If nobody else is interested in Bg5, my second preference is Nc3.
That being the case, we have four votes for Nc3 (Timelord2067, jjacob, languagehasmeaning, and myself) and two for b3 (actmyname and Taras). Ordinarily I would wait to see if Taras is convinced to change his vote, but at this point it doesn't make any difference. Looks like we're going with 10. Nc3. 
Topic: Lets play a game of Chess - page 80. (Read 160681 times)
I would consider b3 to later fianchetto the bishop. You have to plan for the future, and if you are playing Bf4, you do not have a target. The knight on c3 may control the center, but then what? Is that its best square? If black wanted to (though unlikely) he could at any point play b4 and kick the knight back and stack up on the c file with rook and queen to push c4.
b3 prevents c4 and also gives the bishop a good square aimed at the king. Then, the rook on a1 can move to c1 and you can target the weak c5 pawn.
b3 prevents c4 and also gives the bishop a good square aimed at the king. Then, the rook on a1 can move to c1 and you can target the weak c5 pawn.
I would also be interested in getting the rook at a1 to c1, but I won't support c2.
Developing pieces is important now. If nobody else is interested in Bg5, my second preference is Nc3.
Ne4 creates a weak pawn on e4, which is attacked by the black bishop.
So? I'd almost be willing to sacrifice a pawn to get a position like this. But e-pawn is safe. It can be guarded by the bishop and remaining knight and then the f-pawn if absolutely necessary (though I'd rather keep the f-pawn in front of the king).It also blocks in your fianchetted bishop.
Um, the whole purpose of a finachettoed bishop is the defend the central squares from a distance. What is the bishop for if not to guard the pawn?After Rd1... what are you attacking?
Nothing! You don't attack during the opening! We're controlling the d-file to shut down Black's options. Only once we get the other bishop out and both rooks together do we attack.Black can easily trade off the rook with Qc7 Rd8 and then move the knight.
Good. Black wastes valuable time dealing with the threat. Meanwhile, we finish development and mount a real attack.This is pretty convincing, actually. Since 10. Nc3 b4? is probably not going to happen, is Bf3 a reasonable move for black? Should we explore e4 if it is, or if it becomes reasonable later on?
No, Bxf3 is a mistake for Black. He trades away his strong bishop. Naturally, we should do nothing to prevent this.Also, what about Kg4 ?
Not sure if trolling or you don't understand standard algebraic notation.Would it be a waste to play h3 some time?
Some time. But not now.Normally I would like a set up with our pawns on e4 and f4 (after we move our knight) a rook on c1 and a bishop on e3. We could then decide between applying pressure on c5 and a possible king side attack. The problem is that e4 would weaken both our d3 pawn and the d4 square. Is the fact that blacks knight is on d7 not c6 (controlling d4) enough to justify such a plan?
No. We shouldn't push our kingside pawns after castling kingside unless necessary, eg, to create an escape square for the king. 
I think Nc3 is a bad idea, because what if black plays b4?
Um, we have a better chance of winning? That's what usually happens when the opponent plays bad moves!We'd be stuck with 11. Nb1, which is a waste of time,
Boris Spassky would want a word with you. 
After 12. Nbd2, Black's queenside is extremely weak.Nd1, which is arguably counter-intuitive,
But allows the very strong 12. Ne3.or Ne4, which is an instant trade-off, also putting two of our pawns on one file.
This is the best refutation. It's a decent trade for White; that Black knight is quite annoying. But more importantly, it opens the d-file at a moment when White can immediately take full advantage of it with the rook and queen. This far outweighs the weakness of doubled pawns, which is generally overrated by novices. White is clearly better after 10. Nc3 b4? 11. Ne4 Nxe4 12. dxe4 ... 13. Rd1.I like 10. Nc3 also but for slightly different reasons.
I don't know know where our c1 bishop belongs yet, so I think its best to wait a move or two to keep our options open. For the reasons you stated I really doubt black will play 10.... b4. However if he plays 10.... Be7 or 10....Bd6 preparing to castle we can attack with 11. a4 trying to create some weaknesses to target. The knight on c3 will help create pressure. Our bishops best square will depend on how black responds.
Normally I would like a set up with our pawns on e4 and f4 (after we move our knight) a rook on c1 and a bishop on e3. We could then decide between applying pressure on c5 and a possible king side attack. The problem is that e4 would weaken both our d3 pawn and the d4 square. Is the fact that blacks knight is on d7 not c6 (controlling d4) enough to justify such a plan?
or Ne4, which is an instant trade-off, also putting two of our pawns on one file.
