I would like to clear up a lot in this post right now... The market cap is not 15 Million... Check your 0's, it's only 1.5M.
The next thing to clear up is my guaranteed minimum hashrate is once all hardware is received, so in the event I were to get 250GH in the next 10 days as I see happening, it will not work out to 100MH/s per bond although the hardware has been ordered and is being ordered. I'm sure everyone would rather me pay out the ~25 BTC/wk that 250GH/s would pull in than wait until I can pay out 100MH/s per bond am I correct?
Another thing is that I have provided a calculator of how I am spending money for company. This shows a likely range of 300-400MH/s per bond after all hardware on order or being ordered has been delivered. This will start much lower and ramp up over the weeks ahead, but you should expect something close to that range by the time all hardware for current bond purchases are in hand.
Additionally I plan on keeping up with network growth which will allow my bonds to maintain value if not increase over time.
Finally, as mmmerlin stated, I am not claiming dividends for the unsold bonds. I am still only claiming 25% of all dividends paid out to reinvest in additional hardware for the company and cover costs associated with running this hardware.
I sincerely hope this clears up everything that is being discussed.
Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 264. (Read 452170 times)
July 25, 2013, 05:09:05 PM
July 25, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
aren't the non-public shares already issued to the owners? with companies going public there are no longer "private shares". so for example all the shares that Mark Zuckerberg had are considered public now even though they were private before. when a company goes public all shares are converted to "public shares". you can't have a public/private hybrid. so all the shares that labrat has issued to itself are all actual shares (in the real world). it just hasn't sold those shares to anyone, yet.
another example is AsicMiner where bitfunder's ownership is taken into account when considering market cap
Yeah, it is clear now that the misunderstanding is in the use of the term "shares". They really do function more like bonds/mining contracts, so this line of reasoning does not hold as Lab_Rat will not receive dividends from the bonds that are unsold.
July 25, 2013, 04:05:16 PM
do you guys know what market cap MEANS? market cap is based on all shares issued (even to owners) that might not be "tradeable" yet. it's not only the shares that are released to public. if you guys don't understand what market cap is or what it implies than be ready to lose your money or btc.
The misunderstanding here arises from the fact that these are not "shares" in the traditional sense; the shares which Lab_Rat holds on the exchange that are not sold will not be paying dividends, therefore for market cap it is only fair to evaluate on the shares that have actually been sold. Furthermore, if all the "shares" that are yet to be sold are sold, then my understanding is that more will simply be created in order to let the company expand. This does not dilute other investor's holdings as it would with a normal share because these function more like bonds.
as far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
I don't know that this is necessarily true. He has managed to negotiate some BFL preorders, and some BFL units that are in hand, for reasonable prices, and due to his purchasing power is in the process of securing a deal with BitFury that wouldn't be available to the general public (I believe, though I stand to be corrected on this). Perhaps you have enormous purchasing power, I don't know who you are, but 99% of people, even ones who can afford expensive units, cannot purchase hardware in the way LRM can.
July 25, 2013, 03:54:10 PM
do you guys know what market cap MEANS? market cap is based on all shares issued (even to owners) that might not be "tradeable" yet. it's not only the shares that are released to public. if you guys don't understand what market cap is or what it implies than be ready to lose your money or btc.
As far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
As far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
I think our dezentralized lexicon does not share this definition:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marktkapitalisierung
The english article needs revising as the first sentence is first implying what your definition of market cap was. However within that first scentance it disagrees already. First it states price times total shares issued. Then it states price times shares outstanding (not held by company itself).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization
aren't the non-public shares already issued to the owners? with companies going public there are no longer "private shares". so for example all the shares that Mark Zuckerberg had are considered public now even though they were private before. when a company goes public all shares are converted to "public shares". you can't have a public/private hybrid. so all the shares that labrat has issued to itself are all actual shares (in the real world). it just hasn't sold those shares to anyone, yet.
another example is AsicMiner where bitfunder's ownership is taken into account when considering market cap
July 25, 2013, 03:41:12 PM
do you guys know what market cap MEANS? market cap is based on all shares issued (even to owners) that might not be "tradeable" yet. it's not only the shares that are released to public. if you guys don't understand what market cap is or what it implies than be ready to lose your money or btc.
