[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 834.

burnside

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Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: TheSwede75 on August 02, 2013, 03:10:15 PM

Quote from: kokojie on August 02, 2013, 03:00:23 PM

Quote from: superduh on August 02, 2013, 02:46:27 PM

the 3 million shares should either not be tradeable on BTCT until a certain amount of time
OR the shares should be marked/colored in a way so that people know that they are buying the team's shares. this would also indicate for everyone to panic - heh

I agree, there's a reason there's a IPO "lock up" period for insiders in real world IPO. Especially when labcoin is going against the norm on btct (insider shares are not normally tradable)

I would like to point out that the 'Lock in' period for founders/insiders is one of those 'sometimes there is one, sometimes not'. I can also say that the Labcoin team didn't even consider this in the IPO process due to no one being interested in selling out shares in the project. That said, I will talk to Sam this weekend to see about a public solution that will allow share holders to feel secure in that the Labcoin founders and developers are not selling out.

Two ways this can be addressed on BTCT.

- The founders could turn on their public portfolios and publish a list of url's where the shares are held.
- (with Labcoin's consent) if they send us a list of accounts that are holding the shares we can lock the accounts and publicly state the number of shares effectively "in escrow".

Quote from: ShroomsKit on August 02, 2013, 11:46:17 AM

Quote from: szmarco on August 02, 2013, 11:31:22 AM

Swede & Burnside, We need a reasonable explanation about the 3m shares.

Maybe you didn't notice yet.
Let me explain it to you: they don't give a shit about what you think or do. I thought this was clear by now.
I'm so happy they cut me off from buying shares and didn't a give shit instead of working something.
These shares are one big clusterfuck and it won't end pretty.

IPO day was a greater than 24 hour work day for me. IPO work, then day job, then IPO work, then up all night answering hundreds of PM's and support requests.

Quote from: Lohoris on August 02, 2013, 05:48:14 PM

Quote from: LordMeowMeow on August 02, 2013, 12:34:57 PM

People bashing Labcoin have a right to their opinion of course but IMO, despite the launch which was a bit messy and not their fault

srsly?
rushed launch? their fault.
wrong timezone? their fault.
stupid share distribution? their fault.
server overloaded? btct fault, but if they didn't rush the IPO, this might not have happened.

I'll take the blame for the wrong timezone. That one was me. I get it, UTC from here on out.

Stupid share distribution? I think that was probably the only fair and equitable way to do it given how oversubscribed it was. Labcoin could have gone auction-style and they showed class and chose not to.

Cheers.

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 02, 2013, 04:10:36 PM

Read the BTCT terms of service. It's supposed to be a "entertainment purposes only" "virtual" exchange, technically speaking the owners of the company can just run off with all the BTC and abandon the company, whether or not they sell their shares.

As far as I know, that disclaimer is less effective than a lucky charm and has no legal value whatsoever.

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

Quote from: kokojie on August 02, 2013, 12:43:36 PM

BFL also looked most promising, professional and very good communication/forum presence, which brought in a LOT of money. But it's the Chinese companies that deliver.

technically it's AM that delivers, and this happens to be Chinese.
pretty a stretch to assume that one single (!!) case makes a trend.

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

Quote from: LordMeowMeow on August 02, 2013, 12:34:57 PM

People bashing Labcoin have a right to their opinion of course but IMO, despite the launch which was a bit messy and not their fault

srsly?
rushed launch? their fault.
wrong timezone? their fault.
stupid share distribution? their fault.
server overloaded? btct fault, but if they didn't rush the IPO, this might not have happened.

ajk

donator

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Lol thats funny

so you admit that you made money off of a company in which you were so convinced was a Pump and dump you also said you would never put money into ActM to which I can fully remember,

These guys put money into the company as well and as investors we all put money into the company because we believed that they will deliver

Ya they arent making money now they are TRYING TO DO THAT,

you are contradictory and sounds like you use your power to benefit Yourself, Im cool with that but im also going to call it out like it is

Edit

Hence why you also admit that you have no shares probably cause you sold and are trying to bring the price down to rebuy

ThickAsThieves

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Quote from: ajk on August 02, 2013, 05:05:27 PM

TAT you called pump and dump on Activemining are you sad that you didnt get any IPO shares and trying to bring down the price? I dont get how this is any different from any real world company CEO's dont hold private shares they are all listed on the market

I made money on ActM, and Labcoin, like many. Not because I have long-term faith, but because I knew the market would act irrationally. I have no holdings in either anymore.

