Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary - page 136. (Read 435369 times)

I ordered 10 of the PIC16LF1459-I/SS.
If you having a hard time getting a hold of some for prototyping, Email me, I could part with a few.

Who ever is planning on doing bulk orders, might be a good idea to get the order in on these early to
make sure they put their manufacturing efforts into producing some sooner rather than later.

Bkk,

I have said it before, but I will say it again... especially in light of the o-scope a couple of pages back.

If you need anything, please let me know.
I would have purchased the oscilliscope and had it shipped to you.

I am BTC poor, but I am doing okay with fiat.

I want to help, I only need to know how.

Kano isn't too blame here.

It is totally reasonable that he should get units for his contributions.

It's not favoritism or nepotism or what-not. He has rare useful skills which he is being equitably rewarded for having.

It's similar to how a video game company can get early free prototype video cards from NVIDIA so that they can use, promote, and program for them in advance.

BFL shipping out sample units to journalists to drum up more pre-order sales before even shipping in any reasonable quantities to very old orders -- that's different imho, and not as easily justifiable.

Seems to be a barroom brawl that has spilled over into this thread, so I don't want to add to it too much, but I will say this.

Kano, your efforts ARE appreciated by many, if not most. There are a few trolls who are jealous, and have an entitlement complex that makes them think you OWE them something. This forum is OVERFLOWING with trolls and self-important entitled pricks.

But it's also got some amazing talent (people like you and BKK, for example). I'm getting into the mining game a little later than some, so I don't have any bitcoin to contribute. However, I have every intention of making donations to everybody involved in this project (software AND hardware) once I'm up and mining, and encourage others to do so as well.

There have already been a few rather significant donations made to this cause, and, if a need should arise, I'm sure that some of those funds could be redirected toward getting you some hardware in order to write support for it (provided you're actually interested in doing that). BKK has already stated that he intends to write a driver, so, unless he runs into something he can't tackle, we may not even be required to call upon your services any further than we already do by using your software on a daily basis.

Regardless, support for the CGminer developers is warranted. And anybody with any sense of honor/fairness who avails themselves of it in any meaningful way should feel compelled to donate back, even if there's no 'gun to their head' or hard-coded donation schema forcing their hand.

Personally, I tend to be far more generous with voluntary donations, than mandatory (eg, I usually tip 20%, but if there's a MANDATORY 15% tip, I don't tip the difference).

Not saying that I wouldn't tip more than the target of $2/card even if it's hard-coded. And I know a lot of people don't think like me. They see "free" (gratis) and it translates in their minds to "I deserve this", and they never look back.

I guess you just have to weigh the benefits of a 'mandatory' donation for the selfish pricks, vs open donations. Will the mandatory donation put a fixed value on it for people who otherwise would have valued it higher? I don't know. But I do know that every time I've worked for free, my work has, from that point forward, been valued by MOST recipients at $0. This is why I don't fix other people's computers or cars for free anymore.

What is your reward target? Maybe we can all pool in to make the source open from day one. This would also give the community an opportunity to look at the code for bugs, if any. TerraHash would be happy to chip in a bigger share.

@Kano. Just because some people are willing to work for free, doesn't mean everybody else has to. Did Avalon open source their chip design? No. At least BKKcoins is willing to open source his code, and I don't see why he should not be rewarded for his work. Not trying to get into an argument with you guys, just my 2 cents.

Ok. I see I stepped into something I wasn't aware of. I haven't been reading much on the forums the last few weeks.

My preference would be to use cgminer. I'm familiar with it, have used it for for 2 years, and hacked on it a little before and my language of choice is C. Though I have used Python more lately it seems.

@kano + bicknellski:

Chill out please.

If some boards are required for CGMiner support, some boards will be provided. It's all too early anyway.

No one is "due" anything but there is no reason not to facilitate the group effort nor to recognize the participation of individuals. Let's just not make this into sth it's not.

Pretty please?

(copy in the other thread as well)

No, my reply was directly to Bicknellski - he seems upset with my awe at BFL's ASIC chips.
So much so that when I made this post:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2223280

He followed it up with a post telling them to ignore me (yes that is what he is saying)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2240759

Or all in one post:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2244437

Wondering if Modular Python Bitcoin Miner would be something we could ask TheSeven to adapt for the Klondike? I do enjoy the ease of use and the consistency I get from it with the X6500's I am running. Anyone want to approach him?

In context, I don't think it was directed at you. I'm new here, so I could be wrong, but it seems that Kano and a couple people involved in this thread have issues with each other. From what I've seen, jealousy because Kano got a BFL jalapeno while damn near everyone else who ordered will get theirs "in two weeks".

Me, I'm still kicking myself for not getting in on bitcoin when it first started. I was aware of it, but other things in my chaotic life caused me to forget. The missed opportunity cost me a lot, so now I'm trying to catch this wave. Your project appears to be the most likely to go to market at a reasonable cost in a reasonable time frame, so I'm watching. And as I mentioned previously, I'm gaining a lot of knowledge.

Having read both of you for a few weeks now, I think that the bickering that goes on here is just that: bickering. You and Kano seem to both be reasonable and smart people. And a bit stressed out I think you should grab that beer like a previous poster said.

Hey. That's awesome. Thank you.
I'm going to put that towards the DSO. 

