Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 267. (Read 452170 times)

Lab Rat, I'm a little confused.

If I buy one of the 100,000 bonds, that will grant me 100Mh/s. If only 20,000 bonds are sold before the first pay period, would I get 500mh/s worth of pay since the 80,000 wasn't sold?

The 20% in start-up expenses include but are not limited to, warehouse rent and renovation (I've begun this already with my own personal funds), lawyer and accounting fees, management fees, and leaving a minimum surplus for unknown or unrecognized expenses as the company moves along.

Pertaining to your questions regarding management fees, I have put between 250 and 300 hours into this company over the last couple weeks, as well as many hours before that.  I will of course be compensating myself for those hours spent.

I would like to share initial estimations of the allocation of funds.  I will be updating the website in the next 24 to 48 hours with this information so that all potential or current investors may analyze the data.

Good question.  I just got a note from Lab_Rat that he's working on a statement on this.  It should be posted later today.



grnbrg.

I think that will help a lot. Many people's objections are to the vague definition of what a share is and where it will go in the future. I understand many people prefer to see simply "100 MH/s", but I think the more sophisticated investors would have preferred:

"One share guarantees you the payout of (1/number_of_shares sold)*75 percent of the payout of the total of LabRatMining's operation. The remaining 25% is spent on expenses and hardware. We will post monthly statements on the expenses and balance available for hardware purchases. Hardware purchases will be made at the discretion of the company. The company will take XX% of the 25% each month as a management fee.

The total LRM hashrate will be determined by the amount of funds raised in this bond sale, with 80% of the funds going to hardware purchasing and 20% of the funds towards startup legal and datacenter expenses.

For example (and only as an example), at the current exchange rate of ~90 USD/BTC, and the current rate of 500 GH/s for $22,484.00-25% discount ($16863), and share rate of BTC15*0.8, we expect to purchase 320 MH/s/share. Of that 320 MH/s/share, 25% (80 MH/s) will go towards mining expenses and expanded hardware per above, and 240MH/s will be returned as dividends."


While a clean clear share definition (ASICMINER) is simpler, this model can work if there is enough transparency.  However, as as a defined security, lots of information is missing that serious investors need. As you can see, amongst the missing information is management fee is and if you havereasonable recurring expenses.

I'm just trying to help point out how this can be improved, and hopefully become a successful BTC venture.

EDIT: 20% for start up expenses? 20,000 shares sold is $270,000. 20% is $54,000 - that seems quite high for one month work of work (even for a lawyer), especially since the company owns the hardware assets. Unless some management fee is included in that, but you haven't shown what you get out of it yet - which is important for you to be sustainable.

It's funny, you're basically trolling him for being conservative initially... bad Lab_Rat! You must make massive proclamations of unachievable success!

Frankly with Lab_Rat's connections and respect in the community I'm pretty bloody confident he can get hash rate on the ground before the rest of us... like his relationship with BFL - anyone thought that one through? oh yeah, 15641 shares worth of people may have thought that one through.

+1 vote of confidence for labrat. I've said elsewhere, I sold my pre-orders to buy shares instead (I can't afford the heat and leccy of these BFL units which aren't hitting initial spec)

I read this post and honest to god thought it was one of those smartass parody/troll posts people make until I saw the username.

I'm actually happy to see this arrangement. grnbrg has provided very good answers in a professional format. Obviously it is labrat's responsibility to correct his agent or release more important information such as financial updates and large hardware purchases. However, I would like to see this across the board on all listed assets. Often these managers are so stressed and don't want to field so many questions or criticism. So why not find an agent to pay them a small amount of revenue who isn't stressed out running a business to take these investor relations tasks off the manager.

This was in my business plan, but I did not make it public.  I am working on some documents and spreadsheets, as suggested, that I will be publishing.  I have no problem including these in the contract as they are/were my plans from the beginning.  I wanted to promise a minimum and shoot for higher.

I wish this was in the contract, hard numbers helps price securities.

OgNasty does something similar to what labrat is proposing, but is nearly 100% transparent and is currently yielding dividends. That model is working, the key is transparency towards hardware reinvestment rates and purchasing.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nastyfans-the-bitcoin-enthusiast-fan-club-est-2012-86854

I know MrTeal quite well and like his project. The only thing that separates him from BitFury is that BitFury's chips are more power efficient. If he gets his chips in and gear assembled before BitFury starts delivering it may be worth it though.

Look into MrTeal's project. If he pulls it off, he will have an as competitive as BitFury offer going on. You'd do better to order the chips though...if you can get the discounts.

I'd like to add that since every second counts in this mining race, I doubt there's any possibility of me being able to secure new hardware faster than someone like Lab Rat, who can now make giant orders, and probably get a jump on the order date, plus get discounts for buying a large volume.
So, he can most likely get it faster and cheaper, which are both very important factors that should be included in the calculations (but we'll have to wait and see for some data).

