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Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 2044. (Read 5352420 times)

pekatete

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: kano on July 24, 2015, 03:40:11 AM

It's not extremely bad at all.

The CDF values for different Diff% are:

Code:

0.86466471676339 200.00%
0.95021293163214 300.00%
0.98168436111127 400.00%
0.99326205300091 500.00%
0.99752124782333 600.00%
0.99908811803445 700.00%
0.9996645373721 800.00%
0.99987659019591 900.00%

The wonders of statistics .... can achieve and fail to deliver granularity in the same breath. Should have been called guessitics.

Quote from: kano on July 24, 2015, 03:40:11 AM

But also note the even more important fact regarding that - sample vs population.
If you only have a small sample of blocks you can't even expect those numbers to be close.
Remember that the bitcoin network itself uses 2016 blocks to determine, inaccurately, the current network performance, so you need a lot of blocks before you can make any reasonable statistical judgements.

I actually believed the minimum sample size required to have at least 95% confidence in the result is 2000. (Off my fading memory, doubling that sample size to 4000 would NOT get you into 96% confidence irrespective of the population size....).

kano

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Activity: 4634

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: xstr8guy on July 24, 2015, 01:08:43 AM

Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on July 23, 2015, 12:44:08 PM

I'm always amazed at how biased people's understanding truly is. A pool goes for a week without finding a block and things must be wrong with the pool itself. Yet, when the pool finds many more blocks than it should, nobody's yelling that something is wrong with the pool.

I'm not some noob that doesn't understand how luck affects a mining pool. I've been mining for 3 years and have had all kinds of experiences, good and bad. I went through the whole block stealing episode on BTCguild. But this is so extremely bad, it's quite alarming. I can't help but feel that there is something wrong.

It's not extremely bad at all.

The CDF values for different Diff% are:

Code:

0.86466471676339 200.00%
0.95021293163214 300.00%
0.98168436111127 400.00%
0.99326205300091 500.00%
0.99752124782333 600.00%
0.99908811803445 700.00%
0.9996645373721 800.00%
0.99987659019591 900.00%

Simple statistics.

So for example, it is expected on average for 1 in just under 1,001 blocks to be more than 700%
i.e. some time in the near or distant future, it is not at all unexpected to get a block over 700%

That's the same on every pool on the planet (but of course it ignores the factors that can make it worse e.g. orphans and slow pools)

But also note the even more important fact regarding that - sample vs population.
If you only have a small sample of blocks you can't even expect those numbers to be close.
Remember that the bitcoin network itself uses 2016 blocks to determine, inaccurately, the current network performance, so you need a lot of blocks before you can make any reasonable statistical judgements.

But when the statistics show better than the expected average, it's a bit over the top to be calling it "extremely bad" ...

xstr8guy

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1004

Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on July 23, 2015, 12:44:08 PM

Antuam

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1005

Quote from: PPOC on July 23, 2015, 10:29:20 PM

Quote from: SergES on July 23, 2015, 10:07:27 PM

Help come in...2 Ths. Enough to quarrel.

Better break it now, 2.4 Ph just came in to help kill this 550% block. Yesterday Slush had a 900%+ block. Hope we don't need to go that high Wink

Hi guys.
Now, We are mining with 5.3Phash Grin

Have a good day and better luck Wink

Antuam

PPOC

hero member

Activity: 575

Merit: 500

Quote from: SergES on July 23, 2015, 10:07:27 PM

Help come in...2 Ths. Enough to quarrel.

Better break it now, 2.4 Ph just came in to help kill this 550% block. Yesterday Slush had a 900%+ block. Hope we don't need to go that high Wink

SergES

member

Activity: 81

Merit: 10

Help come in...2 Ths. Enough to quarrel.

AJRGale

hero member

Activity: 767

Merit: 500

Quote from: WBF1 on July 23, 2015, 11:40:13 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on July 23, 2015, 11:08:35 AM

Quote from: tlhIlwI on July 23, 2015, 10:21:28 AM

Sadly, I just had a SP20 die after a power outage, so that's 1.45T less from here Sad

I'm working on it now, but it doesn't look promising. I can get it to SD boot, but only inside an air conditioned environment. As soon as I put it next to the other miners (~30C) it will not boot.

That sucks. Try clocking it lower. It may work.