This is different because these people are not paid a salary out of some current income stream, like Google. They are paid in a finite amount of shares. When those shares are not enough to justify doing the job, those people will quit. That time is now really. They'll have more than $1m in coins after selling off, and the odds are that's the most profit Labcoin will ever see for itself.

ajk

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The only way I would agree that its negative is that if they sell massive amounts of shares without letting us know having the shares listed publicly doesnt mean that they are doing shady things regardless of whether the option is there,

If they sell massive amounts of shares we will probably know who it is then you are correct till then its speculative and just trying to cause fear

ajk

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TAT you called pump and dump on Activemining are you sad that you didnt get any IPO shares and trying to bring down the price? I dont get how this is any different from any real world company CEO's dont hold private shares they are all listed on the market

Edit: TAT called pump and dump on ActM when the price of the shares were like .0007 you were only a little incorrect in that assumption considering the valuation of the company is like 8X that now

boyohi

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on August 02, 2013, 04:38:02 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 02, 2013, 04:27:35 PM

But seriously just chill. If you don't trust these guys with your money, then don't hold the shares.

It's not as simple as that. The greater issue here is the legitimacy of the market itself.

We care, so we kick and scream. I don't want issuers acting like scammers, or investors buying into scams, regardless of whether I hold shares.

It affects everyone. It affects the value of everything, and bitcoin's health in general.

+1 its important for a company to address our concern.

hammurabi

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on August 02, 2013, 04:38:02 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 02, 2013, 04:27:35 PM

But seriously just chill. If you don't trust these guys with your money, then don't hold the shares.

It's not as simple as that. The greater issue here is the legitimacy of the market itself.
We care, so we kick and scream. I don't want issuers acting like scammers, or investors buying into scams, regardless of whether I hold shares.
It affects everyone. It affects the value of everything, and bitcoin's health in general.

That statement should be quoted, so I quote it right away!

One can wonder, why labcoin forgot to put that into their prospectus, while for example btcgarden didn't.
Answers can be so much different depending on reasons behind it.
For example the idea might not crossed their mind at all or
they didn't want to put any constraint on themselves to feel free.

In contrast one can also wonder why, at the same time, btcgarden didn't forgot to put such a clause in their prospectus.
Have a thought of abandoning their company crossed their minds?!

chriswilmer

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on August 02, 2013, 04:38:02 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 02, 2013, 04:27:35 PM

But seriously just chill. If you don't trust these guys with your money, then don't hold the shares.

It's not as simple as that. The greater issue here is the legitimacy of the market itself.

We care, so we kick and scream. I don't want issuers acting like scammers, or investors buying into scams, regardless of whether I hold shares.

It affects everyone. It affects the value of everything, and bitcoin's health in general.

+1

ThickAsThieves

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Activity: 518

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Quote from: Ytterbium on August 02, 2013, 04:27:35 PM

But seriously just chill. If you don't trust these guys with your money, then don't hold the shares.

It's not as simple as that. The greater issue here is the legitimacy of the market itself.

We care, so we kick and scream. I don't want issuers acting like scammers, or investors buying into scams, regardless of whether I hold shares.

It affects everyone. It affects the value of everything, and bitcoin's health in general.

canth

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Activity: 1442

Merit: 1001

Quote from: dexX7 on August 02, 2013, 04:17:33 PM

I advise everyone to get not too crazy. I mean, you gave and trusted them 7000 Bitcoin and now there is a trust issue with outstanding shares? Don't get me wrong, I'm pro transparency and I assume people in the Bitcoinland are those with the most trust issues for very good reasons and this should be kept in mind and honored by every asset issuer.

Here is some brainstorming:

If you really want to expose company held shares to the public but don't want to expose your personal portfolios, transfer them to parking accounts which are only for company shares. Those portfolios could be made visible to the public and your private privacy remains untouched.

+1 - this makes the most sense. I trust the LabCoin founders as of right now - they've invested enough that it wouldn't make any sense to pull out at the time being.

However, if we're completely candid there may be a time when things aren't so rosy and the stock price is high enough that members of the team could sell out massively (over time). In the 'real world' this would be prevented by insider trading rules and the required disclosure of sales by any officers of the company.

Putting the shares in a holding account or otherwise sharing this information with shareholders will maintain confidence that LabCoin employees and owners are doing what is best for shareholders.

Ytterbium

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Quote from: twentyseventy on August 02, 2013, 03:34:24 PM

Come on, TAT. Plenty of companies have founders that are able to sell their shares. Larry and Sergey didn't cash everything out when Google IPO'd, did te

Labcoin has been posting on the Mining forum for a while and they've got a strong incentive to make more money off of the appreciation of their shares than to sell now.

While this is true, insiders typically can't sell for the first six months after their IPO.

IMO people are panicking over nothing. Nothing prevents them from taking all the money invested and living large without worrying about the investors at all, since BTCT securities are "for entertainment purposes only" and not legally binding. The fact that they didn't just let people bid as high as they wanted and sold shares at the original IPO price, rather then taking twice as much, indicates they're not just in it for a quick buck.

