarding rented hash. I stopped renting hash when I saw your posts regarding the high potential for block withholding. I should say you never said it was happening anywhere, you explained how difficult it would be to detect. Not how easy it would be to actually execute.

I ran some numbers today and determined I made a profit by renting a small amount of hash and pointing it here over several months. I also mine with my small farm here as well. I would never want to be a part of the problem, and strive to be a part of the solution in our community. I certainly would never want to contribute to something which harmed the wonderful potential of this landscape.

I know it is a little off-topic for this thread, but how do you currently feel about rented hash coming to KANO.IS?. Would there be anything me as the renter could do to nueter a person's ability to withhold? Or, at least make life difficult for them?

Thanks for the great pool, and I appreciate your time.
legendary
Activity: 1694
Merit: 1002
Go Big or Go Home.....
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
Happy to see we just got another (2) block. Thank you to whoever turned on the hacks.

We can feel a bit of fresh air after surviving the 666.666 block. Wink
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
Payout 367894 sent (an hour ago)
7eb9a548d4affd382a69212861c7541252e49d6e45df03a3139bd732db9ba7c7
and confirmed
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 500
MOBU
your pool is definetley broke if your confirming your own transactions

Naw...not broke(n). Just that FAST thanks to a couple of great OPs.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
your pool is definetley broke if your confirming your own transactions
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
Another block!
Payouts 367866 and 367876 sent
804a51585d8bd076d89fe14671ba3a487052bdee2a1085bf2af7253d95b0e70d
1acca5f19b8b1dbb8777d720579978becc77cbb0a6231b1db48ddc67d3620d60
and confirmed by our block Smiley

thats pretty ironic...
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
Another block!
Payouts 367866 and 367876 sent
804a51585d8bd076d89fe14671ba3a487052bdee2a1085bf2af7253d95b0e70d
1acca5f19b8b1dbb8777d720579978becc77cbb0a6231b1db48ddc67d3620d60
and confirmed by our block Smiley
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