I have my own personal documents, let me work on something I can release to the public in the coming days. I will not be including BTC/USD speculation as that is impossible to speculate on from hour to hour. I will however include many scenarios of difficulty, as well as different quantities of bonds sold.
The website is a work in progress and will have more readily available forms of delivering information as time goes on.
Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 268. (Read 452170 times)
July 18, 2013, 12:12:12 PM
July 18, 2013, 12:09:42 PM
@BitSugar: Point taken. I do need to work on my delivery.
I expect to do largely what I have done with BFL: Consolidate official information on the LRM_News twitter feed, and answer questions where I can find them about the mining company. I don't yet have all the answers on hand, but that will change.
I don't yet have much history on this forum, but I've built a very good reputation on BFL's forum of honesty and accuracy. I intend to continue in that vein.
grnbrg.
I expect to do largely what I have done with BFL: Consolidate official information on the LRM_News twitter feed, and answer questions where I can find them about the mining company. I don't yet have all the answers on hand, but that will change.
I don't yet have much history on this forum, but I've built a very good reputation on BFL's forum of honesty and accuracy. I intend to continue in that vein.
grnbrg.
Thanks grnbrg,
You should add an interactive FAQ section on http://labratmining.com/. Similar to Stack Overflow. Then all questions are in one place & the stockholders can vote up the most important ones. This would definitely remove a lot of potential hassle.
July 18, 2013, 12:02:35 PM
I think I can answer some stuff promptly, and Lab_Rat will confirm (or overrule) when he gets time.
grnbrg.
There you go again with your confidence building statements....
So you are establishing NOW that we cannot trust what you post about Lab_Rat as a hired spokesman of Lab_Rat (via disclaimer about confirming or overruling), yet we should make investment choices based upon the "facts" that you present, meanwhile the official "fact" confirmation by Lab_Rat may or may not take place on a fact-by-fact basis. In other words we cannot trust anything you say unless if each statement is confirmed by Lab_Rat, yet you are the only one making statements.
grnbrg, what is your purpose again?
- To act as the mainstream media to spin propaganda for whoever controls the target profit-making industry/company?
-- To be able to tell truth & out-right lies mixed together with no legal accountability.
-- To deceive the public into thinking that they should be listening to your opinion (though a system that allows you to lie) rather than going directly to the target profit-making industry/company to get the real answers (who will be held accountable for their responses as they have no scapegoat)?
Come on. We the people have seen this game played many times before & we have had enough.
That's how you read into that?
Huge companies have PR/Marketing firms and they sometimes make a mistake or two which the CEO usually puts out a statement to correct. It doesn't happen much but it can. I saw nothing in his statement that would reflect that he isn't a reputable source for LabRat mining.
- It was a logical analysis of wording. Time is of the essence for everyone so why should there be any questions of "fact" reliability or emotional jargon that doesn't need to be there?
- "Lab_Rat will confirm (or overrule) when he gets time." - Shouldn't this be done before grnbrg posts "facts" about the Lab_Rat operation? The first recall of posted "facts" will splinter grnbrg's reputation as the reliability of the Lab_Rat system will come into question.
- I am not leaning to either side - for or against - this security at this time as it is still in its introduction phase. Long-term it may shape up. Free markets allow businesses to launch @ any level of development, and logically the bitcoin economy allows for the minimum before launch. When interest arises, plans can change & using the power of the crowd to give the crowd what it wants is the long-term goal of the free market.
"Huge companies have PR/Marketing firms"
- Yes, but this is a small company with a relatively simple business model & not too many things that need to be reworded/remarketed to make the public feel better about it. If Lab_Rat just posted complicated spreadsheets & long word documents with plans, data & analysis -> then the crowd would decipher it (without any need for a PR or Marketing firm to act as an intermediary for the information).
July 18, 2013, 11:51:13 AM
@BitSugar: Point taken. I do need to work on my delivery.
