Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 434. (Read 5352229 times)

vertical bar is pay time
=  is the period of times that the paybot looks at to see what your shars are of the pay
0   is where u are mining
*   paybot on the time line
                                                                    
   |-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| time lines


pay 1   |-----*----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|  (start)
            0000
            ===


pay 2   |-----|----*----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|    (ramp up the bot looks back 5 sections u only working 2)
           0000 0000
           === ===

pay 5   |-----|----|----|----|----*----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|    (you stop mining here)
           0000 0000 000 000 000
           === === === == ==


pay 7   |-----|----|----|----|----|----|----*----|----|----|----|----|----|    (ramping down u are only payed for 3 sections here cause you stoped at section 5)(3 more paydays and you will stop getting paid ! )
           0000 000 000 000  000                                                            
                          === == == === ==

not much good at drawing especially on forum but this is the way i sorta see it

I assume you are referring to the dragonmint?

For the time being just think of it like this:

Once ramped up you get paid the same as proportional for the shares you submit for a given round.

Add the Ramp-Up shares to the Ramp-Down shares and that time period will be approximately proportional as well.

Easy Peasy.

Indeed there is: kano.is>workers>shift graph (assuming you have setup an account)
Mine on! 

dont rush into s9's the new chip will be out soon and there will be a whole new level to move too.

I like all the different explanations. It’s actually making a lot more sense to me.
I wonder if anyone has a visual or graphical explanation as well

Based on statistics, a certain hash rate is expected to return a certain value of BTC based on the number of shares it submits. In general, submitting the number of shares equal to the difficulty will result in a block.
3,007,383,866,429 is the current difficulty. Again, based on statistics, the pool would, on average find a block every 3,007,383,866,429 shares. That's the 100% number.

In order to prevent pool hopping, and to be more fair, the pool actually pays out over the last 5 times this number of shares (or a little over 15 trillion.)

The pool keeps track of every valid share submitted. When we find a block, it looks back over the last 15 trillion or so shares and gives a fractional credit to every person who had one. So it's basically dividing the 12.5 BTC reward and whatever tx fees by 15 trillion, and then assigning each valid share part of that reward.

The more valid shares you have, the higher the reward.

Because of this math, we are expected to get 5 blocks in 5ND. This means you get 100% of your expected reward.

Sometimes, we get blocks in under the 100% share number. Again, whenever we find a block, it looks back at those 5ND shares (15 trillion at 3 trillion diff) and awards those. If we're lucky, that means our shares actually get more than their expected reward.

Also sometimes, we have bad luck. That means a share gets less than its expected reward.

The important thing to keep in mind is that statistics work over large sizes. One month or two could be outside of this, but then the next month is super good, and then the rest are averages. These numbers will only come to light after hundreds of blocks.

I'll try explaining at least a part of PPLNS.

Every time a block is mined, the number of shares rewarded is approximately 5 times the difficulty when the block was mined- at this moment the N value would be around 15T, so the last 15T shares would be rewarded per block and this count does not reset when a new block is found. Because of the 5N, as you mine rewards will stack on each other until you hit the 5nd, when you will be fully rewarded. You eventually create a running average. When you stop mining, the 5N moves keeps moving 'forward' and less of your shares are rewarded until all your shares are completely out of the 5N, which is the ramp-down. The last 5N also listed at the bottom of the Rewards page: https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout



(rephrasing Kano a bit here)

Because the N in PPLNS is 5 times the difficulty, 5 blocks at 100% difficulty means you get your full reward. If more or less blocks are found then you just put the number as the numerator on a fraction with the denominator as 5, and the resulting number times your expected reward is what you are paid.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quoting an older post:

Just put both my S4's on ebay. Going to upgrade. With that and my fluke meter, I might get close enough to 2 S9's  the balance from my pocket.

CRACK
CRACK
CRACK
CRACK!

MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!

i have an idea!!!

i will give away my S7 hash rate with two good boards (~3TH) for 7 days to the one that makes me understand what kano san explained in a way that my dumb ass can understand. 

so i have been mining for less than a year. i have to say i have learned a lot. i know how this pool works and i am perfectly fine with it. i also love the community aspect in it. i also understand why some people dont mine here. now i will be honest, i will need to seat down and read this one a bunch of times to see if anything sticks because its a big mouth full to me, i usually understand better with graphics and visual stuff, my little brain has a hard time remembering too many sentences in a row. i will keep reading and MINE ON!!!
 

got contest for big hashes got contest for small hashes they all dodge around the standard S9 output grrr :/.
  my take on the 5nd. example when block is found your share is 10$ the 5nd splits it up into 2 dollar chunks to be payed out over the next 5 payout times. when a 2nd block is found that a second 10$ broken up pinto 5 chunks so u get 2 $ the first block and on second block u get 2$ from first block and 2$ for second block making 4$ on second payout. on third block it goes to 6 then 8 then 10 and stays there till u quit and then u start collecting smaller and smaller amounts over next few blocks even though u are no longer mining.  this is all based on same numbers coming out to 10 on each payout. this seems to be done to discourage pool jumping and to spread out pay to smooth over pay spikes and dips in the graph. of coarse i jst started mining the other day so could be way off 

i love games!!! lets play!!!!

It's easier to think of it as I said

If you mine T TH/s for H hrs then you expect to be rewarded exactly that T for H hours.
and that expected amount is 100% PPS times the MeanTxn% minus the pool fee (0.9%)

The PPLNS process means that you wont get that in the next reward, you'll expect to get that over the H hrs + 5Nd after you start mining
which is of course 5Nd after you stop mining (since you mined for H hrs)

However that bolded word expect is important.
It means that's assuming 100% luck and 5 blocks in the next 500% (5Nd) each 100% apart.
What actually happens will depend on luck and will of course never exactly match that.
Long term you expect to average out 100% luck, but short term mining is VERY much luck based.

So if there's only 2 blocks in the 500% (5Nd) then your reward will only be about 2/5 of what's expected.
If there's 8 blocks in the 500% (5Nd) then your reward will be 8/5 of what's expected.
Again, what's expected is the 100% PPS value of T TH/s for H hrs of mining (times the MeanTxn% minus the pool fee)

If you have other hash rate already going to your account, that can be ignored for this calculation.
This calculation is to work out what will be added on top of whatever is already going on in your account.
It wont change the calculation of your other hash rate reward - it's simply added on top.

Edit: I guess the clearest way to understand this is from the following lines in the Help->Payouts page:
(I added the green highlighting)
The important part to understand is that the reward process works on each share individually.
The shift a share ends up in, determines how many times it will be rewarded.
The number of times a shift is rewarded depends on how often the shift is inside the 5Nd of a block -
but the value of each reward the share gets is based on the difficulty of the share itself.

Go to sleep...and crack the block!

MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!

Yes you do!!   Really, we all should understood it quite well. So, here's the deal......

I'm going to up the stakes and hold you accountable with a new promotion lol!!!  ***** 50 TH/s *****

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 10 TH/s
2- You have to have been mining with this hash for at least the last 5 blocks (to be confirmed by Kano)
3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.
4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with an example in response to the submitted answer and confirmed by KANO.

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.
I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!!

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

I really don't want to piss off the head honcho either, so if this is crossing any lines or boundaries, please let me know!

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: I may have noticed my first mistake and I'm going to attempt to adjust this. Unless padrinogtr really needed this breakdown, I may tweak the rules to the best description from a miner who meets the first 3 rules, but who's answer reaches 10 votes for the best answer. What do you think?

***NOTE*** This competition is not yet valid until I get the "OK" from Kano and will get the details sorted out. SO SAVE YOUR ANSWERS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE PLEASE!!

I don’t even wanna understand it. It’s just too much for my little brain. Mine on!!!

I must have confused myself somewhere down the line just when I thought I understood it correctly. Can we expand on that example a little more? My brain catches on quicker with a detailed example.....

So, let's say someone has been mining for at least enough to have ramped up their 4 TH/s and was awarded another 4 TH/s as part of a giveaway and a block was found around 200 % difficulty from when the reward was added. To be clear, it only counts back shares equal to that 2Nd period since the last block, correct? Then the promotion expires and the extra hash starts to ramp down and another block isn't found until say another 300%. Those 2 blocks that total the 500% end up paying for the entire 4 TH/s that was added spread out over subsequent blocks up to 5Nd, no?

This is how I understand it and I'm confused why I worded it the way I did above. It was Friday and I had the weekend on my mind I guess.

I do have the correct understanding of how the 5Nd pays the shares though, right?

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