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Topic: Kraken Accepting MtGox Bankruptcy Claims - page 4. (Read 8267 times)

legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.
Of course there won't be enough. Otherwise Mt. Gox wouldn't be bankrupt.

The general idea is that the bankruptcy trustee accepts claims and adds them up. For this purpose, all claims are converted to yen as 1 Bitcoin = USD483 = JPY50,058.12, the exchange rates on the day the bankruptcy commenced.  The claims are added up. Then the trustee adds up what they can get for all the assets that are left. Total claims / total assets yields the fraction at which claims will be paid.

You might be able to ask to be paid in Bitcoins, but if you get some Bitcoins, the conversion price will be as of the date of the distribution, not the date of the bankruptcy, so it won't matter.

For a sense of how this works in practice in the US, see http://www.madoffrecovery.com. Japan isn't as transparent, but takes basically the same approach.

If you get paid in bitcoins it makes it easier vs yen which you'd probably have to convert at your bank via a cheque in the mail?  will read the site but im still confused on what option to pick.

kraken will pay the same as any other claim option true or false?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.
Of course there won't be enough. Otherwise Mt. Gox wouldn't be bankrupt.

The general idea is that the bankruptcy trustee accepts claims and adds them up. For this purpose, all claims are converted to yen as 1 Bitcoin = USD483 = JPY50,058.12, the exchange rates on the day the bankruptcy commenced.  The claims are added up. Then the trustee adds up what they can get for all the assets that are left. Total claims / total assets yields the fraction at which claims will be paid.

You might be able to ask to be paid in Bitcoins, but if you get some Bitcoins, the conversion price will be as of the date of the distribution, not the date of the bankruptcy, so it won't matter.

For a sense of how this works in practice in the US, see http://www.madoffrecovery.com. Japan isn't as transparent, but takes basically the same approach.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
Hello everybody,

Like all of you i received the information about the possibility to fill a claim.

I personally prefer the option to not use Kraken, there is absolutly no guarantee anyways to retrieve anything and it is clearly stated that if anything happens with Kraken you wont be able to claim anything back.

In other words your last chance to retrieve any bitcoins or cash disapear.

So i went on the process to fill the form not using kraken, i am wonderring if any of you tried that option and what happened as for me i filled all information and at the bottom of the page i was up to do the last click to send the form and, surprise...

http://prntscr.com/6xyntn

The submit button do not work ... what a bad joke

If anybody could confirm me that it is the same for you...
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?
As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)

They never sold the bitcoin yet so im actually a little confused at how any option could be a better deal other than how they go about making the payments, maybe Nagle can explain further?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

The thing is I remember people saying that they are trying to return the coins as they are. I don't think that the market capitalization is high enough to liquidate all the coins. If they really liquidate everything there wouldn't be enough to pay back creditors.
legendary
Activity: 3206
Merit: 1069
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?
As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)

25% back in bitcoin, with a value of 483 is like 50% in bitcoin with the current value, not bad i guess, or i'm missing something and the % is referring to the value in cash?
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1003
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?
As I understand it, they will refund in Bitcoin, if that is possible and allowed.
If they can't refund in bitcoin for legal reasons, then they will refund in cash.  They have given BTC a cash value from a certain time point, but there is still only so much money to go around.

I would guess that we would either receive 25% back in bitcoin, or 12.5% in cash (assuming the value of Bitcoin stays where it is now)
member
Activity: 198
Merit: 10
kraken rox
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.

So i lost 30 bitcoins in gox, if i claim via kraken i'll get approx 6 bitcoins - 20%

If i claim via option 1 i will get 6 x $483 but in yen?   i dont understand how 1 way can pay me twice as much?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
You don't have to use Kraken. There are three options. listed at http://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf, which is operated by the bankruptcy trustee.

1. Use the bankruptcy trustee's online system.
2. File on paper with the Tokyo court, in Japanese.
3. Use the Kraken system.

Option 1 is probably the best. You get paid in yen. Debts denominated in Bitcoins will be converted to yen at the price of Bitcoin the day before the bankruptcy was filed, 1 Bitcoin = $483 = 50,058.12 yen.

