[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 800.

dhenson

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Quote from: Ytterbium on August 19, 2013, 02:57:15 AM

Quote from: redbeans2012 on August 19, 2013, 02:00:29 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:57:48 AM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 19, 2013, 01:48:34 AM

Are mining securities immune to bubbles? Since they are supposed to produce bitcoins, their value is proportional to the APR regardless of bitcoin price?

Drops from panics affected asicminer negatively as people sold their share so they could sell their coins.

It will be interesting to see if it works in the opposite direction as well.

Go back to the last BTC runup and compare to ASIC miner price. From what I remember it didn't effect it much.

Why would it? They're share price is based on how much BTC they can mine, which is invariant with respect to the network hashrate, assuming they can hold their 20%.

The only factor that could come in to play are new entrants into the space. I'm guessing people won't want to sit on their coins.

Ytterbium

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Quote from: redbeans2012 on August 19, 2013, 02:00:29 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:57:48 AM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 19, 2013, 01:48:34 AM

Are mining securities immune to bubbles? Since they are supposed to produce bitcoins, their value is proportional to the APR regardless of bitcoin price?

Drops from panics affected asicminer negatively as people sold their share so they could sell their coins.

It will be interesting to see if it works in the opposite direction as well.

Go back to the last BTC runup and compare to ASIC miner price. From what I remember it didn't effect it much.

Why would it? They're share price is based on how much BTC they can mine, which is invariant with respect to the network hashrate, assuming they can hold their 20%.

redbeans2012

hero member

Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:57:48 AM

Quote from: kingcrimson on August 19, 2013, 01:48:34 AM

Are mining securities immune to bubbles? Since they are supposed to produce bitcoins, their value is proportional to the APR regardless of bitcoin price?

Drops from panics affected asicminer negatively as people sold their share so they could sell their coins.

It will be interesting to see if it works in the opposite direction as well.

Go back to the last BTC runup and compare to ASIC miner price. From what I remember it didn't effect it much.

Bitcycle

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 19, 2013, 01:57:41 AM

Quote from: dhenson on August 19, 2013, 01:52:39 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:29:54 AM

Interesting. I was just talking to someone and I said it felt like another btc bubble was possible. Must be in the air.

Gox is down to 60k btc on the Ask side of the order book. The fact that Gox is so easy to get money into and hard to get USD out of will only make this bubble more aggressive than the last.

The gox price is total B.S. It's $99 on bitstamp, $99 on CampBX, and $97 on BTC-e. Yet, it's $119 on gox.

You could make massive amounts of money buying on bitstamp and selling on gox, but in order to do that you'd need to get your money from gox to bitstamp. And since you can only do $1k/mo it's just not something people do....

The other exchanges are going to go up to $110 or so, it's inevitable. They just take some time after the Gox price moves.

Bitcycle

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Quote from: kingcrimson on August 19, 2013, 01:48:34 AM

Are mining securities immune to bubbles? Since they are supposed to produce bitcoins, their value is proportional to the APR regardless of bitcoin price?

Drops from panics affected asicminer negatively as people sold their share so they could sell their coins.

It will be interesting to see if it works in the opposite direction as well.

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: dhenson on August 19, 2013, 01:52:39 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:29:54 AM

Interesting. I was just talking to someone and I said it felt like another btc bubble was possible. Must be in the air.

Gox is down to 60k btc on the Ask side of the order book. The fact that Gox is so easy to get money into and hard to get USD out of will only make this bubble more aggressive than the last.

The gox price is total B.S. It's $99 on bitstamp, $99 on CampBX, and $97 on BTC-e. Yet, it's $119 on gox.

You could make massive amounts of money buying on bitstamp and selling on gox, but in order to do that you'd need to get your money from gox to bitstamp. And since you can only do $1k/mo it's just not something people do....

damiano

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Activity: 1246

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103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.

Quote from: dhenson on August 19, 2013, 01:19:30 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 12:30:28 AM

While this thread argues definitions, someone's happy to buy up a lot of shares.

We're on the verge of another btc/usd price discovery bubble. A lot of new Walstreet type investors are coming to bitcoin and are going to look for securities to start dumping btc into.

This should be an interesting month.

I don't think so. People know tomorrow there is an update/announcement which will probably be positive. Also as september approaches its expected buying would increase

But who really knows

dhenson

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:29:54 AM

Interesting. I was just talking to someone and I said it felt like another btc bubble was possible. Must be in the air.

Gox is down to 60k btc on the Ask side of the order book. The fact that Gox is so easy to get money into and hard to get USD out of will only make this bubble more aggressive than the last.

You can argue all you want about what the true price of bitcoin is (Gox vs. Bitstamp), but the fact is that the large purchases are all happening on Gox. In the last 2 hours I've watched over a million dollars USD hit the book. $113 => $120/btc

We're going to look back on today and say that Germany was the new Cyprus. Bitcoin being officially recognized as a currency in a country where capital gains taxes are waived if you hold bitcoin for a year = huge public interest.