This is the best refutation. It's a decent trade for White; that Black knight is quite annoying. But more importantly, it opens the d-file at a moment when White can immediately take full advantage of it with the rook and queen. This far outweighs the weakness of doubled pawns, which is generally overrated by novices. White is clearly better after 10. Nc3 b4? 11. Ne4 Nxe4 12. dxe4 ... 13. Rd1.Also, what about Kg4 ? Would it be a waste to play h3 some time? Or is that a mistake, opening up the fort around the king, like in Gates v. Carlsen?
If you can't tell I am definitely an amateur. But also an enthusiast
-snip-
(on Ne4)
This is the best refutation. It's a decent trade for White; that Black knight is quite annoying. But more importantly, it opens the d-file at a moment when White can immediately take full advantage of it with the rook and queen. This far outweighs the weakness of doubled pawns, which is generally overrated by novices. White is clearly better after 10. Nc3 b4? 11. Ne4 Nxe4 12. dxe4 ... 13. Rd1.
(on Ne4)
This is the best refutation. It's a decent trade for White; that Black knight is quite annoying. But more importantly, it opens the d-file at a moment when White can immediately take full advantage of it with the rook and queen. This far outweighs the weakness of doubled pawns, which is generally overrated by novices. White is clearly better after 10. Nc3 b4? 11. Ne4 Nxe4 12. dxe4 ... 13. Rd1.
Ne4 creates a weak pawn on e4, which is attacked by the black bishop. It also blocks in your fianchetted bishop. After Rd1... what are you attacking? Black can easily trade off the rook with Qc7 Rd8 and then move the knight.
Black could even play Be7, O-O, Qc3, Rd8
Black doesn't have to play b4 immediately anyway. The knight on c3 is not threatening anything. d4 would be a pointless push because black doesn't need to take with the c pawn. Black could even play Rc8 after d4.
Chess against me
I think Nc3 is a bad idea, because what if black plays b4?
Um, we have a better chance of winning? That's what usually happens when the opponent plays bad moves!We'd be stuck with 11. Nb1, which is a waste of time,
Boris Spassky would want a word with you. After 12. Nbd2, Black's queenside is extremely weak.Nd1, which is arguably counter-intuitive,
But allows the very strong 12. Ne3.or Ne4, which is an instant trade-off, also putting two of our pawns on one file.
This is the best refutation. It's a decent trade for White; that Black knight is quite annoying. But more importantly, it opens the d-file at a moment when White can immediately take full advantage of it with the rook and queen. This far outweighs the weakness of doubled pawns, which is generally overrated by novices. White is clearly better after 10. Nc3 b4? 11. Ne4 Nxe4 12. dxe4 ... 13. Rd1.
I think Nc3 is a bad idea, because what if black plays b4? We'd be stuck with 11. Nb1, which is a waste of time, Nd1, which is arguably counter-intuitive, or Ne4, which is an instant trade-off, also putting two of our pawns on one file. Right now, b3 is the best move I can think of. It may not be the one that wins, but I just don't want to see Nc3 right now and honestly think it's a better idea.
10. b3
10. b3
I would consider b3
I wouldn't. 10. b3 is bad enough to merit a question mark, in my opinion. 8. d3 committed us to developing the queen's bishop to the kingside. We can't afford to waste a tempo on a queenside fianchetto. We need to get our rooks together as soon as possible, and that means developing the knight and bishop in two moves, not three. We can then break on the d-file and begin our attack. In games between masters and amateurs, extremely indecisive moves like 10. b3? are exactly the sort of mistake that the master will capitalise on. That's a no-brainer. Nc3 controls the centre, puts pressure on b5, and defends the e-pawn. Nd2 achieves nothing, and is actively harmful as it blocks the retreat of the easily-attacked dark-squared bishop. The bishop's vulnerability is one of my reasons for wanting to play Nc3 first: it keeps Black's knight away from d5, making Bf4 or Be3 safer (we don't want to trade our bishop for a knight at this stage).
I would consider b3 to later fianchetto the bishop. You have to plan for the future, and if you are playing Bf4, you do not have a target. The knight on c3 may control the center, but then what? Is that its best square? If black wanted to (though unlikely) he could at any point play b4 and kick the knight back and stack up on the c file with rook and queen to push c4.
b3 prevents c4 and also gives the bishop a good square aimed at the king. Then, the rook on a1 can move to c1 and you can target the weak c5 pawn.