As far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
As far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
I think our dezentralized lexicon does not share this definition:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marktkapitalisierung
The english article needs revising as the first sentence is first implying what your definition of market cap was. However within that first scentance it disagrees already. First it states price times total shares issued. Then it states price times shares outstanding (not held by company itself).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization
July 25, 2013, 03:23:46 PM
do you guys know what market cap MEANS? market cap is based on all shares issued (even to owners) that might not be "tradeable" yet. it's not only the shares that are released to public. if you guys don't understand what market cap is or what it implies than be ready to lose your money or btc.
as far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
as far as hardware goes. personally i can purchase any hardware that labrat can purchase. i understand this may be different for others. however, they may consider a groupbuy as an option too. pointing out that the current market cap is 15 million is very relevant for people who understand what that means.
July 25, 2013, 02:34:06 PM
the market cap for this operation is around 15 million!!! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT i mean hope investors don't lose money but that is quite a valuation. it's also interesting that everyone is looking to have someone else mine on their behalf instead of getting the equipment themselves
Market cap is arbitrary. The vast majority of the available shares will never be sold. Currently there's, what, 21k shares sold? That's $300k. Don't forget that, as with all fixed-hashrate shares/bonds (take gigamining as an example. A 5Mhps gigamining share is essentially worthless today), their value naturally decreases as difficulty rises. Early adopters end up paying the most (0.15 or 0.16 BTC), but also get more total income because they start mining sooner. Latecomers obviously have a lower income expectation so they will not be willing to pay as much for a share; shares simply won't be worth 0.15 for long. Share price will start to go down, and continue to go down, at some point.
@superduh: The market cap is actually only the shares which are sold by Lab_Rat. So currently around 21000 x 0.16 BTC
Don't forget that these shares are x gh and no power or hosting fee deducted. So theoretically if Lab_Rat pulls it off the right way, the shares should be worth at least something even in years to come.
@ Lab_Rat: You mentioned somewhere that you think you can hold it with no power or hosting fee deducted down to about 30USD/BTC. Obviously that is just an assuption as for now. What I propose (in case you have not considered) is to build a considerable fund in USD to cover these costs in case BTC takes a huge dive. Let's assume BTC goes down to 1 USD. I think in that case the hashrate will drop drastically. So after the difficulty change it would be superb to mine away at full steam. If the price recovers the mined bitcoins are worth a lot.
OK i know it's just one of many possible szenarios and no-one knows what will happen when in the BTC world. However, I think the proposal above would give incentive to buy shares because we know that our shares would keep mining as long as somehow possible.
Hope I made myself clear
Simon
July 25, 2013, 02:15:02 PM
the market cap for this operation is around 15 million!!! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT i mean hope investors don't lose money but that is quite a valuation. it's also interesting that everyone is looking to have someone else mine on their behalf instead of getting the equipment themselves
Have you tried getting hardware? I almost got scammed out of $3k trying to buy a pre-order. You simply cannot get hardware within a profitable time frame without pooled capital. (unless you have the $$ to get a KNC Saturn/Jupiter on your own).
July 25, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
the market cap for this operation is around 15 million!!! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT i mean hope investors don't lose money but that is quite a valuation. it's also interesting that everyone is looking to have someone else mine on their behalf instead of getting the equipment themselves
Market cap is arbitrary. The vast majority of the available shares will never be sold. Currently there's, what, 21k shares sold? That's $300k. Don't forget that, as with all fixed-hashrate shares/bonds (take gigamining as an example. A 5Mhps gigamining share is essentially worthless today), their value naturally decreases as difficulty rises. Early adopters end up paying the most (0.15 or 0.16 BTC), but also get more total income because they start mining sooner. Latecomers obviously have a lower income expectation so they will not be willing to pay as much for a share; shares simply won't be worth 0.15 for long. Share price will start to go down, and continue to go down, at some point.
July 25, 2013, 01:17:33 PM
the market cap for this operation is around 15 million!!! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT i mean hope investors don't lose money but that is quite a valuation. it's also interesting that everyone is looking to have someone else mine on their behalf instead of getting the equipment themselves
July 25, 2013, 01:02:33 PM
Lab_Rat would it be fair to classify LRM shares as "Shares in LRM with a guaranteed minimum hash rate of 100mh per share"? - basically guaranteeing a minimum hash rate, but if LRM as a mining company grows, the all investors reap the rewards? I'm already in for 200+ shares btw, I sold my BFL pre-orders to invest with you instead.
July 24, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
How many, and what kinds of orders, have been placed so far? The initial contract still only mentions Butterfly Labs. Have BFL orders been placed already (& how many)? I've read that LRDP has made some kind of arrangement with Bitfury. Can we get some clarity on that?
