Topic: Lab Rat Data Processing, LLC (LabRatMining) Official Announcement - page 270. (Read 452180 times)

Those that were sold were sold through BitFunder, not privately.  A few were done privately as to prove to Ukto that there was interest in the company.  Thank you btcmonkey and bargraphics for explaining things to people who choose not to read or can't find what I've typed.

I'll take option 3, minus the derogatory terms please.  Some people were planning on running 3MRs at 1500W not 6750W and don't want to run them themselves.

Sure! To offset the share price devaluation, the hashrate of each share has to rise in the exact same % as the increase in % of the global bitcoin network hashrate. If the network increases 6x, each share should be 600MH/s. Less than that and it lost value.

Using the 166.67MH/s per share means that the share only devalues after the network hasrate has passed ~250TH*1.6667 = 416.67 TH/s. I'm expecting this in August, with most of 100TH getting online and the Avalon chips shipping en masse.

I still don't see you figuring in the "Free" additional hashrate as the company expands, which should offset your "share value goes down"

Stop those meaningless calculation please........ the question is simple get nothing or get rich.....

The most important thing to know is that network difficulty adapts so that the number of blocks mined is always as close as possible to 6 blocks every hour. This means that around BTC3600 are mined per day (25*6*24).

The current network hashrate is ~250TH/s, so 100MH/s will earn you BTC3600*0.1/250000 = BTC0.00144 per day. 100MH/s represents 0.00004% of the network.

When the network hashrate is ~1500TH/s, 100MH/s will earn you BTC3600*0.1/1500000 = BTC0.00024 per day. 100MH/s then represents 0.00000667% of the network, which is 6x less, this is why the share value goes down.

Paying BTC0.15 for something that represents BTC0.00144 per day might be good now, but not later.

two months before ,some one paid 50KUSD for a Avalon over e-bay , for 200K isn't a large amount whatever you look at it...

About the selling ,I observed  yesterday's bid wall ,there are only bid up for few hundreds of the contracts.
 I have no clue why it become that much today , However, I know that you are attracted by this plan , I just wish you do not get ripped by this and get nicely return on it .
As long as I am prudent investor , I will never put my money into these pre-orders...

In Finland we have about 5.5 million people.

For Finland 0.5% pa for normal bank account is normal.

We pay for credit in bank about 3.5%-> any way to put money to earn money more than 3.5% is profit EVEN if you take credit from bank.

AND YOU ARE TELLING THAT PRICE FOR SHARE WILL GO DOWN?
If share will pay dividends less than 10% pa, then it price will go down....

If it will - seller side is a idiot.

(imho)

The only thing that you must to believe that bitcoin will not drop less that 99$/btc

I will be surprised if even the first 20k are sold, ( the ones already sold are sold "privetly" )

It's not an annual return when the share value is going down faster than what you receive in dividends during that time-frame. Annual return supposes you can (1) sell it at the same price as you bought it one year later, while (2) earning dividends during a year. Unfortunately, condition #1 doesn't hold.


Wrong!

Totally fair sentiment. Though I have a lot of issues with BFL, I do think they will deliver *eventually*. I don't know enough about bitfury to make the judgement though (which is its own concern). I think we will know a lot more about that within the next two weeks. Perhaps that is the time for some to reevaluate this investment.

The question isn't really concern with any math calculation ,is just mean you get good return if bitfurry made its promised, or you get nothing...
This is a gamble on pre-order , If I willing to take the risk I will rather go for pre-order by myself ,since more hashrate efficiency than buying this mining contract.

Did you miss that my whole argument is that 0.15 per 100MH/s when network 1500TH/s is still a good price (~58% annual return)? Totally competitive with anyone in the market (by orders of magnitude). If you did the math assuming ~250TH/s network (poor decision IMO), then the estimated rate of return is like 350% (meaning you earn 3.5BTC per 1 BTC invested). So yes an 83% 'devaluation' from ridiculous to pretty-good-and-totally-competitive.

I think that both BFL and Bitfurry can not put its product into mass production...this why any mining bond based on their devices are just mean get nothing in the future for whatever price you pay for.

The only counter measure to this is if bitcoin price continues to go back up.

The problem is right here. You can say that BTC0.15 per 100MH/s is a great price right now (network at ~250TH/s), but when the network reaches 1500TH/s, 100MH/s is worth then 0.15*250/1500 = BTC0.025, an 83% devaluation.