Except for the whole part where Trendon Shavers is Pirateat40 and all of his information plastered everywhere.

Still aside from that Perpetual mining things (not quite bond, not quite shares) don't seem to ever have that sort of ROI even when they are honest.

I think my point is - you are just a troll... there are too many whingey little whiney paranoid bitches involved in bitcoin. As far as I'm concerned Lab_Rat is pretty well respected in the industry/community - sure he might do a pirate on us all (except we know his real name, and where he lives), but these are the risks we accept when we invest in something like this. Not understanding the risk is stupidy, not having the intelligence to intelligently take the risk.

Someone would have to be fkn stupid to attempt to defraud a community of paranoid libertarians, druggies and drug dealers...

So my risk reward analysis goes something like this..... 50:50 chance this thing could turn into nothing - if it turns into something my return will be about 20x (based on history) - am I prepared to assume a 50% risk for a 2000% ROI? Hells yeah... even if you mince those numbers around, the odds are still looking pretty good.

No, this offering is NOT high risk and high reward "just like Bitcoin". This is high risk and high reward just like an internet scam. Bitcoin is high risk and high reward on an entirely different level and in an entirely different way. The inability to make that difference marks you as one of those to stfu and lurk moar.

Admitting for a second you're not being willfully stupid, ie a sock shilling this nonsense (which is rather the more likely explanation), the above confusion is exactly what stupid people do and scammers encourage them to do: mix up very unlike things.


It's good to know that's the function of that scam's forums: brewing the next generation of you people.

Difference is with ASICMINER you owned shares - and were entitled to growth in hardware.

Here it's neither a bond nor a share - and the contract gives you no rights to anything other than the 100 MH/s.  If he wanted to take a defined percentage of profit then he could have written the contract to do that.  He didn't - so obviously he doesn't want a fixed percentage of profit.  Relying on anything the contract doesn't grant you is just terrible practice.  When someone writes a contract giving very little assume that's all you get.  If you wanted to rely on charity then we could skip the whole securities thing, just send him BTC direct and get back whatever he felt like giving.

I do not understand why everyone is fixated on the initial 100 Mh/s estimate. It is an estimate of the initial hashrate per share and will grow just as Asicminer's does/has albeit probably not at the same rate. When I first looked into Asicminer everyone was screaming about how only an idiot would buy into something that gets you around 56 Mh/s per share (if my memory serves me correctly). I'm sure glad I was one of those idiots.

I'm confident as soon as the first dividend hits, the remaining shares will be eaten up.

Thank you for taking all factors into consideration as I have done the same. I would like to correct you on one point though. Its not 60% of coins mined that goes to the customers. Its 100% of coins mined with hardware purchased using 60% of bond funds. Some of the company's mining dividends will go toward raising the total Hashrate though so some of the money reserved is still working for investors.  You mentioned that the numbers become much more appealing with the use of BitFury's numbers. Although BitFury's numbers are nice I dont believe anyone should put their trust in a single manufacturer at this point. So please consider a combination of BitFury and Butterfly Labs at this time. On top of my contact with BitFury I have also begun securing June and July 2012 MR orders and some August ship date BitFury equipment from individuals in the community I trust. I appear to have 3-5 TH lined up as of this moment that will likely be delivered soon to those original purchasers. I will be going out to pick up this equipment and purchase it in person.

I understand that the sooner dividends are paid the better for everyone and I'm taking that very seriously.

The way I look at these numbers, what this should equate to is that dividends would then end up reflecting about 60% efficiency of a situation where a person bought and managed his/her own hardware.
That is, bonds are bought with funds of quantity X.
20% * X = initial expenses.
80% * X = initial hardware purchases.
75% x initial hardware = bond holders dividends.

80% x 75% = 60%

Therefore, 60% of ALL coins mined by Lab-Rat-Mining are straight dividends.

Using BFL minirigs as a baseline: One BFL SC minirig is 500GH for $23,000 (or 500,000MH for $23,000).
That equates to 21.7MH/$.
60% of this hash power/cost efficiency would be:
60% * 21.7 MH/$ = ~13.0MH/$

Initial lowest priced purchases of bonds are approximate as 100MH/$15 or ~6.7MH/$

If hardware was in hand, the numbers given of 100MH/bond then are very conservative. Straight numbers indicate bonds should perform at 200MH/bond (where the bonds are initially bought at least price of BTC.15). BitFury prices would be even better.

This of course does not take into account what the difficulty will be when hardware is actually placed online. This is why it is important to secure good deals and delivery times. It seems to me that Lab Rat's priority should be to do everything he can to acquire hardware cheaper and faster. And dividend numbers is what will really drive the purchase of future bonds.