Also, I wouldn't mind giving up the next couple weeks worth of dividends but if we are talking about giving up the dividends when the 30ths comes on line, thats a little different.. Thats a lot of money for me since I hold a considerable amount of bonds. I certainly dont mind giving up the dividends now, to help things out, but Ive been holding my breath for the 30ths to come in and reap the benefits..
Maybe this should be clarified... If it makes sense, then I may be in agreement, but I would want to know all the particulars, etc.
Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 235. (Read 452224 times)
September 22, 2013, 08:05:08 PM
September 22, 2013, 06:52:10 PM
Wouldnt it be easier to just say the hard cost? instead of a percentage? Im sure you know what it costs you to power what you have and iim sure you know how much the rent is. So, just figure that out in hard cost. I think it would be easier to say, "1000 us for electricity and 500 for rent" (obviously, trivial numbers) thats a lot more transparent than using a percentage, but what do I know, lol. maybe its better to use a percentage, but you for sure need to pay your hard costs... plus, since you probably already know what your paying a kilowatt and monthly rent, it would be easier to figure out, plus you would make sure you got your hard costs covered rather than giving a percentage, where there is a chance that they wouldnt be..
September 22, 2013, 05:14:46 PM
I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
It would be more like 850BTC or 807.5 at 95% (scooping 5% for elec). I'd prefer to at least cover rent out of it too as that's what's intended in the 25% cut from divs. So let's say somewhere between 5 and 10% and I'll throw in my share.
As bittymitty stated it was the original plan, but I got hardware and wanted to show good faith and pay divs as early as possible.
Just to clarify - is this confirmation that you mean doing this with the new hardware as people are assuming?
Also, now that the info is essentially out there, to save having to run all the number backwards could you just say how many BitFury rigs this equates to please?!
September 22, 2013, 05:09:39 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
Don't worry, vouchers were used for everything, nobody pays face value for anything from BFL!
How come BCT doesn't have a like button
At least you can post "+1" here - the BFL forum doesn't allow posts under 5 chars!
Try it with spaces? " +1"
Even BFL aren't that sloppy! (also they didn't code their own forum, and everything is trimmed first)
September 22, 2013, 05:03:53 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
Don't worry, vouchers were used for everything, nobody pays face value for anything from BFL!
How come BCT doesn't have a like button
At least you can post "+1" here - the BFL forum doesn't allow posts under 5 chars!
Try it with spaces? " +1"
September 22, 2013, 05:03:27 PM
I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
It would be more like 850BTC or 807.5 at 95% (scooping 5% for elec). I'd prefer to at least cover rent out of it too as that's what's intended in the 25% cut from divs. So let's say somewhere between 5 and 10% and I'll throw in my share.
As bittymitty stated it was the original plan, but I got hardware and wanted to show good faith and pay divs as early as possible.
September 22, 2013, 05:02:05 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
Don't worry, vouchers were used for everything, nobody pays face value for anything from BFL!
How come BCT doesn't have a like button
At least you can post "+1" here - the BFL forum doesn't allow posts under 5 chars!
September 22, 2013, 04:57:38 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
Don't worry, vouchers were used for everything, nobody pays face value for anything from BFL!
How come BCT doesn't have a like button
September 22, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
It will be a lot more than 26k.
"This idea states that (and my contract allows for) LRM to mine for 2 full weeks with new hardware without paying dividends from it"
This means that all new hardware pays 2 weeks worth of BTC to buy more miners. If you compound this effect over time then you will have a lot more than if you just had one payment of 26k.
This was part of the plan from the start but was dropped to start paying early div's.
I vote yes for this plan.
"This idea states that (and my contract allows for) LRM to mine for 2 full weeks with new hardware without paying dividends from it"
This means that all new hardware pays 2 weeks worth of BTC to buy more miners. If you compound this effect over time then you will have a lot more than if you just had one payment of 26k.
This was part of the plan from the start but was dropped to start paying early div's.
I vote yes for this plan.
September 22, 2013, 04:06:05 PM
I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
Im with bar on this one, if the management fee was included to help the company, then im all for it.. like he said, would 26k really help in the short term? If it does, then by all means, go for it...