I had an ASIC I had to disable on a SP20E recently. Lots of issues cropping up with these little miners lately. So much for the "professional" and "carrier grade" designations...

they are all about a year old now, for something pumping at 100% most of the time, i expect it to go pop, laptops, even business class don't last any more then 1.5 years.

if you were close to my shop, i'd ask to look at it and maybe clean the heatsinks and reseat them, see if that would help..

Quote from: jonnybravo0311 on July 23, 2015, 12:44:08 PM

does people yell at a car that takes them to work? or do they yell at them when the battery goes flat when they try and start it?
people celebrate when things go right and work good, and anger when it doesn't.

none the less, its all about trying to find a usable pattern in a world of chaotic noise. just to find a nonce in a doubled sha256 "block" once its been found and confirmed, new block gets generated..

Hell, you could do this calculation on pen&paper if you want, 0.05hashes/minute if you're good at math.

jonnybravo0311

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Mine at Jonny's Pool

Mikestang

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Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Quote from: xstr8guy on July 23, 2015, 03:18:46 AM

At some point don't we have to cut our losses and simply assume that there's something wrong with the pool and bail? I've already shutdown my less efficient miners because of this bad luck.

I'd hate to lose my shares that I've built up during this time but I simply can't run my gear with no revenue incoming. I hate to think that I can't support small pools but the reality is... I can't justify (under any circumstances) an entire week without finding a block. Sad

I would agree with your assessment of shutting down less efficient miners during a difficult block, but don't get crazy and assume that there's something wrong with the pool just because it's stuck on a bad luck block. Look at the Block Statistics on the web page. The last 10 blocks were super lucky! The pendulum swings both ways, and the history of this pool shows that there are more good luck block than bad luck.

It's a conundrum that many people don't like small pools, but if more people supported this pool then it wouldn't be "small".

Quote from: pekatete on July 23, 2015, 04:26:13 AM

You post nonsense for the simple and selfish persuits of your signature campaign. On a good day I'd call that signature campaign trolling, but I'd be feeding the troll in you to troll even more. I call you what I perceive you to be from your posts, and you are a pathetic troll (and so what if I can't quote more than one post, if at all ... it's a troll's toolkit).

Wow, how original - just because I have a paid signature everything I post must be spam, right? Welcome to my ignore list.

tlhIlwI

sr. member

Activity: 305

Merit: 250

This will be my last post on this since this is drifting off topic. Anyway...

I have the SP20 running again, sort of. I can always get it to start perfectly indoors, but it will not start as expected in the garage. Through trial and error I've figured out how to get it to boot when in the garage. I have to bring the miner inside to an air conditioned environment, then I run a hair dryer into the air intake to warm things up a bit (about 30-60 seconds). After that I quickly move it to the garage, and plug it in. It starts right up. I've replicated the result three times now.

I discovered this after testing my original hypothesis that the problem was thermal related (the cold air in the house letting it start). To test that hypothesis, while inside the house I warmed up the miner with a hair dryer to see if it would fail to start due to heat. It still started fine which meant it wasn't the cold air that was letting it start. Just after that it started fine in the garage also, but a few minutes later it no longer would. Nothing would bring it back to life except the hair dryer inside the house, and that consistently brought it back to life. I have no idea how long that ritual will continue to work until it is done for completely. So it's not temperature... humidity maybe?

Now if only that ritual would help us crack this block!...

WBF1

sr. member

Activity: 419

Merit: 250

Quote from: philipma1957 on July 23, 2015, 11:08:35 AM

Quote from: tlhIlwI on July 23, 2015, 10:21:28 AM

Sadly, I just had a SP20 die after a power outage, so that's 1.45T less from here Sad

I'm working on it now, but it doesn't look promising. I can get it to SD boot, but only inside an air conditioned environment. As soon as I put it next to the other miners (~30C) it will not boot.

That sucks. Try clocking it lower. It may work.

I had an ASIC I had to disable on a SP20E recently. Lots of issues cropping up with these little miners lately. So much for the "professional" and "carrier grade" designations...

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4354

Merit: 9201

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: tlhIlwI on July 23, 2015, 10:21:28 AM

Sadly, I just had a SP20 die after a power outage, so that's 1.45T less from here Sad

I'm working on it now, but it doesn't look promising. I can get it to SD boot, but only inside an air conditioned environment. As soon as I put it next to the other miners (~30C) it will not boot.

