Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 420. (Read 5352527 times)

Thanks for bumping up your max hash rate to include me...  I have not clue how well I will do since I have only been mining since August 2017 so I guess we will see..  Since we are going for easier to explain, I think it is best to switch to something tangible.  Since I like cookies, this analogy will be 1 cookie = 1 share.  The 5nd is 5 times the difficulty.  Lets keep it simple and say that the difficulty is 20, so 5nd is 100.  There is one cookie jar that can hold exactly 100 cookies which everyone is sharing.  This is a special cookie jar where the bottom kicks out and throws away old cookies when another goes in (so the cookies are always fresh).   For this example, lets say there are 3 miners working on filling the cookie jar.  Each miner is making their own cookie type at different rates.  The long term miner (miner 1) can make 1 peanut butter per minute.  Our miner (miner 2) can make 3 chocolate chip cookies per minute and the third miner (miner 3) can make 6 ginger snaps per minute.  Obviously if I ate all these cookies, I would not like cookies any longer, but you get the idea...
 
To keep it a little simpler, we will assume the block reward is 100 BTC, that cookie jar is initially filled only with peanut butter cookies (100 of them) and that full cookies are submitted once per minute – even though an S9 miner can do 13.5 Trillion hashes per second and the difficulty is also in the trillions, so in reality, our cookies are broken up into billions of pieces per second - but who wants to eat crumbs.  

So when we start mining, the cookie jar is full of other miner’s cookies and none of ours (so sad – no BTC if a block is found).  After each minute, miner 1 adds 1 peanut butter cookie to the jar, we add 3 chocolate chip cookies and miner 3 adds 6 ginger snaps and 10 old peanut butter cookies drop out of the bottom to the trash (or maybe I ate them).  Lets assume we find a block after minute 5.  There have been 5 peanut butter cookies, 15 chocolate chips and 30 ginger snaps added (and 50 old peanut butter cookies removed) so there are a total of 100 – 50 + 5 = 55 peanut butter cookies which is 55% of the jar, 15 chocolate chips which is 15% and 30 ginger snaps which is 30% of the jar.  So 100 BTC  gets distributed based on the percentages (actually 99.1 BTC gets distributed since Kano gets .9%).

If another block gets hit 5 minutes later, there have been a total of 10 peanut butter cookies added (5 new ones), 30 chocolate chips and 60 ginger snaps added (and all 100 of the old peanut butter cookies have been removed) so there are a total of 100 – 100 + 10 = 10 peanut butter cookies which is 10% of the jar, 30 chocolate chips which is 30% and 60 ginger snaps which is 60% of the jar.  So the second 100 BTC gets distributed based on the percentages.

Assuming that these miners continue to contribute the exact same amount with no new miners, when a cookie is added, a cookie is removed so the percentages stay the same going forward.  When that happens, you are getting the most payout you can.  Obviously if your miner goes down for a few minutes, you wont submit cookies so your percentage goes down a little but not a lot.  Also as more miners submit cookies to the jar, your percentage of the jar goes down (and your old cookies fall out a little faster).  The other thing that messes with all this is that when the difficulty goes up every couple weeks, the cookie jar gets bigger – and the cookies that fell out from the smaller jar get added back into the bottom of the jar in the order they left (so the analogy is not as good then).

So in my view of PPLNS, it really has nothing to do with “ramping” at all.  It is more about how many cookies you have put in the jar compared to everyone else.  So if I were to win the 50TH for 5 days, there would simply be a more chocolate chip cookies added to the top of jar for those 5 days over and above my 13.5TH that I have been adding to the mix since August.

Well, that is my attempt!!!  Hopefully I am not wrong and confuse everyone even more…

Been away for a bit, happy to see we have some more blocks!  Thanks canaan x 2 and biffa!

I was crunching some numbers, and I joined this pool after we found block 504409 (our block # 2202).   

Looking at the 44 days I have been mining in the pool, I have been a party to 7 blocks, with a cumulative difficulty of 1,453.543%, or roughly 207.649% per block.

If I am correct, statistically speaking, we were expecting to find about 14 blocks in that same time frame, but due to bad luck we found half of that.

So my question is, is that correct?  Am I reading and understanding the numbers properly?   

Thanks in advance!

Back of envelope says that's probably correct. Looking at the blocks, 2202 was mid January. Overall January had over 100% luck, but mostly due to very good luck in early January. Late January had less than 100% luck average and all of February was pretty bad... 44% luck. So yeah I could buy your numbers.

Been away for a bit, happy to see we have some more blocks!  Thanks canaan x 2 and biffa!

I was crunching some numbers, and I joined this pool after we found block 504409 (our block # 2202).   

Looking at the 44 days I have been mining in the pool, I have been a party to 7 blocks, with a cumulative difficulty of 1,453.543%, or roughly 207.649% per block.

If I am correct, statistically speaking, we were expecting to find about 14 blocks in that same time frame, but due to bad luck we found half of that.

So my question is, is that correct?  Am I reading and understanding the numbers properly?   

Thanks in advance!

Sooo nice to wake up to a found Block!!!

My take on a post from Kano a long while back:

The 5Nd "ramp" means it takes that long to reward your shares.  It's not a punishment and The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.  Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.  That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares each time a block is found.  So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward, but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block.  On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block.  On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid.  That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck.  If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.
If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times. (Love it when it hits 10-12 times!)
If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners go down for a couple of hours or are down for a day.  You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down.  I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

Hi,
I am new to the pool. 
I have joined few days back. I am cranking around 37Th/s

So just wanted to check how exactly are shifts and rewards calculated.

Here are my shifts on the last block.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1eb92ekp0xha2v/shifts.JPG?dl=0

And here is the reward.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sf8e3wv1nnez7bl/reward.JPG?dl=0

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s. 

Thanks.

Hi,
I am new to the pool. 
I have joined few days back. I am cranking around 37Th/s

So just wanted to check how exactly are shifts and rewards calculated.

Here are my shifts on the last block.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1eb92ekp0xha2v/shifts.JPG?dl=0

And here is the reward.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sf8e3wv1nnez7bl/reward.JPG?dl=0

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s. 

Thanks.

Welp, my plan took a dive. I'm gonna tweak my rules a bit and give it one last shot before I call it off because it's going to get lost in the pages anyway. I think the changes will open it up to a lot more miners who may have a good answer (including NEW miners).

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BTC  5 day - 50 TH/s giveaway !!!! BTC


I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 20 TH/s
2- The rewarded hash has to be pointed at Kano's pool.  (to be confirmed by Kano)
3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.
4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with his own example in response to the submitted answer and have the answer's accuracy verified by Kano.
5- New miners to the pool are welcome, though you will have had to have been here for at least the last block (this will help ramp your 5Nd up much sooner!!)

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.
I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!! There was talk of others donating some hash too. If their offer is still good, that hash will be separate and in addition to the 50 TH/s I am donating.

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.


Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course I dindt work all shifts for the block but reward looks so tiny for 3 days of cranking with approx 37Th/s. 

Yes I know. My replies were meant jokingly. There are probably 500 questions/complaints in the thread already - "why are my payments less than poolx", "I hash at this or that TH/s but my share stats look like they are divided by 5" etc.

You're missing the point of the contest though.  Read the rules.

Well considering most blocks are not very high in transactions at the moment - as I said - a block is a block
Antpoo just had a 8,387 byte block - even smaller - 1/3 of the transactions we had
The last block above 16BTC was 34 blocks ago, block 511,574 coz it was a 40 minute block.
I certainly don't think a block close to 100% is unlucky ...

Not had much luck lately, another Friday block, lets crack another one today..

Smaller size = less BTC?