[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 62.

BitThink

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Quote from: Puppet on October 08, 2013, 04:53:52 AM

Quote from: BitThink on October 08, 2013, 04:30:20 AM

They claimed to collect 7000 BTC for mass production of gen1 chips and design gen2 chips. If we can prove these BTC are not used in these two purposes,

In fact, we can actually prove they did spend some money to develop these chips (cf Howard wang and TheSeven) and they could easily argue that development is ongoing. Missing deadlines and being or hiring incompetent people is not a crime. Selling unregistered securities however, is. As is making materially incorrect statements in your prospectus. But those are SEC issues.

Quote

Fabriazio is deceiving since he is the legal representative of the company that initiating this (virtual) IPO.

How would you prove that? The IPO was done by "sam", no one knows who he is or if he even exists. How do you prove Fabrizio is even involved? Dont get me wrong, I have no doubt he is involved, as is Alberto, but IMO you will not be able to prove this without getting the SEC involved and subpoena BTCT. Those documents that were published dont prove a damn thing, I dont even see Fabrizio's signature on there. Anyone could produce those.

Fabriazio admitted himself he has signed a contract, and Howard met him face to face. So he definitely is involved. He has to find a lawyer, not us, to defence for him.

Whether to report to SEC or police does not matter. Why not just report to both?

Puppet

legendary

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Quote from: BitThink on October 08, 2013, 04:30:20 AM

They claimed to collect 7000 BTC for mass production of gen1 chips and design gen2 chips. If we can prove these BTC are not used in these two purposes,

In fact, we can actually prove they did spend some money to develop these chips (cf Howard wang and TheSeven) and they could easily argue that development is ongoing. Missing deadlines and being or hiring incompetent people is not a crime. Selling unregistered securities however, is. As is making materially incorrect statements in your prospectus. But those are SEC issues.

Quote

Fabriazio is deceiving since he is the legal representative of the company that initiating this (virtual) IPO.

How would you prove that? The IPO was done by "sam", no one knows who he is or if he even exists. How do you prove Fabrizio is even involved? Dont get me wrong, I have no doubt he is involved, as is Alberto, but IMO you will not be able to prove this without getting the SEC involved and subpoena BTCT. Those documents that were published dont prove a damn thing, I dont even see Fabrizio's signature on there. Anyone could produce those.

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

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Scam has to be punished.

Otherwise, even if we lose little or even gain a little in this case, we may lose a lot in another one. Even we are always careful and lucky, the public confidence will go away and eventually be harmful to the whole bitcoin economy.

That's the reason why we have to find a way to fight with this scam no matter whether we are victims or not.

Moreover, if a registered company with CEO's name listed in a scam and this guy can be free of penalty by just saying "I don't know anything and I am not really involved", then don't expect any future (virtual) IPO can have any creditability.

How about let's create a volunteer group to unite us together in taking legal action against Fabriazio and Allesia?

kmtan

full member

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I love Bitcoin

labcoin.....too much excuse from them ...i sold all the share at very early stage after purchase in with a little lost...

BitThink

legendary

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Quote from: Puppet on October 08, 2013, 03:31:44 AM

Quote from: TsuyokuNaritai on October 08, 2013, 03:27:23 AM

It's called fraud. Intentional deception made for personal gain.

What deception do you intend to prove, and who deceived you ? Be precise.

They claimed to collect 7000 BTC for mass production of gen1 chips and design gen2 chips. If we can prove these BTC are not used in these two purposes, then it is a fraud. Fabriazio is deceiving since he is the legal representative of the company that initiating this (virtual) IPO.

bitmoon

sr. member

Activity: 242

Merit: 250

if labcoin dont log within this week, consider he/she legged it and gone.

all this mess, and not even small post for investor on btct, he slept all over all this mess.

swede if u reading it, why not post in btct to give investors info where to contact u, or some other info that investor need, like how other issuers did, they gave news to there investors on btct about what happen and what to do.

and you did nothing, lol , u r really not nice PR. if u dont have labcoin main login btct, then ok sorry.

then why not post here as soon u logged in when bitcointalk was up, u just left, what a nice PR

Puppet

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Quote from: TsuyokuNaritai on October 08, 2013, 03:27:23 AM

It's called fraud. Intentional deception made for personal gain.

What deception do you intend to prove, and who deceived you ? Be precise.

TsuyokuNaritai

hero member

Activity: 574

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Quote from: Puppet on October 08, 2013, 03:12:59 AM

Reality check; what laws did these people break? Labcoin doesnt even exist as a legal entity, and there is no contract that binds anyone.