I expect to do largely what I have done with BFL: Consolidate official information on the LRM_News twitter feed, and answer questions where I can find them about the mining company. I don't yet have all the answers on hand, but that will change.
I don't yet have much history on this forum, but I've built a very good reputation on BFL's forum of honesty and accuracy. I intend to continue in that vein.
grnbrg.
I expect to do largely what I have done with BFL: Consolidate official information on the LRM_News twitter feed, and answer questions where I can find them about the mining company. I don't yet have all the answers on hand, but that will change.
I don't yet have much history on this forum, but I've built a very good reputation on BFL's forum of honesty and accuracy. I intend to continue in that vein.
grnbrg.
July 18, 2013, 11:50:27 AM
I was meeting with the individual who is managing the install of proper AC and electricity to the warehouse. This will be done and dealt with before any hardware is received. I will be speaking with Dave again today to see how things are progressing and get some insight into when I should be expecting some good news from Bitfury.
For those of you who are questioning my ability to run the business I would like to state that I am very technical and good with numbers. That does not make someone capable of running a business and intelligent people will admit what they can and can't do. This is why I have taken my own personal money and invested it up front in securing a lawyer and accountant to help manage the business and funds accordingly. I have an electrical engineer available, that will be inspecting the warehouse after all work is completed and before the hardware arrives. In order to get the hardware up and running immediately upon arrival, all of this work will be completed and ready to go.
For those of you who are questioning my ability to run the business I would like to state that I am very technical and good with numbers. That does not make someone capable of running a business and intelligent people will admit what they can and can't do. This is why I have taken my own personal money and invested it up front in securing a lawyer and accountant to help manage the business and funds accordingly. I have an electrical engineer available, that will be inspecting the warehouse after all work is completed and before the hardware arrives. In order to get the hardware up and running immediately upon arrival, all of this work will be completed and ready to go.
July 18, 2013, 11:39:39 AM
I think I can answer some stuff promptly, and Lab_Rat will confirm (or overrule) when he gets time.
grnbrg.
There you go again with your confidence building statements....
So you are establishing NOW that we cannot trust what you post about Lab_Rat as a hired spokesman of Lab_Rat (via disclaimer about confirming or overruling), yet we should make investment choices based upon the "facts" that you present, meanwhile the official "fact" confirmation by Lab_Rat may or may not take place on a fact-by-fact basis. In other words we cannot trust anything you say unless if each statement is confirmed by Lab_Rat, yet you are the only one making statements.
grnbrg, what is your purpose again?
- To act as the mainstream media to spin propaganda for whoever controls the target profit-making industry/company?
-- To be able to tell truth & out-right lies mixed together with no legal accountability.
-- To deceive the public into thinking that they should be listening to your opinion (though a system that allows you to lie) rather than going directly to the target profit-making industry/company to get the real answers (who will be held accountable for their responses as they have no scapegoat)?
Come on. We the people have seen this game played many times before & we have had enough.
That's how you read into that?
Huge companies have PR/Marketing firms and they sometimes make a mistake or two which the CEO usually puts out a statement to correct. It doesn't happen much but it can. I saw nothing in his statement that would reflect that he isn't a reputable source for LabRat mining.
July 18, 2013, 11:28:22 AM
I think I can answer some stuff promptly, and Lab_Rat will confirm (or overrule) when he gets time.
grnbrg.
There you go again with your confidence building statements....
So you are establishing NOW that we cannot trust what you post about Lab_Rat as a hired spokesman of Lab_Rat (via disclaimer about confirming or overruling), yet we should make investment choices based upon the "facts" that you present, meanwhile the official "fact" confirmation by Lab_Rat may or may not take place on a fact-by-fact basis. In other words we cannot trust anything you say unless if each statement is confirmed by Lab_Rat, yet you are the only one making statements.
grnbrg, what is your purpose again?
- To act as the mainstream media to spin propaganda for whoever controls the target profit-making industry/company?