September 22, 2013, 03:49:39 PM
I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
Isn't Lab_Rat talking about using the upcoming hardware as a source of this two weeks worth of funding? If that's the case, then it would generate far more than $26,000. If it's only with current hardware, then that's not much, as you say Bargraphics.
I'm actually all for paying Lab the management fee because (1) it will be a hell of a lot of work for him to set this up, physically, and (2) yes, it will benefit him in the future, but most of the benefit is for bondholders - and he's trying to pull together the best deal possible for us. 5% seems insignificant in light of this, and the goodwill he is showing by not just doing it without asking... IMHO.
Are you able to clarify the point about which hardware is proposed for use Lab_Rat?
September 22, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
If you waive the management fee I would be happy with reinvestment, I don't know if I count as a big shareholder I have a little over 500 bonds. It seems to me that you would also benefit from increase in hashing power through a larger management fee in the following months and if we are going for a 'we are all in this together' mentality then it shows a lot of good faith on your part imo.
It puts you in the top 20, and with more than 1%, so you certainly have more of a voice than many! Should "larger" read "smaller" or have I misunderstood your point?
Basically I just want a bit more info on the specifics of the deal that this particular extra investment would gain LRM before I cast my vote, but in general it's probably a yes from me...
September 22, 2013, 03:29:39 PM
If you waive the management fee I would be happy with reinvestment, I don't know if I count as a big shareholder I have a little over 500 bonds. It seems to me that you would also benefit from increase in hashing power through a larger management fee in the following months and if we are going for a 'we are all in this together' mentality then it shows a lot of good faith on your part imo.
September 22, 2013, 03:02:46 PM
I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
September 22, 2013, 01:18:52 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
Don't worry, vouchers were used for everything, nobody pays face value for anything from BFL!
September 22, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Lab,
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
I hope that you got the 25 percent off voucher for the monarchs.. I dont know if you can use them retro, but I have one if you can... Im so glad all my orders are done with the BFL night mare...... I probably wouldnt purchase something from them even if the cost was 10 percent of the nearest competitor...but, maybe they will surprise us and deliver a timely and good product... like you said lab, I dont want to wait 3 months to get our hash rate up, but whatever is best for LRM, im in...
September 22, 2013, 12:47:59 PM
Maybe not this time... They learned a lot of hard lessons on the 65nm gear. Including not to be optimistic.
No, they didn't. The main lesson they seem to have learned is that you can repeatedly lie to/mislead people and they will continue to believe these lies, and that making promises that you can't deliver on is a great way to lock-in a customer base you have no right to if you were being honest, and that there is no penalty for doing so, so why not do it again as it worked so well last time. What have they got to lose?!
PS: Simple math states a theoretical efficiency of (28^2)/(65^2) = 784/4225 = 0.185 or ~1/5.4 the power consumption if they didn't optimize their power issues. So it could easily do 600GH @ 511W without breaking a sweat. If they optimized their power consumption it could get down to something closer to 350W without it being too far of a stretch.
But unfortunately it doesn't follow simple maths at all though. "Simple maths" tells me that if I put twice as many BHP in my car it goes twice as fast, but it doesn't. 511W on a chip of any size will more than "break a sweat", it will usually result in letting out the magic smoke. Also, thermal runaway is a big issue in these things when calculating the power draw dynamics in transistor circuits. The situation is not linear, and your argument is therefore overly simplistic and reductive. Serious modelling is required to get decent numbers out, and it can be both better or worse than the simple case you outline depending on many factors...
Either way, it's academic as we agree that BFL for the bin - CoinTerra for the win!
Their Monarch isn't a single chip... It's either 2 or 4. They came out with a "300 GH unit"
Yeah, with their current design spec (the one I'm saying they will miss) they are looking for a factor of 75x increase in speed AND the reduction in power draw. Should be easy right?
September 22, 2013, 12:40:11 PM
Thanks for the update Lab_Rat.
I completely agree with your plan. Go for it! (and I'm a fairly large shareholder).
A head start is all that matters at this point, and you seem to have a magic knack for making this happen.
I'm glad CoinTerra is finally allowing PP and CCs, as I had many emails with them over the topic, nagging for such to be put in place. Now that they have it, and you're in touch with them, I have a question, and it kinda goes out to all of the LRM bondholders:
Would it be possible for us to contribute to a cash fund with CT for you to buy equipment? For example: I use my CC to give CT $5000, it goes into a pooled fund under LRM rather than buying a miner directly, and we get a better deal than a direct purchase due to the volume.
