Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 236. (Read 452224 times)

CoinTerra is by far the best bet for 28nm... They have some goodies in store that I can't share that will blow away everyone.

EDIT: I'll pretty well answer anything you need to know about that proposition publicly except when Dave expects to get me HW by because that's technically speculation and I don't speculate or everyone gets mad... (seen that before)  Shoot me a call today if you want to know more mmmerlin

Maybe not this time... They learned a lot of hard lessons on the 65nm gear. Including not to be optimistic.

PS: Simple math states a theoretical efficiency of (28^2)/(65^2) = 784/4225 = 0.185 or ~1/5.4 the power consumption if they didn't optimize their power issues.  So it could easily do 600GH @ 511W without breaking a sweat. If they optimized their power consumption it could get down to something closer to 350W without it being too far of a stretch.

This is not how it works, and they haven't made the chip at all. There is no die-shrink possibility between 65nm and 28nm, this is a full redesign, with all the disasters that will entail. Yes, they've gained some experience, but there will be many hiccough along the way!

I'm not against this but it's a bit sparsely populated with details as it stands to get a vote of either yay or nay from me at the moment. Could you furnish this with a little more detail? Obviously PM/email is fine for the parts that can't/shouldn't be public (if any).


I am glad that CoinTerra get your vote, they would also get mine (pun intended). Also glad to hear you are not intending to allow more money to "flutter-by" BFL's mining contract offering is just another method to lock people's money away whilst they sit around missing specs and deadlines all over the place. I am really unsure as to how their business practices are legal... :/

Very glad to hear you are in touch with the CoinTerra people, that is a relationship worth maintaining.

Maybe 20% at this point, but I'd like to point out:


I may be willing to sell the order to another individual and not for the fact that I don't trust BFL to ship them. (It will happen eventually) and probably sooner than people are giving BFL credit for as they've already made the chip, just have to shrink it.  I just know that individuals with LRM want more hashpower NOW, not in 3-4 months.

Also BFL delivering both on (power) spec and in February is a dream 

I just want to remind everyone what bargraphics said a few posts up. I thought the same as most of you at first glance, why would I pay .15 for a bond when i can get 1ghs for .08?

The answer is pretty simple.

If you dont think about it, it looks like a good deal, but when you spend 10 seconds and look at the details its a no brainer... the bfl deal is TERRIBLE..you will lose value quickly, while lab rat will continue to grow.  So, in april, you are still hashing away at 1ghs, while we could be at 2ghs. Also, the bfl deal is for one year, then you have to pay "enter your inflated price here" for another year.

Thank you LabRat for the news !

I'm pretty agree with "The proposition"  

Every solution that can be good for the Company, i take.

I'm here for the long term  

PS: For others manufacturers, HashFast and KNCminer doesn' inspire trust for you ? (i'm a miner...if i can bet on the good horse...i take too   )

Dividend payout this week was just shy of 100 coins.  I'd like to see it go over 100 in the near future.

Just to point out.  LRM paid out ~0.002BTC per bond this week.  That comes out to be a 0.002/0.15 = 1.333% per week on an investment.  There isn't a single bank in the US that will give you that on a years interest, and LRM's payout will only keep climbing.

Hey everyone,

NEWS/INFORMATION
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My apologies for it being so long since the last update.  Yes, Dave is now mining for us.

With the news Dave gave me as to a time frame on receiving hardware, I realized I needed to hurry up on getting the second hosting location up and going.  I'm almost ready and by mid Oct it should have a virtual boatload of BitFury gear hashing away in it.

There were two minor hiccups in the last week.  One was a small networking issue that I fixed within 30 minutes, but the other was out of my control.  For the first time in the many months I've been mining in James' pool, it went down.  It wasn't that the pool went completely down, but James was doing upgrades/updates to the pool and it kept flashing off and back on at random when he restarted it.  This made it appear that the hashrate went down due to the moving average on the pool.  In a few occasions the pool went down for a split second too long and some miners switched to another pool.  It appears he is done with the updates/upgrades, but to be sure I split the hardware between BTCGuild (I didn't want to do that) and James' pool.

BTCGuild is far overpowered at almost 43% of the network and the 100TH mine is going up pointed at them which doesn't help.  I don't want to help throw them over the edge by pointing more TH at them, so this solution isn't permanent.

I have learned a lot about mining at scale in the last couple weeks and Dave (BitFury) and I have discussed our issues to make sure the other one doesn't run into the same issues.

PROPOSITION
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Dave has given me information that could gain LRM a far greater amount of hardware than originally intended as long as everything goes to plan.  There are a few individuals who hold a very large amount of LRM bonds who have all given me the same idea.  Although my contract gives no one voting rights, I'm not the type of individual to veto the masses vote. (This is me showing I'm not looking to screw over the public for a few bucks  )

This idea states that (and my contract allows for) LRM to mine for 2 full weeks with new hardware without paying dividends from it.  What I would do if the public will generally agree to this is use this hardware to mine and scoop up a large sum of BTC.  ~5% would be necessary for power consumption and ~5% would be requested as a management fee for setting up hundreds and hundreds of h-cards and getting everything mining in a very speedy manner.  The other 90% would go straight into the hardware that Dave can give me a killer deal on.

If you would consider this, it could mean wonders for the company in the long run getting a better head-start.