The contract on BitFunder has been updated to cover everything discussed in this thread that should have been added from the start, but it does mention BitFury...
I have 240GH that should be on it's way to me this week or next, the source doesn't matter, but it's already in hand. Following that will likely be 2.3-2.8 TH in June/July 2012 BFL orders and August shipdate BitFury orders. 4-8 weeks later will likely be 9+TH split between BFL and BitFury.
There are a few other individuals I have been in contact with to secure early orders or orders already in hand, but I have a deal I'm working out with Dave at the moment that is huge. I would like to share it, but the details are still being ironed out...
Just trying to paint a picture that there are 4 or 5 different paths being taken to get hardware as soon as possible and LabRatMining has the power to get them done.
July 24, 2013, 05:52:06 PM
How many, and what kinds of orders, have been placed so far? The initial contract still only mentions Butterfly Labs. Have BFL orders been placed already (& how many)? I've read that LRDP has made some kind of arrangement with Bitfury. Can we get some clarity on that?
Lab_Rat and buzzdave have confirmed hardware availability early in the October queue. I will be surprised if more detail than that is released.There is some work being done to finalize more immediate hardware. Once details have been finalized (within the next day or so) they will be announced.
grnbrg.
July 23, 2013, 08:20:54 PM
i have bougt your bones,hope you can do a good job!!
July 23, 2013, 04:24:09 PM
Thank you for that reply Lab Rat.
July 23, 2013, 02:56:40 PM
As previously announced, I have been working on a series of spreadsheets that will allow investors to view all information pertaining to LabRatMining and how the Bitcoin network and exchange rates affect the company.
This spreadsheet was developed to add some clarity to the previously vague "Minimum of 100MH/s per bond."
I have taken into account all variables involved except reinvestment by the company as this quantity will vary over time. There are fixed costs involved in hosting the equipment as well as variable costs that will determine the amount that will be reinvested.
Below is some data that has been calculated given a scenario based around the following assumptions:
-BTC/USD = $90.00
-Expected Difficulty at the time of hardware deployment = 45,000,000
-The period of time you wish to measure in weeks = 26
-The percent increase in difficulty per adjustment = 14
[...]
This spreadsheet was made using Excel. You may download the spreadsheet to allow for input of your own assumptions. The fact that these were produced using Excel may cause some individuals to not have access to using the full potential of this calculator, but Google Docs has a built in spreadsheet viewer that will give you the full information based on the assumptions above.
Here is the link to access the complete spreadsheet and README: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwZCh0jtSZkwR1A4RS04TkNUcVU&usp=sharing
Because you have stetted a price gap ,there are little hope you will sold your bonds above 0.15...This spreadsheet was developed to add some clarity to the previously vague "Minimum of 100MH/s per bond."
I have taken into account all variables involved except reinvestment by the company as this quantity will vary over time. There are fixed costs involved in hosting the equipment as well as variable costs that will determine the amount that will be reinvested.
Below is some data that has been calculated given a scenario based around the following assumptions:
-BTC/USD = $90.00
-Expected Difficulty at the time of hardware deployment = 45,000,000
-The period of time you wish to measure in weeks = 26
-The percent increase in difficulty per adjustment = 14
[...]
This spreadsheet was made using Excel. You may download the spreadsheet to allow for input of your own assumptions. The fact that these were produced using Excel may cause some individuals to not have access to using the full potential of this calculator, but Google Docs has a built in spreadsheet viewer that will give you the full information based on the assumptions above.
Here is the link to access the complete spreadsheet and README: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwZCh0jtSZkwR1A4RS04TkNUcVU&usp=sharing
anyway, the calculation above isn't the same , for example : you said 16500 sold would be 6.9 TH in total. which should be equivalent to 418M/M h per bond.
but you stated that individual bond has 318.86/Mhash. and the term of 100M/hash rate bond which originally you stated in the contract now become 300M/hash rate.(Is that you manage your contract by just typing it like whatever you like to?)
So you believe that 100% of all profits made by LRM should be equally distributed amongst the bond holders? Lab Rat isn't running a charity, it is a business. Not to mention all of the other overhead costs and his time investment associated with hosting a large scale mining farm.
If you read a couple posts up from yours you'll notice I updated my contract.
As per the SEC issue. I discussed this with my lawyer over a month ago and I believe that due to these securities being offered to a limited amount of people and/or institutions, as well as being limited in size, they do not have to comply with the SEC unless they are falsely representing their business.