That sucks. Try clocking it lower. It may work.

tlhIlwI

sr. member

Activity: 305

Merit: 250

Sadly, I just had a SP20 die after a power outage, so that's 1.45T less from here Sad

I'm working on it now, but it doesn't look promising. I can get it to SD boot, but only inside an air conditioned environment. As soon as I put it next to the other miners (~30C) it will not boot.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4354

Merit: 9201

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: WBF1 on July 23, 2015, 09:14:38 AM

Quote from: PPOC on July 23, 2015, 08:52:26 AM

Quote from: kano on July 23, 2015, 06:42:21 AM

Yet another reason why not to mine on Eligius.

They hide the truth.

My recent post about the facts about their payout system got deleted:

Quote from: noobtrader on July 07, 2015, 12:39:33 AM

Quote from: kano on July 06, 2015, 06:40:39 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on July 04, 2015, 07:42:51 AM

...
Thank for the great pool, i feel like im getting double profit yesterday... maybe this incident makes lot of miner mining wrong fork and so for us it seem difficulty get halved Huh

Your maximum payout on CPPSRB is PPS - no more.

yes, but i do feel that i get more from usual payment. maybe from transaction fee Huh

CPPSRB pays you a maximum of 100% PPS - no more - but usually less.

To put it in the simplest terms:
Don't believe wizkid057 or Luke-jr, one likes to hide the truth and the other lies regularly.

Their pool has bad luck caused by them and their software.

You must of course remember that the Luck statistic is NOT only random block finding luck but also includes the pool latency and related problems, which Eligius has, that I have proven before with many repeated simple tests.

So now that we crossed the 500% percent mark, I think that means shares will be dropping off on the back end, so only the last 500% when a block is hit will be paid, correct?

My understanding is that it functions Iike a 500% "wide" sliding window. Your portion of any payout is based on data within that 500% wide window. This would mean that the window now includes only work on this block and because it has been more than 500% since the last block, data begins to be discarded when calculating payouts. The discarded data is what is before the current 500% window and after the last payout... About an 8.6% "wide" window of data that is now to be discarded at the time of this post (508.6% on current block).

Can someone more knowledgeable validate my understanding, or tear it to shreds?

To add just a bit more the 500% mark is larger then most pools to avoid this problem. Kano's pool very rarely gets to this point of dropping shares off the backend. This is one of the reasons I still use his pool on and off.

I think he has past 500% not more then 3 of 282 blocks but my memory is meh. The wide 500% numbers allows for me or anyone to drop 250th in for 5 shifts in a cold streak in an effort to break the block. If The block remains unbroken I could still get some btc in the following blocks made as I won't fall off the back end for 5 or 6 days.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4634

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: WBF1 on July 23, 2015, 09:14:38 AM

...
My understanding is that it functions Iike a 500% "wide" sliding window. Your portion of any payout is based on data within that 500% wide window. This would mean that the window now includes only work on this block and because it has been more than 500% since the last block, data begins to be discarded when calculating payouts. The discarded data is what is before the current 500% window and after the last payout... About an 8.6% "wide" window of data that is now to be discarded at the time of this post (508.6% on current block).

Can someone more knowledgeable validate my understanding, or tear it to shreds?

Yes correct.
Unpaid shifts (of shares) are now being "effectively" thrown off the end.

I updated the web site Help->Payouts not long ago also to explain it a little better.
https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout

WBF1

sr. member

Activity: 419

Merit: 250

Quote from: PPOC on July 23, 2015, 08:52:26 AM

Quote from: kano on July 23, 2015, 06:42:21 AM

Yet another reason why not to mine on Eligius.

They hide the truth.

My recent post about the facts about their payout system got deleted:

Quote from: noobtrader on July 07, 2015, 12:39:33 AM

Quote from: kano on July 06, 2015, 06:40:39 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on July 04, 2015, 07:42:51 AM

...
Thank for the great pool, i feel like im getting double profit yesterday... maybe this incident makes lot of miner mining wrong fork and so for us it seem difficulty get halved Huh

Your maximum payout on CPPSRB is PPS - no more.

yes, but i do feel that i get more from usual payment. maybe from transaction fee Huh

CPPSRB pays you a maximum of 100% PPS - no more - but usually less.

So now that we crossed the 500% percent mark, I think that means shares will be dropping off on the back end, so only the last 500% when a block is hit will be paid, correct?

