Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 570. (Read 1079974 times)

Heh, you just reminded me to check my namecoin settings on BTCGuild, apparently I've gotten about 4.2 NMC per BTC, and at the current BTC-e price of 0.00472, that comes out to about 0.01975 BTC worth of namecoin per bitcoin, or about 2%.

And yeah, that drops the pool fee to around 1%.


Right I pointed that out, they're not exactly the same, there is also a pool fee.

However, like I said you have to balance risk and reward.  Solo mining at 2Th/s in order to avoid Pool fees means taking a huge risk, when the reward is just a 3% savings in pool fees (and just 1% if you sell your NMC). I don't really think it's a good idea.

Plus as you say, people want to see the money coming in, especially when the company is brand new and there's so much skepticism. Mining on a pool would both reduce risk in the short term, as well as provide an easy and verifiable way to view the hashrate (putting the hashrate on the site isn't verifiable)

Think about it this way.  You put your money in a bank with zero interest. The risk is zero and the reward is zero.

Now suppose you put your money in a bank, and that bank took that money to Vegas and bet it all on black (for now ignore the 00 and assume a 50% red/black wheel) ]In this case, your risk of losing all your money would be 50%, and your potential reward is 200%.  They balance out! So it's totally the same as putting your money in the bank and having it sit there, right? Since the expected outcome is the same!

obviously people would be incredibly pissed if they found out about it. A lot of people would probably even be pissed if the bank won and their accounts doubled.



Actually a closer analogy would be if the bank charged you 3% if you just let it sit there but told you they would charge 0% interest if they could bet half the deposit on red/black only roulette today, and a week later bet one quarter, then one eight, etc.

Also early low hashrate dividends are going to be very small regardless of the method.

However, I admit I like to watch my balance slowly increase in my pool and agree it would be boring to stare at a solo miner doing nothing 99% of the time...

The ponies oddly enough were the highlight of this week  
I do see a correlation between ponies and this thread since its usually off topic most of the time whistle and spreads doom a lot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYaYhNDnImk

As for namecoin mining merged mining still comes in handy may as well get the namecoins while they are at it unless there is a cost to doing so.

Well, they may be worried about things like, they might have to shut down and restart their systems, they might have small amounts of downtime, etc and they don't want people to flip out.  It's understandable they might not want to share everything in real time at first. But still, I'm hoping they come to their senses.

And, until they start marking blocks, they need to give us the TXIds of blocks they find. Some of them have huge TX fees, like this one from that address someone mentioned, with a 12btc tx fee. That's a $1,400 fee



The risk and reward are balanced but the variance is far higher.  it's not at all the same.

Think about it this way.  You put your money in a bank with zero interest. The risk is zero and the reward is zero.

Now suppose you put your money in a bank, and that bank took that money to Vegas and bet it all on black (for now ignore the 00 and assume a 50% red/black wheel)

In this case, your risk of losing all your money would be 50%, and your potential reward is 200%.  They balance out! So it's totally the same as putting your money in the bank and having it sit there, right? Since the expected outcome is the same!

obviously people would be incredibly pissed if they found out about it. A lot of people would probably even be pissed if the bank won and their accounts doubled.

Because the entire point of investing is to increase your reward at the same risk.  not take on extra risk for no extra reward.

Pool on BTCGuild PPLNS are around 3%.  So for labcoin to do solo mining, they are essentially putting investor money at risk in exchange for a 3% increase in potential profit. And at the same time, because of the difficulty increases runs of bad luck are not going to be recovered by runs of good luck in the future. Any money lost at high difficulty is lost forever.  Massively increasing variance in order to capture a 3% increase in expected value is ridiculous.

Plus, they don't even have their block marking code ready yet. So people are going to be suspicious about it being a total scam, or that they might not actually be hashing yet.

If Labcoin wants to do solo mining when they hit 50% Th/s, that's fine I suppose. But not even ASICMiner did solo mining when they started.  They mined on a pool (On BTCGuild, as well as ozcoin, I think)

Hopefully they come to their senses.

And probably they will.  If they're solo mining and marking their blocks publicly, how's it going to look when they go days without finding a block.  Investors are going to be flipping out. If you think this thread is bad, just wait. It will happen. And hopefully it changes their minds.

However it is just as likely the solo miner will be lucky as unlucky and therefore just as likely he will make more money early than the pooled miner.  The risk is greater, but the potential gain is equal to the risk. Another way to look at it is that the pooled miner risks not having a chance of making a big early score before difficulty increases.

Unless they are stupid I really wonder why they decided to solo mine, they could have been collecting revenue from the get go and the first dividend would be very nice. (Might not be a lot but its something)

With the hash rate increase solomining with 0.002% of network power seems like a bad idea.