-- To be able to tell truth & out-right lies mixed together with no legal accountability.
-- To deceive the public into thinking that they should be listening to your opinion (though a system that allows you to lie) rather than going directly to the target profit-making industry/company to get the real answers (who will be held accountable for their responses as they have no scapegoat)?
Come on. We the people have seen this game played many times before & we have had enough.
July 18, 2013, 11:24:10 AM
I've been exchanging some email with Lab_Rat...
He indicates that of the current capital from bond sales, around 80% will go into hardware purchases. The rest for overhead and expenses. (Secure data centre, lawyers, etc)
Of the hardware bought, 25% will be for the company, and mine for expenses and new hardware acquisitions. The remaining 75% will pay customer dividends.
The 100MH/s hash rate posted was intended to be seen as a minimum. The actual hash rate associated with a bond may in fact end up considerably higher, depending on what deals can be made. The initial numbers were based on a conservative estimate, and BFL gear. Given that BitFury is in the picture, it is possible that that this number may be much higher, depending on what that 80% of bond sales will buy.
Lab_Rat is meeting with (I think) the BitFury rep right now. He will be back later to confirm the above.
grnbrg.
He indicates that of the current capital from bond sales, around 80% will go into hardware purchases. The rest for overhead and expenses. (Secure data centre, lawyers, etc)
Of the hardware bought, 25% will be for the company, and mine for expenses and new hardware acquisitions. The remaining 75% will pay customer dividends.
The 100MH/s hash rate posted was intended to be seen as a minimum. The actual hash rate associated with a bond may in fact end up considerably higher, depending on what deals can be made. The initial numbers were based on a conservative estimate, and BFL gear. Given that BitFury is in the picture, it is possible that that this number may be much higher, depending on what that 80% of bond sales will buy.
Lab_Rat is meeting with (I think) the BitFury rep right now. He will be back later to confirm the above.
grnbrg.
July 18, 2013, 11:14:14 AM
From what I can see, he is sincere in what he is doing, and is taking pains to do it correctly and transparently. I will see if I can get some more information to post to answer some more questions.
grnbrg.
grnbrg.
@grnbrg - you should stop making emotional statements. These are meaningless and only go to further discredit you. If he is sincere or transparent include a fact or two about it (or link to a post where you do so to avoid duplicate explanations). Telling people to trust him without providing specific facts is much the same as the methods of Piers Morgan on gun control. It will only leave you looking like a fool and with no power-base.
"I will see if I can get some more information to post to answer some more questions."
- "I will see if I can get" does not exude confidence. If you want people to respect you -> you must be more finite "I will get" & you must come through as promised. No side-skirting anything.
- If you are not confident of your ability to get info from labrat then how confident can we be in you (with your partial understanding) & him (with his inability to directly speak to the public)?
July 18, 2013, 11:11:30 AM
@grnbrg, no offense, but we do need to hear these responses directly from Lab_Rat; seeing how he responds, how often he responds, his tone, his transparency, attention to detail, whether he tends to change his mind over time, whether he addresses all concerns in a timely manner or if he sidesteps ones he doesn't want to deal with ... these all help paint a picture of who he is, what kind of company this will likely be, and the sort of service investors can expect in future dealings with him.
Until he provides some tangible information about himself, these indirect 'tells' are really all we have to go on to build some sense of "trust". He really needs to deal with this directly and personally; it is just part of trying to advertise one's business to potential investors. Nothing more than common sense and business etiquette, really.
Asking someone else to be a mouthpiece because he doesn't want to take the time to do it himself does not make a particularly good impression.
I understand. And I'm also still feeling out what I've been asked to do (and shoehorn in beside my day job)....Until he provides some tangible information about himself, these indirect 'tells' are really all we have to go on to build some sense of "trust". He really needs to deal with this directly and personally; it is just part of trying to advertise one's business to potential investors. Nothing more than common sense and business etiquette, really.
