Topic: [Klondike] Case design thread for K16 - page 2. (Read 37958 times)

GREAT INFO there FullFathom...

Love the re-purpose of the heat to get a warm shower brilliant.

Air conditioning most likely... maintaining adequate temp gradient between environment and hardware.

http://phys.org/news/2012-09-intel-math-oil-dunk-cooler-servers.html
http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/focus/archive/2012/03/cgg-veritas-uses-liquid-cooled-servers-hpc-environment

Range... would be worth looking at heat production of existing Avalon systems. Need to poke around on forum for that... and electricity cost is another variable. Commercial/industrial rates are typically cheaper than residential.

Can you tell where this power decrease comes from and in what range it lies?

Interesting info on oil choices:
IEC 60422, IEC 60296 (Google search should turn up some useful links) and

http://www.power-eng.com/whitepapers/2012/shell.whitepaperpdf.render.pdf

I think oil and cubes design could be integrated. If you couple the heated oil to water, you can generate hot water and save on that as well. Some ideas to ponder from the world of power transformers http://www.electrical4u.com/transformer-cooling-system-and-methods/

Not to be contentious, but Sebastian I think you are mistaken regarding the operation of equipment 24/7. Intel and many other data centers have done exactly that. Intel did a one year pilot study and follow up failure analysis indicated nothing of mention. There are certainly other issues in terms of maintenance, which is where good design can make a significant difference. Modular mining units (the blade designs appeal too for this reason) that have snap on feature seem like a good idea IMHO. If you search for the Intel pilot study, it is also interesting to note the significant decrease in power consumption. Considering that these miners will have a carbon footprint the likes of Godzilla rampaging through downtown Tokyo, this is a good thing *financially* for miners as well. Less cost up front.

That being said, there is the oil and despite the videos demonstrating ease of service http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zoIEjo1Zk there's still the oil. The fewer small parts to drop, misplace, recover from the bottom of the oil reservoir, the better.

Lots of design opportunities here... I don't think ordering a GRCooling Carnojet system is necessarily the most prudent solution for everyone... as pointed out previously the shipping costs are likely crippling.

I think I have personally assessed the data center idea for the current K256 idea and at least in Indonesia it is actually cheaper to rent space and build a customized data center. Indonesia has a lot of positives for going this route. Manpower is abundant especially technical know how. Space in terms of commercial buildings with access to sufficient power. Finally given fabrication of PCBs can happen at a reasonable cost I think the COOP we have set up might be a way to get things jumped started here in Indonesia. If we can see Generation 2 chips from Avalon and BKKCoins can modify his current design to suit I think then a 1U will be possible for a standard data center. Given the overclocking the 1U I propose will need 700W and the oil submerged system, with heat exchange and an external cooling tower. Given the heat in Indonesia this might just be the most cost effective system in the longer term.

My plan.

1 - K256 prototype air-cooled (600-750W PSU)
15 - K16s on stanchions with my first batch no cases
44 - K1 nanos

I do love some of the case ideas here... especially the CUBES.

Yes, i guess i have to wait someone providing something. I only thought since the raspberry is directly on the net, and the admin has to reach it through the net too, it sounds dangerous. But maybe the raspberry is capable of protecting itself good enough.

The pi is probably one of the cheapest components in the setup... In theory it could possibly run the entire rack... but id suggest maybe put 1 pi per case.. or something. This needs testing how many K16s can single pi handle... It boils down to distributing the risk by having multiple isolated systems vs one large system.

Nothing is safe. Everything that can break will break. Everything that can be attacked will be attacked, use your own judgement. I would say if setup correctly the odds of being pwnd is greatly reduced. Seems like you need to wait for someone to make raspberry pi image for k16 (maybe minepeon or something) and trust they did the right thing.

2U would be 88.9mm after standard. I checked my seasonic and i found the heigth is 86mm.
I dont think the airflow will be broken too hard with it because i dont want to create a wall of psus at the end. I only want to place one or 2 psu one after another at the end of one of the middle miner-rows maybe. So that the pulling fans can still throw the air around the psus.

Yes, i know about the power. In fact a full colocation rack with over 300 klondikes will have the powercost as biggest factor. Thats why i already look for countries with cheap power to search colocation hosting there. The rent itself is the lowest cost.

So regarding the raspberry... you say one unit could be enough for one 2u-rack? Or even the whole colocation rack maybe? And it would be possible to check over the net how everything works?
Is this safe then or might someone be able to attack from the net and do something bad to the miners? I dont have a clue how this would work.

I think ur thinking of 3U. 2U feels small to fit in standard ATX PSU. Even if u can cram it in, the air inlet would probably be sealed tight by the case.
Keep in mind its not only the rackspace ur renting. You are also buying electricity (and the cooling capacity to get rid of the heat). The datacenter will probably give you low power... and you would need to negotiate for more watts.


Linux... so ssh... Raspberry pi even has a watchdog with can make the pi reboot itself for most failures... worst case, you can ask the datacenter to power cycle your device. Some datacenters provide power strips u can power cycle remotely.

I searched for a cheap solution and im wondering what you think about this. And very sorry for the very poor skills in gimp...