It's called fraud. Intentional deception made for personal gain.

bitmoon

sr. member

Activity: 242

Merit: 250

Quote from: BitThink on October 08, 2013, 03:04:58 AM

Do you really believe one can leave peacefully with 10BTC after two month's work and found out the project has successfully collected $700K? Do you really believe Allesia will be so stupid to piss off an former employee knows everything about it is a scam? Howard can be forgiven only if he help us to prove Allesia is guilty in the court.

true kinda, if howard would have alerted us before ipo started , it would have saved us.

to clarify, in what state did howard see labcoin when he checked btct, did he see it listed as frozen, did he see it in ipo process, or did he see it when prices started stablize around 0.0016 in few days.

if the two former statement is what he saw, he could have saved us.

the latter, can still safe alot people getting ripped from dump/pump.

in any condition, he just kept quite, until few days ago investors got him in contact, honestly i feel disgusted.

i dont care if he got paid 10btc and saw labcoin is million dollar, he stayed quite after noticing, his damn name is there and still just turned away.

yes howard can help, but he should be bit guilty of ignoring, he himself lost trust in them before he left, and he damn didnt care about investors ripping each other while believing howard is making asics, while whole time he already studying his course in america,

he can be innocent, but guilty of ignoring and giving blind eye

BitThink

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Quote from: Puppet on October 08, 2013, 03:12:59 AM

Reality check; what laws did these people break? Labcoin doesnt even exist as a legal entity, and there is no contract that binds anyone. Its even not obvious to prove involvement of the Alessi's, Ive not seen their signature on any document, all we have is hearsay.

The only way I see to get to them is by reporting them to security and exchange commissions for selling unregistered securities. If you are in the US, just contact the SEC. If you are in Hong Kong, contact the SFC. Ive only glanced over HK law, but selling unregistered company shares appears just as illegal there as it is in almost all other countries:

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind.nsf/CurAllEngDoc/42CE7AADFA70346548257A56000C69A2?OpenDocument

Great idea.

TsuyokuNaritai

hero member

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Quote from: drawingthesun on October 08, 2013, 02:56:57 AM

If they own 90%+ of all shares, how can they dump? They would just be dumping into their own hands.

I just suggested a buyback because I reckon only a few hundred thousand shares are left that are not owned by Labcoin and thus it would be much easier at this point in time to just payoff the remainding shares and be done with it.

I see no situation where they need to dump a large amount of shares, they can pull off the scam without needing to.

This is fantasy.

There will still be lots of other shareholders. Ukyo and Burnside say they haven't sold. There also will be lots of people who don't pay attention to the news on a day to day basis, or just can't bring themselves to sell at this point just in case. People in the Labcoin IRC have been cursing Labcoin's name while still talking about holding shares they can't bring themselves to give up on at this price.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Reality check; what laws did these people break? Labcoin doesnt even exist as a legal entity, and there is no contract that binds anyone. Its even not obvious to prove involvement of the Alessi's, Ive not seen their signature on any document, all we have is hearsay.

The only way I see to get to them is by reporting them to security and exchange commissions for selling unregistered securities. If you are in the US, just contact the SEC. If you are in Hong Kong, contact the SFC. Ive only glanced over HK law, but selling unregistered company shares appears just as illegal there as it is in almost all other countries:

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind.nsf/CurAllEngDoc/42CE7AADFA70346548257A56000C69A2?OpenDocument

bitmoon

sr. member

Activity: 242

Merit: 250

Quote from: drawingthesun on October 08, 2013, 03:00:35 AM

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:58:13 AM

Quote from: dexX7 on October 08, 2013, 02:42:35 AM

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:39:08 AM

...

Don't blame it on others, especially not those who are trying to help now.

i blame howard abit, he just turned away after noticing labcoin is listed with his name in contract while in reality he already left them before labcoin came into btct, he should feel bad, honestly.

now is way too late when his emails came to light

Another aspect of this scam, everyone including Howard are going to be playing the innocent person taken advantage of.

What I mean is everyone will be saying how they were promised pay and made only 10 bitcoin.

I am very sure everyone in this scam has made bank. Howard has most likely made much more than 10 bitcoin.

But yeah you guys trust the scammers and the scamming downtrodden employees.

you know what, when i heard howard had left, i think labcoin said it, but he said it way late when his lies started coming up.
u know what i thought when i heard that, i thought could be howard taken huge sum of ipo and paid his tuition with stolen investors bitcoin

BitThink

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Activity: 882

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Do you really believe one can leave peacefully with 10BTC after two month's work and found out the project has successfully collected $700K? Do you really believe Allesia will be so stupid to piss off an former employee knows everything about it is a scam? Howard can be forgiven only if he help us to prove Allesia is guilty in the court.

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:58:13 AM

Quote from: dexX7 on October 08, 2013, 02:42:35 AM

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:39:08 AM

...

Don't blame it on others, especially not those who are trying to help now.

i blame howard abit, he just turned away after noticing labcoin is listed with his name in contract while in reality he already left them before labcoin came into btct, he should feel bad, honestly.

now is way too late when his emails came to light

Another aspect of this scam, everyone including Howard are going to be playing the innocent person taken advantage of.