This would allow an easy avenue for those wishing to buy on credit and have a simple transaction (great for those not living in the USA who'd otherwise need to pay ridiculous taxes).
On your end it would allow you to have a giant cash fund to work with in a very short time. Some custom arrangement would have to be worked out with CT, but perhaps it's worth considering.
Just an idea off the top of my head and probably not thought out too well...
Keep up the great work!
I completely agree with your plan. Go for it! (and I'm a fairly large shareholder).
A head start is all that matters at this point, and you seem to have a magic knack for making this happen.
I'm glad CoinTerra is finally allowing PP and CCs, as I had many emails with them over the topic, nagging for such to be put in place. Now that they have it, and you're in touch with them, I have a question, and it kinda goes out to all of the LRM bondholders:
Would it be possible for us to contribute to a cash fund with CT for you to buy equipment? For example: I use my CC to give CT $5000, it goes into a pooled fund under LRM rather than buying a miner directly, and we get a better deal than a direct purchase due to the volume.
This would allow an easy avenue for those wishing to buy on credit and have a simple transaction (great for those not living in the USA who'd otherwise need to pay ridiculous taxes).
On your end it would allow you to have a giant cash fund to work with in a very short time. Some custom arrangement would have to be worked out with CT, but perhaps it's worth considering.
Just an idea off the top of my head and probably not thought out too well...
Keep up the great work!
September 22, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
Maybe not this time... They learned a lot of hard lessons on the 65nm gear. Including not to be optimistic.
No, they didn't. The main lesson they seem to have learned is that you can repeatedly lie to/mislead people and they will continue to believe these lies, and that making promises that you can't deliver on is a great way to lock-in a customer base you have no right to if you were being honest, and that there is no penalty for doing so, so why not do it again as it worked so well last time. What have they got to lose?!
PS: Simple math states a theoretical efficiency of (28^2)/(65^2) = 784/4225 = 0.185 or ~1/5.4 the power consumption if they didn't optimize their power issues. So it could easily do 600GH @ 511W without breaking a sweat. If they optimized their power consumption it could get down to something closer to 350W without it being too far of a stretch.
But unfortunately it doesn't follow simple maths at all though. "Simple maths" tells me that if I put twice as many BHP in my car it goes twice as fast, but it doesn't. 511W on a chip of any size will more than "break a sweat", it will usually result in letting out the magic smoke. Also, thermal runaway is a big issue in these things when calculating the power draw dynamics in transistor circuits. The situation is not linear, and your argument is therefore overly simplistic and reductive. Serious modelling is required to get decent numbers out, and it can be both better or worse than the simple case you outline depending on many factors...
Either way, it's academic as we agree that BFL for the bin - CoinTerra for the win!
Their Monarch isn't a single chip... It's either 2 or 4. They came out with a "300 GH unit"
September 22, 2013, 12:34:03 PM
Maybe not this time... They learned a lot of hard lessons on the 65nm gear. Including not to be optimistic.
No, they didn't. The main lesson they seem to have learned is that you can repeatedly lie to/mislead people and they will continue to believe these lies, and that making promises that you can't deliver on is a great way to lock-in a customer base you have no right to if you were being honest, and that there is no penalty for doing so, so why not do it again as it worked so well last time. What have they got to lose?!
PS: Simple math states a theoretical efficiency of (28^2)/(65^2) = 784/4225 = 0.185 or ~1/5.4 the power consumption if they didn't optimize their power issues. So it could easily do 600GH @ 511W without breaking a sweat. If they optimized their power consumption it could get down to something closer to 350W without it being too far of a stretch.
But unfortunately it doesn't follow simple maths at all though. "Simple maths" tells me that if I put twice as many BHP in my car it goes twice as fast, but it doesn't. 511W on a chip of any size will more than "break a sweat", it will usually result in letting out the magic smoke. Also, thermal runaway is a big issue in these things when calculating the power draw dynamics in transistor circuits. The situation is not linear, and your argument is therefore overly simplistic and reductive. Serious modelling is required to get decent numbers out, and it can be both better or worse than the simple case you outline depending on many factors...
Either way, it's academic as we agree that BFL for the bin - CoinTerra for the win!
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