Its based on 2 of these 2U racks: Link



Since each is 375mm depth i thought chaining 2 would maximize the 750mm hetzner is offering. I think they could be chained by bending the front flags that are made to mount them with screws on the colocation rack to the side and attach it to the other rack unit at the bottom. At the top i would use a metalpiece to connect both parts with screws. It should be possible to make it strong enough. If the border at the bottom end of the first rack disturbs then it could be bend too.

Then i would take 2 miners. Burnin or klondike and put both heatsinks together. Then attach a fan and make something around so that the air is forced through the heatsinks and cant escape. Then put more miners after this and so on. At the end another fan like in bicknellskis image.
All miners then are attached to the bottom with screws.

The image shows 4 pcbs without heatsink mounted to the bottom and 2 pcbs with 2 heatsinks each put together and mounted to the bottom. Again, sorry for the bad art.

Regarding the psus... 2U should be the standard height of ATX-Power supplies and those are the most cost efficient because they are widely bought and cheap produced. So i would add one or more of those at the end and put the pull fan at each minerrow a bit more to the beginning so that the airflow still is possible and the psu has enough space.

Its a cheap solution, the rack would cost 2 x 20€ only. 20€ if you would go the standard 37.5mm

Will this work?

But even when... how to remotely administrate it? Is one raspberry enough to run cgminer for all miners? And can this raspberry be reached from the net to change something? Maybe restart and so on? Anyone has a solution for the administration?
Maybe its even better to have 2 raspberries? One that can restart the first when it stopped working? Or is this overload and a cheaper unit could be used for this?

Cool designs

Thanks for answering. When you go the mineral route dont you think the hosting will be considerably more expensive? And it will be hard to find a hoster anyway i guess. Plus i read mineral oil isnt meant for running 24hours 7 days a week because its only made for dissipating heat fast. So over time the oil will become hotter and hotter, so the oil has to be cooled down too then.

Regarding DIY... i already search such rack shelfs but cant find anything looking near your and the other picture shown. But maybe i only dont have the correct searchwords.

32W per Klondike means a 1000W psu is only good for a couple of miners. On top you need to have around 4A at 12V for each of the miners. I believe most psus will be able to power less miners than they could by wattage because the Ampere on 12V is lower than this amount.
But i believe chosing the correct psu is only possible once burnin and bkkcoins tested the overclocking abilities correctly. If there are differences the price MH/$ will maybe change again too.

I searched a bit for colocation racks and found that hetzner, in germany has this offers: http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_colocation/basic and they claim a maximum server depth of 750mm. Shouldnt this be played out or is it so unusual that only hetzner offers it? They even have racks where the depth could be up to 1150mm.

Sab

Looking at the overclocking potential I think mineral oil and something along the lines of the http://www.grcooling.com/ guys set up is what I will eventually have going in the 1U variety / Gold Pan K256. No fan, keep the heat sinks. I will keep you posted as I get closer to a finished K256 and post everything up. In terms of sales... might be best to have it as kit or something where people finish them locally. Shipping anything this size will cost an arm a leg and a few internal organs plus given the issues with customs and tariffs? Not worth it but maybe a hosting situation where you buy the unit and we host it here in Indonesia might be promising but given the difficulty rise I can only see one way to go and that is group buy coop's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6IX9U2zaI_I

But the thing is that this is a 19"-enclosure to be put into a server rack. i doubt its easily possible to change a tower into such an enclosure.

I assume the designer's goal was to build it themselves.

If i needed to stuff them in cases, what id do is goto a shop selling second hand equipment (plenty of large shops selling used computers (p2/p3/p4), audio/video equipment, etc almost at scrap value) , and find some case that roughly matches the width and is off appropriate depth.

5 years ago i bought some pentium 4 computers for office at ~$60 each ... i am still harvesting them for fans/wires/etc...

Does one have to build such cases or is it prebuilt to buy somewhere? I probably dont get where to find such things or how they are named.

Bicknellski... i like your rack-plan. I would love to see an offer in the forum where one offers such a 2U (or whatever it becomes) and includes the cables needed, a matching psu that can handle overclocking too and a raspberry or something to run the software needed. Most probably a software will be needed to administrate everything from the net too.

Maybe even create a similar thing for burnins bitburner.

The datacenters seems not too expensive for such things.

I hope something is developing here. I would buy.

That is my understanding.

In theory, you are right - a gas will have less molecules per volume at less pressure, and we need as many molecules to transport that heat away as possible.

However, the kinds of fans we are talking about have very, very low "pressure" or "pull". We are not talking "vacuum cleaner" here, we are talking "to fan with a sheet of paper". Which means that
1) the "pressure-reduction" *any* fan-setup can archieve is very small. I would guess less than 1% reduction in pressure, molecules, heatcapacity.
2) The volume throughput will go down very quick, as soon as there is the slightest resistance for the fan. Meaning if the fan-datasheet states 100 cubic-something per minute, it will be reduced to 90 by just blowing into an empty case with a large hole at the opposite side. I would guess in real setups you have anything between 80% and 25% of the stated "free-running" air-throughput.
Now you can have more throughput with two fans. And push-pull helps more with the resistance-issue than it eats through the molecule-density-issue. By some magnitudes.

Also, there are axial and radial fans, the latter with way higher pressure.

Ente

Do I understand this right that the PCB is 1.6mm thick?

Ente