That's the way bankruptcy works. Everything gets liquidated down to the local currency and creditors are paid from that. You don't want to be paid in Bitcoin anyway, since the price has crashed since the bankruptcy and is way below $483 now.
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000

There is going to be a ton of coin left over from people not wanting to attach their names to get it for whatever reason.  Also some people might not claim for other reasons.  What happens to the unclaimed coin i wonder?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Having look at this for a day or so I can't seem to find any downsides to this. I believe this really facilitates the whole claim process for the average person. Many people will not be willing to put much effort into getting back their coins with chances all succeeding this slim. Anyone disagreeing?
I don't think so! We lost money in Mt Gox. Now we have the chance to get back why not go there to claim back except that only a small amount is lost in there! So they don't bother to claim the money back. 
hero member
Activity: 628
Merit: 500
Having look at this for a day or so I can't seem to find any downsides to this. I believe this really facilitates the whole claim process for the average person. Many people will not be willing to put much effort into getting back their coins with chances all succeeding this slim. Anyone disagreeing?
I agree.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night
Having look at this for a day or so I can't seem to find any downsides to this. I believe this really facilitates the whole claim process for the average person. Many people will not be willing to put much effort into getting back their coins with chances all succeeding this slim. Anyone disagreeing?
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Kraken is out to steal your credentials and bitcoins. My understanding is they're just passing the funds back and forth between themselves. If you put money into Mt. Gox, you're most likely never going to see it again. Don't think Kraken will reimburse you for it. They say so right in their disclaimer.

That really doesn't make any sense, they are officially selected to perform this process and their name is also mentioned the official documents about the bankruptcy of Mt. Gox. I don't see any way in which they could disappear with the coins our cash in the money without relaying to you afterwards.

That sounds a little naive.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
Kraken is out to steal your credentials and bitcoins. My understanding is they're just passing the funds back and forth between themselves. If you put money into Mt. Gox, you're most likely never going to see it again. Don't think Kraken will reimburse you for it. They say so right in their disclaimer.

That really doesn't make any sense, they are officially selected to perform this process and their name is also mentioned the official documents about the bankruptcy of Mt. Gox. I don't see any way in which they could disappear with the coins our cash in the money without relaying to you afterwards.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1003
Otherwise the deal sounds like this - Kraken kindly accepts 200,000BTC from Gox, then offers to reimburse less than 200,000BTC to the customers, essentially stealing some of the customers coins, then they want us to be happy that they have restored faith in Bitcoin... not sure about that one.

You should consider these facts as well:

1. Not all of the users might be alive now.
2. Among those users who are alive, not all of them will claim the lost coins.
3. Among the people who claim their loses, not everyone will be able to verify their accounts.

So by default, if Kraken promises to distribute the 200,000 BTC, they will be left with tens of thousands of coins.

They should set a deadline for claims, after that date they can see how many BTC are owed and divide the 200000 proportionally.
If only 200,000 are claimed, then all claims could be met in full, if less than 200k in claims are made, then they can make a nice profit out of it!

I don't understand how it would work with cash, but I said I would rather get a cash refund, at $470 a cash refund is much better than a bitcoin  refund at $230!
hero member
Activity: 628
Merit: 500
Maybe Kraken is trying to gain a large customer base. If all 100,000 creditors or even half setup accounts, that looks great for investors that may or may not know or care about how they got the new users.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 1217
Otherwise the deal sounds like this - Kraken kindly accepts 200,000BTC from Gox, then offers to reimburse less than 200,000BTC to the customers, essentially stealing some of the customers coins, then they want us to be happy that they have restored faith in Bitcoin... not sure about that one.

You should consider these facts as well:

1. Not all of the users might be alive now.
2. Among those users who are alive, not all of them will claim the lost coins.
3. Among the people who claim their loses, not everyone will be able to verify their accounts.

So by default, if Kraken promises to distribute the 200,000 BTC, they will be left with tens of thousands of coins.
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
So as of when can we make claims to get out bitcoin back?
It seems impossible that Kraken will be able to cover the full amount, as that would cost them 600,000BTC or $135million, but I would be pretty happy to get 25-50% back depending upon how much was recovered.

It still seems odd to me that 200k were found straight away, yet apparently nothing has been found since, but they still havent really showed where it went either.  This is exactly what the blockchain is for!

Dude you aren't getting 25-50% as the kraken CEO has already pointed out, but yeah no idea why we cant know the full details at this point.  Apparently the hope of finding the other coins is almost zero so giving information to public now isn't going to hurt any investigation.

How do they justify not giving us at least 25%?  They recovered 25% of the bitcoins, surely they need to be given back to the people who actually owned them...

Otherwise the deal sounds like this - Kraken kindly accepts 200,000BTC from Gox, then offers to reimburse less than 200,000BTC to the customers, essentially stealing some of the customers coins, then they want us to be happy that they have restored faith in Bitcoin... not sure about that one.

Dont know i always thought i would be getting around 25%.  Right now i would be worried i'd get something lame like 15%.  Much money has been wasted with all the time gone by, silly things like unnecessary mail drops cant help.  I figure they will be taking some % of the 200k? Sad
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