If you'er not comfortable trusting these guys with your money, then sell your shares. I don't understand what makes people both paranoid about the founders and at the same unwilling to sell the shares - instead coming on the forum and venting their frustration and cognitive dissonance on the boards.

Unless they're trying to get other people to sell in order to lower the price and buy more, of course Grin

BTCT enables options trading, but so far no one has offered to sell any put options. Theoretically you could hedge your ownership by writing a call option as well.

But seriously just chill. If you don't trust these guys with your money, then don't hold the shares.

dexX7

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I advise everyone to get not too crazy. I mean, you gave and trusted them 7000 Bitcoin and now there is a trust issue with outstanding shares? Don't get me wrong, I'm pro transparency and I assume people in the Bitcoinland are those with the most trust issues for very good reasons and this should be kept in mind and honored by every asset issuer.

Here is some brainstorming:

If you really want to expose company held shares to the public but don't want to expose your personal portfolios, transfer them to parking accounts which are only for company shares. Those portfolios could be made visible to the public and your private privacy remains untouched.

Ytterbium

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on August 02, 2013, 02:20:40 PM

Bingo! The shares should not have been rendered. What incentive does the company have to work at all if they can just sell all their own shares?

Salary? There's no rule that requires founders to keep all their shares in the real world, except for the first six months or so.

Anyway, this thread is full of people who obviously don't know anything about IC production whining on and on about tiny, nit-picky issues. Read the BTCT terms of service. It's supposed to be a "entertainment purposes only" "virtual" exchange, technically speaking the owners of the company can just run off with all the BTC and abandon the company, whether or not they sell their shares.

If you don't trust them, then you shouldn't hold their shares, period.

Quote from: TheSwede75 on August 02, 2013, 02:42:41 PM

UPDATE:

A little off topic-but it may still interest investors that the Labcoin team has already received the first requests from mining operations/individuals for bulk purchases of the 1st Gen 130nm chips. As first-run is ordered and we get closer to mass production of chips we will update share holders on the volume of placed bulk-orders as they are verified.

Interesting. Hopefully we'll get more details about that: order size, cost, payment date, delivery date etc. On the other hand you don't want to give out information that could give competitors a better advantage.

kleeck

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https://karatcoin.co

Come chat about Labcoin on IRC.

http://webchat.freenode.net/ is a good web-based IRC solution.
Channel: Labcoin
User your Bitcointalk name so we know who's who!

TheSwede75

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Quote from: twentyseventy on August 02, 2013, 03:34:24 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on August 02, 2013, 02:20:40 PM

Bingo! The shares should not have been rendered. What incentive does the company have to work at all if they can just sell all their own shares?

Come on, TAT. Plenty of companies have founders that are able to sell their shares. Larry and Sergey didn't cash everything out when Google IPO'd, did te

Labcoin has been posting on the Mining forum for a while and they've got a strong incentive to make more money off of the appreciation of their shares than to sell now.

Though I don't think the Labcoin team are quite comparing themselves to Google ( Yet Tongue

) this is the way they see it. That said, I will talk to Sam about some form of solution that allows for more transparency when it comes to the Founder shares.

Moebius327

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Quote from: TheSwede75 on August 02, 2013, 03:00:59 PM

Update:

I will talk to the Labcoin team about some form of 'public' solution to this question.

Quote from: hammurabi on August 02, 2013, 02:58:57 PM

Quote

The other 6,000,000 shares are held by investors of BTCSEA CO.,Ltd ,which is not available and limited to open in next 2 years. Pass Through stocks based on these shares are prohibited in next 2 years either.Public shareholders have no such a restriction.

Quote

You are definitely correct when it comes to BTCSEA CO. At this time I can personally just communicate that the team is definitely not planning on selling any shares and are 100% committed to the future of the project.

Everything is fine, except for the fact that in current shape of things they can just abandon the ship at any time they want.
I think it is important to (either or both):
- clarify that no founder shares will be sold till some date in the future;
- make founder's accounts public so anybody can check number of labcoin shares they hold.

Maybe you can make Read-Only API Keys publicly available so everyone can see your portfolio and prove you won't selll?

boyohi

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Quote from: bobboooiie on August 02, 2013, 03:26:56 PM

Quote

In other words, you can sell whenever you want and no one will know.

Surely, burnside would. But still there should be lock on them or at least mentioned in the contract that they cannot sell them

Yes. Updating the contract and putting a lock on those 3million shares will be good. If they have no intention to sell, doing this shouldn't be a problem.

Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining) - page 834. (Read 1079974 times)