PPOC

hero member

Activity: 575

Merit: 500

Quote from: philipma1957 on July 23, 2015, 07:58:33 AM

Quote from: xstr8guy on July 23, 2015, 03:18:46 AM

I have supported this pool on and off. I Have supported solo.ckpool pretty much on.
variance or luck can suck bigtime.
But for you guys to complain just look below 12 blocks in a row all good times. So you caught a shit one a 99% cdf it happens what about the 12 good ones here.

281   365637   bitminerpro_S3R.2059A0C3EB62 >>> 25.08284573   2015-07-17 01:26:22+00   Matured   13,415,052,999   26.26%   0.231
280   365602   melancon_004 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.33853126   2015-07-16 19:32:15+00   Matured   40,757,569,911   79.80%   0.550
279   365509   canaan.dq6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.07354634   2015-07-16 01:55:45+00   Matured   7,657,237,878   14.99%   0.139
278   365491   melancon_022 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.16632509   2015-07-15 22:33:56+00   Matured   32,902,151,742   64.42%   0.475
277   365383   canaan.dqe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.12963832   2015-07-15 07:53:32+00   Matured   49,003,014,038   95.94%   0.617
276   365257   BTCWoman.3Jo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.13419375   2015-07-14 09:29:50+00   Matured   11,465,257,986   22.45%   0.201
275   365224   canaan.dq6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.47074934   2015-07-14 04:05:35+00   Matured   7,315,108,528   14.32%   0.133
274   365204   canaan.dq6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.16541863   2015-07-14 00:42:52+00   Matured   36,505,299,231   71.47%   0.511
273   365089   canaan.dq6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.09490192   2015-07-13 07:47:38+00   Matured   15,464,398,776   30.28%   0.261
272   365061   canaan.dq6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.18186700   2015-07-13 00:38:41+00   Matured   23,959,388,224   46.91%   0.374
271   365003   aluz.18 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 26.16233241   2015-07-12 14:01:22+00   Matured   15,866,544,419   31.06%   0.267
270   364961   melancon_020 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 25.25408248   2015-07-12 07:24:10+00   Matured   16,479,406,100   32.26%   0.276

I have not mined here in a while and I am being crushed at mmpool.org at this time. But I will send 250th here for a bit.

Thanks for the 250+. hope that helps us get over this killer block. Slush killed a block that was over 900% about 8 hours ago and now they are on to another almost 200% block so far, again my comments that last 2 days now very few blocks outside china. very odd. Ghash also had a 2 day block they just hit, only ones doing well are the China pools. Hmmmm

PPOC

hero member

Activity: 575

Merit: 500

Quote from: kano on July 23, 2015, 06:42:21 AM

Yet another reason why not to mine on Eligius.

They hide the truth.

My recent post about the facts about their payout system got deleted:

Quote from: noobtrader on July 07, 2015, 12:39:33 AM

Quote from: kano on July 06, 2015, 06:40:39 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on July 04, 2015, 07:42:51 AM

...
Thank for the great pool, i feel like im getting double profit yesterday... maybe this incident makes lot of miner mining wrong fork and so for us it seem difficulty get halved Huh

Your maximum payout on CPPSRB is PPS - no more.

yes, but i do feel that i get more from usual payment. maybe from transaction fee Huh

CPPSRB pays you a maximum of 100% PPS - no more - but usually less.

So now that we crossed the 500% percent mark, I think that means shares will be dropping off on the back end, so only the last 500% when a block is hit will be paid, correct?

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4354

Merit: 9201

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: xstr8guy on July 23, 2015, 03:18:46 AM

kano

legendary

Activity: 4634

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Yet another reason why not to mine on Eligius.

They hide the truth.

My recent post about the facts about their payout system got deleted:

Quote from: noobtrader on July 07, 2015, 12:39:33 AM

Quote from: kano on July 06, 2015, 06:40:39 PM

Quote from: noobtrader on July 04, 2015, 07:42:51 AM

...
Thank for the great pool, i feel like im getting double profit yesterday... maybe this incident makes lot of miner mining wrong fork and so for us it seem difficulty get halved Huh

Your maximum payout on CPPSRB is PPS - no more.

yes, but i do feel that i get more from usual payment. maybe from transaction fee Huh

CPPSRB pays you a maximum of 100% PPS - no more - but usually less.