@kano
I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from. You sound upset about something. This project is still in development. There is no board yet, (though I've ordered some test boards now), there is no cgminer driver yet, and there is just the beginnings of firmware. It sounds like you don't want me to use cgminer as the miner software for some reason. So far I've only looked at the Avalon driver to see how that works with the Avalon. I haven't asked anyone to provide hardware support for this project and I really don't understand what you're talking about here. I know you guys have done lots of other drivers and supported other hardware. I guess you're trying to say I shouldn't expect anything from CK or you. OK. I had intended to do my own work and put it out there for others when it's ready. To me that is open source. People have been swarming around me trying to get me to release everything when I haven't even written it yet. They want to order boards and make their products to ship before the chips arrive, and I don't even have a final PCB design yet. And now you're here telling me my project isn't real open source. It will be when I release it.

You need some good alcohol this Memorial Day weekend for all your hard work.

Yes, I know you're not in the US, but anyway...sent you 0.321 BTC.

Go buy yourself some good shiznit. You've earned it.

" I should probably just get off the forums and work on the code - this is a big, but also compelling, distraction. I haven't done much real work today."


I did not thought this perspective . You are right.
If you need any support just ask me  . I'll stop to write posts and PM with questions for now.
Sorry for the chasing you last few days. Just too excited to get things rolling , like most of the people around

Lulz I just read your earlier post yesterday - another person who thinks that the 35,000 lines of C code in cgminer count for nothing when you use it.
I'm not surprised though.

This project "from the ground up" is not actually from the ground up on the software side, only on the firmware and hardware.

Cgminer is indeed open source, more so than any part of this project.
People are not required to pay anything in advance to use it - it is indeed free to use without any requirements other than GPLv3.

However, we as developers spend a lot of our time supporting people who buy a lot of hardware from people such as yourself.
Thus we support the hardware we have and it makes perfect sense that we cannot properly support the hardware we don't have.

What has clearly happened in the case of Avalon, is that the bug fixes and advances in cgminer since avalon came out have been slow to be implemented for the users to use.
CKolivas (in the few weeks he has had access to an Avalon, owned by someone who bought one, not in any way supplied by Avalon themselves) has resolved quite a few problems with the code in there already.
The last few avalon releases by xiangfu use ckolivas' changes to specifically resolve problems with avalon.

It does seem strange that you think I should support your hardware for free.
Not unexpected though.

However, there are companies that have in the past and do support cgminer by supplying us with hardware so that we can support it also:
Ckolivas has received a 7970 GPU in the past from forum members and thus added GCN support to cgminer
I received an Icarus over a year ago and have over that year written and rewritten the Icarus support code and supported it (and implemented the only significant gains in it since the first version)
I've received a Mod Miner Quad and wrote a complete driver for it twice (once serial-USB and once USB) and supported it since late last year.
Both myself and ckolivas have received a Jalapeno and had that supported and mining in cgminer in less than 6 hours.
Both myself and ckolivas have received a Black Arrow Lancelot and I've added support for that properly and give them links to get it already and provided support even for that already and it will be in the next cgminer release
I've received an Asicminer Block Erupter USB and cgminer code now supports that fully by default also.
I'm not quite sure where in any of that you consider that to be any issue or in any way AT ALL against the ideals of open source?
All our source for these have been available in our public gits and released in each subsequent version of cgminer.
Nothing hidden and no false or unrelated stories made up about debug code.

I haven't been following cgminer for a long time now. I'm not up on what has been happening lately, or if there is animosity over there, but I have been using it. I did contribute some code way, way back and IMO CK probably doesn't get nearly enough support for the effort he's put in over several years, and the extent to which cgminer is important to mining. I did make a note up above that I thought he deserves support but that I have no way to enforce it. What I'm exploring now is if there is a way to push Klondike through a period where support is mandatory on the way to being fully open source, where people can do whatever they like.

I haven't read the cgminer license. If there is something I'm doing that isn't allowed then let me know and I'll adapt. I have no intention of Klondike becoming close source or keeping the cgminer Klondike driver private. I think I'm allowed to create the firmware as I choose but maybe I don't know how the GPLv3 works.

Clearly everyone is very eager to get this ASAP. And I'm feeling a lot of pressure that I didn't anticipate when I started out. People are planning production runs and contacting me every day about details related to what they need to satisfy their assembly quotes. Very generous people are sending money my way to help get it all done. I'm grateful but also overwhelmed. I should probably just get off the forums and work on the code - this is a big, but also compelling, distraction. I haven't done much real work today.

Bkk, I have the ability to burn chips, but I'm located in the U.S. So if somebody wants to do an order on them, they can ship them to me, and I will burn them... I don't know if that's really helpful or not, but just wanted to offer...

Seems clear...

Chip in for those who contribute. I don't mind doing that when there is quid pro quo for this project and it should be especially focused toward BKKcoins.

Hello BKKcoins and group.

I'm not bright enough to build my own boards, so I'll be buying them off of someone when the time comes. I'm leaning towards Terrahash, though that is far from final. I do indeed think that you should be compensated generously for your work here. I like your idea regarding automating a donation, and frankly I am planning to do as others suggested and donate my first run to you.

Someone had noted that some people might bitch about the automated thing, and that is probably true, but I think those bitching are just looking for a free ride and should be told to get bent. Due to the nature of both bitcoin and the specialized technology, the window of opportunity on ASIC rigs is going to be fairly short. The developers getting screwed is simply immoral.

Keep up the good work. In my youth I built a lot of circuit boards, but now it's gone so far beyond my knowledge as to be magic. This thread has been worth paying for IN ITSELF just for the education y'all have given me. Even if I end up going with a different supplier (KNC miner is also on my "watchlist"), it is my intention to donate to this project solely on it's merit.

-Kevin