I think securities like Labcoin/Activemining/AM will benefit from the bubble, not only are they denominated in btc so any security price gains multiply by btc/usd gains but all of these new to bitcoin speculators will end up finding these securities and jumping on board.

kingcrimson

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Activity: 1025

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Are mining securities immune to bubbles? Since they are supposed to produce bitcoins, their value is proportional to the APR regardless of bitcoin price?

redbeans2012

hero member

Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 01:29:54 AM

Quote from: dhenson on August 19, 2013, 01:19:30 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 12:30:28 AM

While this thread argues definitions, someone's happy to buy up a lot of shares.

We're on the verge of another btc/usd price discovery bubble. A lot of new Walstreet type investors are coming to bitcoin and are going to look for securities to start dumping btc into.

This should be an interesting month.

Interesting. I was just talking to someone and I said it felt like another btc bubble was possible. Must be in the air.

Wonder how high this bubble will go. Better yet I wonder what drama will happen to pop it. There's always something. Undecided

Bitcycle

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: dhenson on August 19, 2013, 01:19:30 AM

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 12:30:28 AM

While this thread argues definitions, someone's happy to buy up a lot of shares.

We're on the verge of another btc/usd price discovery bubble. A lot of new Walstreet type investors are coming to bitcoin and are going to look for securities to start dumping btc into.

This should be an interesting month.

Interesting. I was just talking to someone and I said it felt like another btc bubble was possible. Must be in the air.

dhenson

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcycle on August 19, 2013, 12:30:28 AM

While this thread argues definitions, someone's happy to buy up a lot of shares.

We're on the verge of another btc/usd price discovery bubble. A lot of new Walstreet type investors are coming to bitcoin and are going to look for securities to start dumping btc into.

This should be an interesting month.

Bitcycle

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

While this thread argues definitions, someone's happy to buy up a lot of shares.

VolanicEruptor

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

My biggest mistake was saying 10%, I knew better, its obviously 1%..
typos aside, I will admit I'm mistaken on the main issue -- linear growth is based on a constant growth from the original amount, rather than growth that compounds month to month.. So your example of 100th/s per month would make sense for a linear example...

xchrisxsays

member

Activity: 98

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Quote from: physalis on August 18, 2013, 08:02:39 PM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on August 18, 2013, 07:57:17 PM

No...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/exponentialist/Linear_Vs_Exponential.htm

Look at that example, 10% gain every year for linear
Exponential is the increase of rate in growth.
How do you kids not know this?

It's 1% (not 10) from the initial 100, so it's a linear growth of 1 every year. Not 1% every year.

If something grows by 1% every year you have the second example, which is exponential. And that is what we are talking about here.

If you say "80% growth every month", that is exponential. Period.

It's increasing, and the rate at which it is increasing is also increasing. Something can grow at different rates of exponentiation.

physalis

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on August 18, 2013, 07:57:17 PM

No...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/exponentialist/Linear_Vs_Exponential.htm

Look at that example, 10% gain every year for linear
Exponential is the increase of rate in growth.
How do you kids not know this?

It's 1% (not 10) from the initial 100, so it's a linear growth of 1 every year. Not 1% every year.

If something grows by 1% every year you have the second example, which is exponential. And that is what we are talking about here.

If you say "80% growth every month", that is exponential. Period.

VolanicEruptor

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: physalis on August 18, 2013, 07:54:21 PM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on August 18, 2013, 07:50:00 PM

80% growth every month = linear
80% 1st month, 85% 2nd month, 90% 3rd month = exponential

No....

80% growth every month = exponential
80% 1st month, 85% 2nd month, 90% 3rd month = exponential at an increasing rate

No...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/exponentialist/Linear_Vs_Exponential.htm

Look at that example, 10% gain every year for linear
Exponential is the increase of rate in growth.
How do you kids not know this?

physalis

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on August 18, 2013, 07:50:00 PM

80% growth every month = linear
80% 1st month, 85% 2nd month, 90% 3rd month = exponential

No....

100TH growth every month = linear
80% growth every month = exponential
80% 1st month, 85% 2nd month, 90% 3rd month = exponential at an increasing rate

VolanicEruptor

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: physalis on August 18, 2013, 05:02:39 PM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on August 18, 2013, 04:07:30 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on August 18, 2013, 10:54:48 AM

Really looks like its not a hardcoded percent each month but instead exponentioal.

You are trying to say that it's not "linear growth" (steady growth) but rather exponential (expanding growth).
I halp u.

A "hardcoded percent each month" is not linear growth, it's already exponential growth.
I think he failed to realize that, and what he meant to say was that not only is it exponential growth, but it's exponential growth with an increasing rate.

that's like saying "not only do bears shit in woods, but they also crap"
An increasing rate is already what exponential growth is.
80% growth every month = linear
80% 1st month, 85% 2nd month, 90% 3rd month = exponential

AngelSky

hero member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 537

Quote from: boyohi on August 18, 2013, 04:15:27 PM

Quote from: E.Sam on August 18, 2013, 09:42:54 AM

Looks like we are missing 1 share.

1 share unaccounted for? That's price manipulation, I'm out! Selling my 100000000 shares @ market price.

Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 800. (Read 1079974 times)