No , I just do not believe that Bitfurry can delivery its 28NM standards product within time...Based on my understanding to IC industries, that manufactures which capable to producing at 28nm standard are too over schedule its production capability to those graphic card ,mobile phone companies and so on. even 40NM manufactures have the same issues.  below are my 2 reasons that supporting Bitfurry can't get its production on time.

1: High demand with those 28NM manufactures.
2: Huge cost to get new chips into production line .(For the scale of mining chips those manufactures may never get interest to put them into their production line, this mean the cost is far beyond what Bitfurry or other company can bearing)

BFL is a good example, why can't they get their product into mass production?(I think they facing the problems I mentioned above) Compare BFL with Bitfurry I think BFL should got more pre-orders, even they get failed what should I think Bitfurry can succeed ?

This just my personal perception , if you feel wrong you can ignored it .

This security provides a return that is an order of magnitude more than most of its competitors. It is totally competitive in its own market. I think it is fine to question the value of the market (though existing interest seems to be speaking for itself), but don't blame this single security.

I also understand people's concern about wording of the prospectus and what may be missing, not covered, or inappropriate. I also get the argument about the bads of centralized mining corporations and arguments comparing this class of securities to raw physical mining. I think those thoughts need to enter into your valuation of this equity, but decisions based on those issues are pretty personal and tough to quantify.

I am more concerned of there being no clear indicator of when mining will come online (and even more, if it is piecemeal as has recently been discussed, how can you commit to 100MH/s out the gate).

Given that though, thinking about when mining may come online, even with a high estimate of total network hashrate and an underestimate of what Lab_Rat would deliver, it seems like, for a bond/security of this type, this has a decent raw ROI of dividends.

I will make a couple assumptions for this analysis, that you are free to challenge but I consider reasonable or conservative (at least the first 4).
1) This stock will start delivering dividends in the month of October.
2) The total network hash rate will hit 1500 TH/s (1.5PH/s - peta hash) by that time.
3) Lab_Rat will only ever deliver equivalent of 100MH/s per share. (contrary to stated plan)
4) These shares will continue to be worth 0.15 BTCs each with no growth (or reduction).
5) A year later the network hash rate will be around 8PH/s.

Please help me check my math:

with 1500TH/s, aka 1,500,000,000MH/s (~210million difficulty)
at 3600 BTC generated per day across the network (on average)
then 0.000002394253791 BTC will be generated per day per MH/s (3600/1500000000)

@ 100MH/s each share will deliver 0.0002394253791 BTC per day (100 * 0.000002394253791)
@ 365 days in a year each share will deliver 0.0873902633715 BTC per year (365 * 0.0002394253791)
@ .15 per share price the calculated % return of this stock, in dividends, is 58.25% (0.0873902633715/.15)

Though this is incomplete (especially in assuming a one time starting hash rate for an annual return), this seems to be the type of analysis many are doing to identify value of dividends for comparison sake. 58.25% seems particularly high for this class of stock. If you add in the chance for 166 or 200MH/s stocks (likely) and increases in security values (likely) then it gets even better.

Going to the other extreme where I assume the year-later hashrate of 8 Petahash/s the same calculation nets a dividend return of 11%. This seems low for a stock with this risk profile, but high compared to peers and pretty ok given that this assumes no growth in stock and no increase over 100MH/s.

Whether you want to hold up BTC in a stock that won't pay dividends for 3 months is another thing. If we consider our year starting now, then that 58.25% return turns into 3/4 of itself or 43.69%.

You seem like a smart guy,

I'm sure you can read, he mentioned he has a meeting with a Bitfury Rep and they promise delivery in August/October.

I personally have 8.5TH split up between 4 different companies all coming at anytime between now and October.

Lets put it this way, if you buy at .15, and then the price goes to .19 then you made .04 per share + whatever dividends you got.

He's already pulled in > $150,000 worth of BTC. That should get him a good start. The biggest risk to these are if enough people don't back the person but it looks like that isn't an issue.

The problem is you may not see any dividend before 2015....why should you bother with its rate of return?
Possibly nothing in 2 years time or instant less return as 26% with ASICMINER or Coinlender , Please make your choice?

In fact ,gives me your BTC , I promised you that in 2015 I will mining at 1000M/HASH @today's 0.15BTC per contract...I promise it to you ..... of course I would not to doing that anyway ,I just want to let you know that TIME=RISK.