Asking someone else to be a mouthpiece because he doesn't want to take the time to do it himself does not make a particularly good impression.
With BFL, my role was pretty straightforward - just consolidate what news was posted in various places into one location for people to monitor, and answer questions with "BFL said this, here." rather than speculate. Lab_Rat has asked me to represent him publicly and officially, and I need to figure out what that role is.
That said, I know he's busy doing the behind-the-scenes stuff, meeting with lawyers and vendors to make sure his endeavour gets off the ground. And I know from watching the attacks on BFL (deserved or otherwise) that if a question is unanswered for more than a couple of hours, it gets a very negative appearance.... I think I can answer some stuff promptly, and Lab_Rat will confirm (or overrule) when he gets time.
grnbrg.
July 18, 2013, 10:59:24 AM
Sure - I think as long as people can see there are genuinely coins being mined, and it's not just originally investments being sent out as "dividends" - even just a bitcoin address should give us the info we need (as long as the same address does all the mining)
July 18, 2013, 10:30:38 AM
Question for LabRat - I have a concern regarding your answer to question 4 above. The problem is this could allow you to run as a Ponzi Scheme (which I am absolutely not suggesting you are doing). Could you have a think about that problem, because as an investor in LabRatMining (hey, hi, congrats, I have faith in you man) - I want more people to invest so we can get up to those 150mh/share figures :-)
At the moment, Lab_Rat has been considering creating a private pool for the mining company -- he said as much above. It makes sense in some ways: Harder to attack and DDOS. But definitely less transparent. If the people who are putting money in feel that it's a problem, then he could always do as other mining companies do, and mine on several public pools. More transparency, but also more risk. I'll let him weigh in on it.
grnbrg.
July 18, 2013, 10:28:58 AM
heh - did you buy apple products? Steve Jobs was a massive a-hole.
July 18, 2013, 10:27:27 AM
@grnbrg, no offense, but we do need to hear these responses directly from Lab_Rat; seeing how he responds, how often he responds, his tone, his transparency, attention to detail, whether he tends to change his mind over time, whether he addresses all concerns in a timely manner or if he sidesteps ones he doesn't want to deal with ... these all help paint a picture of who he is, what kind of company this will likely be, and the sort of service investors can expect in future dealings with him.
Until he provides some tangible information about himself, these indirect 'tells' are really all we have to go on to build some sense of "trust". He really needs to deal with this directly and personally; it is just part of trying to advertise one's business to potential investors. Nothing more than common sense and business etiquette, really.
Asking someone else to be a mouthpiece because he doesn't want to take the time to do it himself does not make a particularly good impression.
Until he provides some tangible information about himself, these indirect 'tells' are really all we have to go on to build some sense of "trust". He really needs to deal with this directly and personally; it is just part of trying to advertise one's business to potential investors. Nothing more than common sense and business etiquette, really.
Asking someone else to be a mouthpiece because he doesn't want to take the time to do it himself does not make a particularly good impression.
July 18, 2013, 10:25:11 AM
I agree with grnbrg, I see it as a high risk high reward thing - just like BTC generally.
July 18, 2013, 10:05:54 AM
@Lab_Rat has offered to pay me to answer questions... There goes my credibility. 
(For the record, I've risked around $5k (dollars) with LRM. Not a lot, but not an insignificant amount, either.)
I've watched him work the BFL forums since October last year, answering questions and helping out. I've also talked directly to him for quite a bit in the last month or two, both before and after he started working on this mining project.
From what I can see, he is sincere in what he is doing, and is taking pains to do it correctly and transparently. I will see if I can get some more information to post to answer some more questions.
From my point of view, the company is legitimate, and there is a good chance that I will profit from what I have invested. That said: Yes, there is risk. No one is forcing anyone to invest, though.
grnbrg.