There must be a reason.


Oh there it is.

Anyway, here's an example to help show why solo mining is a terrible idea.

Let's imagine two players playing a game. One player flips a coin 10 times and gets $1 every time it comes up heads.  On average, he'll make $5.

The other player has a 20 sided die, which he rolls 10 times.  If it comes up with a '1' he gets $10  On average Just like the coin flipper, on average he gets $5. 

The reason is that the coin flip has 2 possibilities, on of which is winning, and the die roller has 20 possibilities, one of which wins 10x as much.  So in the long run they make the same amount of money.

Now, in the long run the amount of money they make is the same.  Sometimes the dice roller will never roll one, sometimes they'll roll a 1 twice and every once in a while they'll role a 1 every single time and make $200!   All of that should even out in the end.

But, let's change the rules and say after 10 flips/rolls the reward is halved, from $1 to $0.5, to $0.25, etc.   And from $10, to $5, to $2.50. (Sound familiar?)

In that case, if the person has bad luck in one round, they will never have the opportunity to earn that back by having good luck in a later round!

Now, I suppose that doesn't matter as much if you're constantly adding hash power to keep up with the network, but there's no guarantee labcoin will be able to do that.  ASICMiner is down from 20% to like 6%.    And they could have good early luck instead of bad early luck, which won't be balanced out by bad luck in the future.

However, investors are already taking enough risk as it is with this stock, and you should not be gambling with investor money, which is what solo mining at 2TH/s is doing. Plus, pooled mining is easier to verify – everyone will be able to see the hashrate, and when blocks are found by the pool and calculate how much they should be getting.

So yeah, I don't think Labcoin should be solo mining at this point. 

Well, looks like this thread was completely ridiculous again.  Too bad I missed the sell-off/rebound but I would have had to transfer more coins and would probably have missed it.

I think there are a couple reasons why people are spreading so much B.S/Fud.  

1) Butthurt ActiveMining investors - either steveioio/sutartUK actually said that there would be a 'troll army' descending on this thread as "payback" for mabsark and others somehow destroying ActM's share price.  So some of the trolls are likely those people. (Kind of hard to tell those two apart and honestly they seem like the same person)

2) People just trolling to drive the price down, or just for fun.

3) Genuine nutcases like MPOE-PR (who Mircea Popescu still claims isn't him, but rather an actual woman who works for him.)

Well, given that you are hashing at 2Th/s you should have found at least a block or two by now.

Since you're not marking your blocks yet, you should tell us the txids you generated when you found them.

If you haven't found any blocks yet, well that's an object lesson in why you shouldn't be solo mining

ASICMiner had 50TH in July........


when these dividends come out Labcoin is going to have some flighty investors

This is nothing compared to PETA-MINE. Gonna need a truckload of smelling salts over there.

TH/s

As I said before to someone commenting on that. What do you expect? Do you want me to flip flop sides? I don't think I'm a FUD at all. I would definitely have fear investing in scamcoin, but I wouldn't be uncertain or doubtful. I absolutely know where the company is going. Down the shitter. Shit like this almost makes me want to make my own scam because people this fucking dumb deserve to lose their money. I'm an honest guy and maybe I could get over the ethics of it knowing the investors are just soooooo stupid that If I didn't steal it from them someone else would.

Blockchain.info won't know what blocks from labcoin right away.  They still aren't counting blocks for ghash.io's blocks. Ghash.io sends all their block rewards to a single address, so it should be easy to track, but for whatever reason they haven't done so.

That would actually be the easiest way to keep track, since anyone could look up an address and see how many 25btc 'newly generated' coins showed up.


If you think those are "photoshop artifacts", you've obviously never actually done any photoshopping...  Just doing a quick clone stamp wouldn't leave any stretched out marks like that at all.

Also writing on chips is typically oriented with the '1' pin in the lower left.  If there had been writing in that location, it would have been with the '1' pin in the upper left. I suppose it's not impossible, but seems pretty unlikely.

Almost as gross as your post history which is only posting FUD here since the newbie section.

LOL.. I think this may very well be the update they promised within 48 hours! Sorry folks.. no pics. This is the grossest thing I've ever seen in my life. I love how they are already using the classic "soon" term.

I'm all in on this one, will either be the best thing I've ever done or the dumbest.  weeeeeee 

Swede now offline..

Perhaps you should begin your inquiry by asking one or both of them if they interchangeably swap login credentials.

I don't see how such information would be proof of nefarious activity at any rate. It'd be rather odd though.

Swede talks mostly perty good, and the usual labcoin poster seems to be struggling with a language that's not native to him/her.

Can a mod double check the IPs for Labcoin and TheSwede, to make sure they are not the same person?