NEWS REGARDING OTHER MANUFACTURERS
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CoinTerra -- VP of sales with CoinTerra and I have been in contact and will remain in contact.  We will be trying to work out a deal to maybe get some Dec and Jan equipment.  Things looked good when I spoke to him.

If people want my opinion on which 28nm company will deliver on time (or even at all) it will likely be CoinTerra, which is why I'm interested in remaining in contact with them.

BFL -- Their recent announcement to host by the GH is exactly the opposite of my beliefs when it comes to PMBs.  If you purchase a defined hashrate, your payout will only continue to go down.  My intention is to keep up with the difficulty (to an extent) until it begins to level off.



I hope everyone can understand how much time and effort it takes to put together an operation of this size and can forgive me for not being as public as I used to be.

-Lab_Rat

I would be happy with a bi-weekly news update on bitfunder - only people with lab rat shares read this thread for the most part.

Yes, I second this. This asset needs weekly reporting, urgently.

We need Weekly report...

LabRat, we know you are busy, but we ( i ) need more update.
For the moment i can't decide myself if i go for more bonds or panic sell...

I haven't any vision for the moment....except this range of 400-700MH/s per bonds...but when ?
We are still stuck at 58 mh/s per bonds...

Any hardware out there is still more competitive than LRM bonds...

If BFL deliver ( big IF ) their "Mining by GH/s in January/february 2014 at 1GH/[email protected]$ (0.08BTC@1GH/s), LRM bonds need (must) exceed the 1GH/s per bonds or we all going to see a big crash price.

It's pretty simple...why i'm going to buy a Bond at 0.16BTC or more in January 2014 when competitors can (i know...science-fiction...but BFL can surprise us...) deliver 1GH/[email protected]BTC ?

I know it's maybe all wrong....but without news...is where i am  

My point was purely mathematical, and whilst your calculations don't go quite that far, they go very close, which means they are prone to the same invalidities.

Clearly you do understand the bigger picture in terms of equilibration, and as you say, many companies are shipping now and more are coming online soon. All I'm saying is that those calculations involve integrating under a very steep curve, and one for which the time constant is neither known, nor constant.

I'm not saying it's better, I'm not saying it's worse, all I'm saying is that the error bars on these calculations, especially those 3+ months down line, are enormous.

I agree that we can't have difficulty go up forever. There is a difficulty wall out there based on current technology where you can't pass without hitting zero profitability. So, yes, that is a easily debated assumption. And very few people would tend towards mining at all in that case. An equilibrium would be established that was likely marginally profitable compared to the electric costs.

But seeing BFL is still shipping, ASIC miner is still shipping (dropping prices), BitFury is now shipping, and others with more powerful equipment are soon going to start shipping, with more manufacturers coming online each month it seems, it seems to me that difficulty will follow suit until near that point. As hardware is going to simply keep coming online, granted, not exponentially, but if they want to sell more hardware, they will have to lower prices. And what happens then? More people buy the hardware.

Regarding:

That misses the point. My calculations didn't go into the negative profitability on those charts. I don't think it will become less than zero. Few people would mine at break even with their electrical bills. I called this area of the curve non-profitable because I said it was negligible compared to the original investment. If you bought asic hardware at that time, you could still break even, because manufacturers at that time will sell the hardware at ridiculously low prices compared to what you see now, either that or they won't sell them at all. That would likely even be the case even if there was no 28nm competition.

I don't think your numbers are exact, but you seem to be correct to suspect that there is a problem related to that. By the way, 'bankrupt' might not be the right term to use. LR isn't in debt, and won't need to pay anyone if LRM becomes unprofitable. He doesn't guarantee bond holders any return on investment. He only provided a minimal hash power guarantee (100MH/bond).

Theoretically, using the right column which shows an aggregate of profit, that chart means one Bitfury rig will generate about $13,100 if you had it mining from beginning of October until it was low profit. But best case is middle of October, which means you subtract half of October profits ($4780/2=$2390) which comes out to $13,100 - $2,390 = $10,700. Minus 25% = $8032.50

That sounds good as it stands, since the Bitfury October hardware is on sale at $8000 per rig. So, you are looking at breaking even! But left with unprofitable bonds. Should never bought if that ends up as the case. Simply holding bitcoins would have been less headache.

But the situation is worse because you have to distribute that to 50,000 bonds. And not all proceeds from bonds went towards buying hardware. If it did, then 50,000 bonds times the minimal of BTC0.15 is BTC7500. With BTC at $120 to $140, that is from $900,000 to $1,050,000. Don't you think you should be able to buy FAR more than 30TH with that? Even if you subtract out electrical and space costs, you should still have left a LOT of the people's money that was invested. Say you are left with $800,000. You could buy 100 Bitfury rigs, resulting in 40TH. But as figured above in my prior comment, you would need much more than that to break even by end of May. Assume you could get a 30% discount on hardware, you could buy 142 rigs resulting in 56.8TH.

In a nutshell, it seems to me, Labrat will have to buy over 52TH of hardware just for the lowest priced bonds to break even by May. The only other hope is difficulty slowing down a lot (or bitcoins skyrocketing in value). And difficulty does slow sometimes, but it historically always ends up higher and higher. So, buying the bonds ends up, unwittingly or otherwise, as a bet that difficulty will slow down when you need it to slow down.

If you follow the return for this:http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9dbdb5cf20 labrat mining will be bankrupt by May 2014.

May monthly profit for 1 Bitfury rig is $256 * .25 management fee = $64 to pay for power and hosting and management fee(power alone is $40).