(For the record, I've risked around $5k (dollars) with LRM. Not a lot, but not an insignificant amount, either.)I've watched him work the BFL forums since October last year, answering questions and helping out. I've also talked directly to him for quite a bit in the last month or two, both before and after he started working on this mining project.
From what I can see, he is sincere in what he is doing, and is taking pains to do it correctly and transparently. I will see if I can get some more information to post to answer some more questions.
From my point of view, the company is legitimate, and there is a good chance that I will profit from what I have invested. That said: Yes, there is risk. No one is forcing anyone to invest, though.
grnbrg.
July 18, 2013, 09:55:04 AM
Zachary Dailey
1 McKinley Dr
Ocean, New Jersey 07712
United States
Is that you? Might be worth knowing just to make sure we know who we're dealing with.
Question for LabRat - I have a concern regarding your answer to question 4 above. The problem is this could allow you to run as a Ponzi Scheme (which I am absolutely not suggesting you are doing). Could you have a think about that problem, because as an investor in LabRatMining (hey, hi, congrats, I have faith in you man) - I want more people to invest so we can get up to those 150mh/share figures :-)
Also, could you give a little more assurance on how hash rate increases would work - being a bond/share hybrid it would be good to get some clarify. If my understanding is correct you are offering shares with a minimum hash rate, and new hash rate within the company would be distributed amongst share holders. Have I understood that correctly?
As I posted on BFL forum, I sold my preorders to invest with you, so I'm really looking forward to it.
Best Vince
1 McKinley Dr
Ocean, New Jersey 07712
United States
Is that you? Might be worth knowing just to make sure we know who we're dealing with.
Question for LabRat - I have a concern regarding your answer to question 4 above. The problem is this could allow you to run as a Ponzi Scheme (which I am absolutely not suggesting you are doing). Could you have a think about that problem, because as an investor in LabRatMining (hey, hi, congrats, I have faith in you man) - I want more people to invest so we can get up to those 150mh/share figures :-)
Also, could you give a little more assurance on how hash rate increases would work - being a bond/share hybrid it would be good to get some clarify. If my understanding is correct you are offering shares with a minimum hash rate, and new hash rate within the company would be distributed amongst share holders. Have I understood that correctly?
As I posted on BFL forum, I sold my preorders to invest with you, so I'm really looking forward to it.
Best Vince
July 18, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
July 18, 2013, 01:49:45 AM
Interested in investing, but it doesn't seem like the numbers are working out.
100,000 shares @ .15 = 15,000 btc (edit..just realized you are releasing the shares in a tiered fashion and I've under estimated the amount you would receive through your IPO, but the point stands)
With 15,000 btc, you could purchase approximately 208 KnC Jupiter devices for ~83Th/s in October. As a comparison to your plan, you are currently guaranteeing 10Th/s assuming BFL delivery which is questionable at best.
If for example I was to invest 72 btc in your company (approximately the going price for a 400Gh Jupiter) I would receive 480 shares (assuming all 100,000 shares are sold and the min. is 150MH/s) or a guaranteed 72 Gh/s.
What portion of your profits on the difference are you investing in additional hardware? Do you expect to be able to hold a set percentage of total network hash rate like Asicminer attempts to do?
100,000 shares @ .15 = 15,000 btc (edit..just realized you are releasing the shares in a tiered fashion and I've under estimated the amount you would receive through your IPO, but the point stands)
With 15,000 btc, you could purchase approximately 208 KnC Jupiter devices for ~83Th/s in October. As a comparison to your plan, you are currently guaranteeing 10Th/s assuming BFL delivery which is questionable at best.
If for example I was to invest 72 btc in your company (approximately the going price for a 400Gh Jupiter) I would receive 480 shares (assuming all 100,000 shares are sold and the min. is 150MH/s) or a guaranteed 72 Gh/s.
What portion of your profits on the difference are you investing in additional hardware? Do you expect to be able to hold a set percentage of total network hash rate like Asicminer attempts to do?
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