What I mean is everyone will be saying how they were promised pay and made only 10 bitcoin.

I am very sure everyone in this scam has made bank. Howard has most likely made much more than 10 bitcoin.

But yeah you guys trust the scammers and the scamming downtrodden employees.

bitmoon

sr. member

Activity: 242

Merit: 250

Quote from: dexX7 on October 08, 2013, 02:42:35 AM

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:39:08 AM

...

Don't blame it on others, especially not those who are trying to help now.

i blame howard abit, he just turned away after noticing labcoin is listed with his name in contract while in reality he already left them before labcoin came into btct, he should feel bad, honestly.

now is way too late when his emails came to light

drawingthesun

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1015

Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:50:35 AM

well when btct shuts down, then this so called electronic shares, vanished, they can delete logs they have, and dissolve labcoin project from itec, so i mean as if they gonna care about buyback, and shares it self, the whole thing.

they can dump the remaing 2million or so and run away now, yet they didnt, wait a min, maybe they did dump all share slowly after we knew the 2million share left, and only investors are ripping them selfs

If they own 90%+ of all shares, how can they dump? They would just be dumping into their own hands.

I just suggested a buyback because I reckon only a few hundred thousand shares are left that are not owned by Labcoin and thus it would be much easier at this point in time to just payoff the remainding shares and be done with it.

I see no situation where they need to dump a large amount of shares, they can pull off the scam without needing to.

BitThink

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Quote from: bitmoon on October 08, 2013, 02:50:35 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on October 08, 2013, 02:21:34 AM

Quote from: BitThink on October 08, 2013, 02:18:43 AM

Actually now you are suggesting people to hold the shares in the hope of they finally refund them.

Actually I am not suggesting to hold the shares, if this is a scam I expect a buyback at some point but I doubt it would be anything significant. Think of Labcoin and Active Mining as a stupid tax.

I would think a reasonable buyback at 0.0001 otherwise they are just giving bitcoin away.

Disclaimer: I held Labcoin and sold, but I also hold Active Mining and am one of the "stupids" unfortunately Sad

EDIT: remember the buyback amount depends on how many shares they have acquired using other accounts. If I am wrong and they hold less than 95% of shares, then the buyback would have to be far less than 0.0001 to make the scam worthwhile. If they hold 99%, they might just not bother with a buyback at all because not enough people will be left to complain.

Labcoin owns 99% shares, reasonable buyback = 0 (no point, not enough share holders to complain)
Labcoin owns 98% shares, reasonable buyback = 0.00015
Labcoin owns 95% shares, reasonable buyback = 0.0001
Labcoin owns 90% shares, reasonable buyback = 0.00005
Labcoin owns 80% shares, reasonable buyback = 0.00001

well when btct shuts down, then this so called electronic shares, vanished, they can delete logs they have, and dissolve labcoin project from itec, so i mean as if they gonna care about buyback, and shares it self, the whole thing.

they can dump the remaing 2million or so and run away now, yet they didnt, wait a min, maybe they did dump all share slowly after we knew the 2million share left, and only investors are ripping them selfs

Buying back all shares does not make them innocent at all. Selling all shares does not make the investors not angry any more either. It is equally guilty to collect money and manipulated the price to almost 0 with scam and buy them back.

If I were in Hong Kong, I would report the police now. I believe the police in Hong Kong is trust-able. Just don't understand why there's no one have already done this. We cannot silently accept this and let the criminals at large.

alphaking

member

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Quote from: BitCsByBit on October 08, 2013, 02:39:30 AM

BTC Garden had to cancel their IPO but they still managed to produce ASIC chips and they have pictures to prove it!!!

http://imgur.com/ZovSsoO,R7NLNCy,D3JuFnL,979ZS0L,nRX6Jbw,6lgZaOP#0

Chinese guys are more trustworthy than these Italian liars.

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: drawingthesun on October 08, 2013, 02:47:23 AM

Quote from: BitThink on October 08, 2013, 02:44:10 AM

Apparently Fabriazio and Allesia Totti need to be reported to the police as soon as possible. Fabriazio is who running the company and signed the contract. Both TheSeven and Howard can prove Allesia is the one hired them and initiated this project and she was still involved at least on 20 Aug (she contacted Howard that time). They know whether 'Sam' exists or not. But even 'Sam' exists, they are as liable as him.

Well if these people have scammed everyone they need to be doxxed asap. I get the feeling they are going to get away with it.

Fabriazio is working in a Chinese mobile company as director of International Relation. It's easy to locate him. One of us has even emailed his employer, but there's no update from him yet. Allesia is his sister, so once seized, Fabriazio could help us to find her. Then they can lead us to 'Sam', if he exists at all.

Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 62. (Read 1079974 times)