Nc3 vs. Nd2
That's a no-brainer. Nc3 controls the centre, puts pressure on b5, and defends the e-pawn. Nd2 achieves nothing, and is actively harmful as it blocks the retreat of the easily-attacked dark-squared bishop. The bishop's vulnerability is one of my reasons for wanting to play Nc3 first: it keeps Black's knight away from d5, making Bf4 or Be3 safer (we don't want to trade our bishop for a knight at this stage).
I would play Bg5 right now.
Going forward, would like to evaluate Nc3 vs. Nd2 and take a decision.
Going forward, would like to evaluate Nc3 vs. Nd2 and take a decision.
I like to play chess but it's time consuming take long time to finish like cricket.
10. Nc3 please
Agreed. 10. Nc3 is strongest. 
10. Nc3 please
Oops, I couldn't contain myself and made more charts.
Vote summary
The dotted line here is 2 times the second most popular option.
Game statistics
I will be measuring three health indices of the BitcoinTalk team: Confidence, Synchrony and Integrity.
Vote summary
The dotted line here is 2 times the second most popular option.
Game statistics
I will be measuring three health indices of the BitcoinTalk team: Confidence, Synchrony and Integrity.
 | The Confidence Index is the percentage of votes that went to the winning move. If it is high, then that move was obvious or planned. If it is low, the community was unsure or divided about how to proceed. The Synchrony Index is 1/n, where n is the number of options that received a vote. Low synchrony means many options received votes, and high synchrony means that everyone went for the same few options. Low synchrony is not usually a bad thing, especially if confidence is high. The Integrity Index is a measure of how seriously the game is being taken. It is the percentage of how many votes cast were for serious moves. Absurd and invalid votes, even after being revised or removed, are included in this index. If integrity is any lower than 50%, BitcoinTalk is likely to lose without moderation. If the Confidence and Synchrony indices are equal, all options had the same number of votes. If they are both at 100%, only one option received any votes. If all three indices are at 100%, and many people voted, well that's a perfect world. If Confidence is extremely high and Integrity is extremely low, we're being trolled. I will probably modify the Synchrony algorithm later to be more readable on the chart. Honestly I just like playing with graphs.  |
I like the graphs!
Your move bitcointalk
1. Nf3 d5
2. c4 e6
3. g3 Nf6
4. Bg2 dxc4
5. Qa4+ Nbd7
6. Qxc4 c5
7. 0-0 a6
8. d3 b5
9. Qc2 Bb7
Oops, I couldn't contain myself and made more charts.
Vote summary
The dotted line here is 2 times the second most popular option.
Game statistics
I will be measuring three health indices of the BitcoinTalk team: Confidence, Synchrony and Integrity.
Vote summary
The dotted line here is 2 times the second most popular option.
Game statistics
I will be measuring three health indices of the BitcoinTalk team: Confidence, Synchrony and Integrity.
| The Confidence Index is the percentage of votes that went to the winning move. If it is high, then that move was obvious or planned. If it is low, the community was unsure or divided about how to proceed. The Synchrony Index is 1/n, where n is the number of options that received a vote. Low synchrony means many options received votes, and high synchrony means that everyone went for the same few options. Low synchrony is not usually a bad thing, especially if confidence is high. The Integrity Index is a measure of how seriously the game is being taken. It is the percentage of how many votes cast were for serious moves. Absurd and invalid votes, even after being revised or removed, are included in this index. If integrity is any lower than 50%, BitcoinTalk is likely to lose without moderation. If the Confidence and Synchrony indices are equal, all options had the same number of votes. If they are both at 100%, only one option received any votes. If all three indices are at 100%, and many people voted, well that's a perfect world. If Confidence is extremely high and Integrity is extremely low, we're being trolled. I will probably modify the Synchrony algorithm later to be more readable on the chart. Honestly I just like playing with graphs. |
Hey thanks for that - Nice to know - looking forward to the next graph.
*edit* I'm going bonkers... I think I was misreading Qh4 and Qf4 earlier on. Apologies to all.
*edit* I'm going bonkers... I think I was misreading Qh4 and Qf4 earlier on. Apologies to all.
BitcoinTalk is 62% certain that Qc2 is the correct move.
Who "voted" for which please?
*edit* and why place a red line at 90% ?
2nd edit languagehasmeaning and abacus were both leaning toward Qf4 if I read them correctly which is why I asked.
Here's how I interpreted the results:
Qc2
neochiny
jjacob
actmyname
Taras
languagehasmeaning
Qh4
Foxpup
abacus
Qf4
Timelord2067
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