Quote
Not all offerings of securities must be registered with the Commission. Some exemptions from the registration requirement include:
private offerings to a limited number of persons or institutions;
offerings of limited size;
intrastate offerings; and
securities of municipal, state, and federal governments.
By exempting many small offerings from the registration process, the SEC seeks to foster capital formation by lowering the cost of offering securities to the public.
private offerings to a limited number of persons or institutions;
offerings of limited size;
intrastate offerings; and
securities of municipal, state, and federal governments.
By exempting many small offerings from the registration process, the SEC seeks to foster capital formation by lowering the cost of offering securities to the public.
Found here: http://www.sec.gov/about/laws.shtml
July 23, 2013, 01:52:37 PM
Hello,
A known Scammer Pirate has been Charged by the SEC https://www.sec.gov/servlet/Satellite/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.Ue7Bc_myCq2
In that thread they are talking about SEC Compliance
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2788773
I'm not very familiar with any of this and my question is what does LRM's Lawyer make of the above.
We're in uncharted territories with these unregulated exchanges and offerings.
Thank you.
A known Scammer Pirate has been Charged by the SEC https://www.sec.gov/servlet/Satellite/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.Ue7Bc_myCq2
In that thread they are talking about SEC Compliance
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2788773
I'm not very familiar with any of this and my question is what does LRM's Lawyer make of the above.
We're in uncharted territories with these unregulated exchanges and offerings.
Thank you.
First off, awesome.
Second:
Quote
Shavers posted general solicitations on a website dedicated to Bitcoin discussions, and he misled investors with such false assurances about his investment opportunity as “It’s growing, it’s growing!” and “I have yet to come close to taking a loss on any deal,” and “risk is almost 0.” Contrary to the representations made to investors, BTCST was not in the business of buying and selling Bitcoin at all.
and from reading the actually complainthttp://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2013/comp-pr2013-132.pdf
it looks like he got nailed for misrepresenting his business and running a scam, not for trading unregistered securities.
but then there is this:
Quote
THIRD CLAIM FOR RELIEF
Violations of Section 5(a) a
nd 5(c) of the Securities Act
41.
The Commission re-alleges and inco
rporates paragraphs 1 through 34 by
reference as if fully set forth herein.
SEC v. Trendon T. Shavers, et al
8
COMPLAINT
42.
Defendants, directly or indirectly, singly
or in concert, have made use of the
means or instruments of transportation or commun
ication in interstate commerce, or the mails, to
offer and sell securities when no re
gistration statements was filed or in
effect as to such securities
and when no exemption from registration was applicable.
43.
By reason of the foregoing, Defendants have violated and, unless enjoined, will
again violate Sections 5(a) and 5(c) of the Secu
rities Act [15 U.S.C. §§ 77
e(a) and 77e(c).]
Violations of Section 5(a) a
nd 5(c) of the Securities Act
41.
The Commission re-alleges and inco
rporates paragraphs 1 through 34 by
reference as if fully set forth herein.
SEC v. Trendon T. Shavers, et al
8
COMPLAINT
42.
Defendants, directly or indirectly, singly
or in concert, have made use of the
means or instruments of transportation or commun
ication in interstate commerce, or the mails, to
offer and sell securities when no re
gistration statements was filed or in
effect as to such securities
and when no exemption from registration was applicable.
43.
By reason of the foregoing, Defendants have violated and, unless enjoined, will
again violate Sections 5(a) and 5(c) of the Secu
rities Act [15 U.S.C. §§ 77
e(a) and 77e(c).]
curious what labrat's lawyer has to say though
July 23, 2013, 12:54:30 PM
Hello,
A known Scammer Pirate has been Charged by the SEC https://www.sec.gov/servlet/Satellite/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.Ue7Bc_myCq2
In that thread they are talking about SEC Compliance
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2788773
I'm not very familiar with any of this and my question is what does LRM's Lawyer make of the above.
We're in uncharted territories with these unregulated exchanges and offerings.
Thank you.
A known Scammer Pirate has been Charged by the SEC https://www.sec.gov/servlet/Satellite/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.Ue7Bc_myCq2
In that thread they are talking about SEC Compliance
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2788773
I'm not very familiar with any of this and my question is what does LRM's Lawyer make of the above.
We're in uncharted territories with these unregulated exchanges and offerings.
Thank you.
July 23, 2013, 08:51:42 AM
Bought about 12 Gh/s of estimated hashing power , Shares @ 0.15 got eaten up pretty fast 
July 23, 2013, 06:23:10 AM
95 shares left at 0.15 - After this I guess we'll be seeing 0.16 pretty quickly.
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