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Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 34. (Read 13806 times)

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
March 18, 2022, 10:21:30 AM
Lightning network ecosystem is growing organically:

The Bitcoin Lightning Network ecosystem is growing

Quote

The public capacity on the Bitcoin Lightning Network grew exponentially from April through September in 2021, with an annualized growth rate of more than 700 percent. Since, public capacity growth has been more subdued, only growing at a 48 percent annualized rate since the end of September.




An interesting analysis.

Of course a lot of LN growth has been driven by exchanges node, but there’s more outside.

Registration to arcane is free, just use a trowaway mail.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
March 09, 2022, 05:47:16 PM
Giacomo Zucco had a talk about LN and Privacy at Lightning Hack Day, INSTANBUL 2022


LIGHTNING PRIVACY – LIGHTNING HACK DAY, INSTANBUL 2022



Very interesting content wittingly exposed, as always with Giacomo Zucco.




legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
February 28, 2022, 12:25:18 PM
Someone built a KYC free exchange on the Lighting network:

Everyone says we need easy and cheap markets for non-KYC BTC... So I have done this.

Quote

**TL;TR:** Bitcoin is slowly being captured by the tight grip on the fiat on/off ramps. We need convenient, fast and cheap markets for non-KYC bitcoin. I have worked my ass off for two months to create an easy and private P2P exchange that uses solely lightning hold invoices. It is called RoboSats and I believe it can potentially rival centralized exchanges in ease of use and fees, while being totally private and having a close to custody-less pipeline. You can use it from your smartphone right now: it is straightforward to use even for the very noob. The platform is fully open source and will always be. It works quite well, but it is experimental: read the info and trade only small amounts. Open it now with Tor Browser: [Onion Link](http://robosats6tkf3eva7x2voqso3a5wcorsnw34jveyxfqi2fu7oyheasid.onion/)

## Background

One of the main threats for the Bitcoin network and its users is the ability of a few entities to control the fiat on/off-ramps. The tight grip on them allows for censorship and surveillance by linking funds with identities and strips the freedom away from Bitcoin. While there exists several peer-to-peer alternatives to centralized exchanges, these are rather technical, slow and costly. Most users still prefer the convenience of a centralized exchange at the cost of their privacy and a difficult initial setup (submit passport, selfie-video, etc). Things do not look too well for a truly free Bitcoin ecosystem.

However, there are opportunities too. Using the Lightning Network it might very well be possible to create a very user friendly, safe, fast and cheap peer-to-peer market. By using hold invoices as fidelity bonds and trade escrows, trust/security can be maximized. It will never be as secure as an on-chain escrow. But one can dream that an open p2p market like that could rival the ease of use of centralized exchanges and have very low fees too; yet, with minimal privacy invasion and a close to custody-less trade pipeline.

<…>

It looks like a BISQ like exchange over LN, with added privacy then.
hero member
Activity: 1722
Merit: 801
February 23, 2022, 09:45:05 AM
I wouldn’t have expected such a growth, 0.1 BTC on average looks like a lot.
Nice to see.
Total transactions increase as well as total value transacted in Lightning Network. It's good together with growth of channels, network capacity, channel capacity in Lightning network charts and with the higher demand on Bitcoin, Lightning Network will be sure one of best solutions for Bitcoin users now.

They can use other alternatives like Segwit address, Taproot but Lightning Network saves their transaction cost a lot.

Learn about Lightning Network with Mastering the Lightning Network: A Second Layer Blockchain Protocol for Instant Bitcoin Payments 1st Edition
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
February 23, 2022, 09:04:23 AM
Paolo Ardoino seems quite happy with LN usage at Bitfinex.



I wouldn’t have expected such a growth, 0.1 BTC on average looks like a lot.
Nice to see.

hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 5834
not your keys, not your coins!
February 20, 2022, 08:16:01 AM

These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!

i already have an open channel with Rath_
i could contribute 0.005 - but can also provide contributions from 0.01 if necessary Smiley
Sounds good - let's see who else would be interested! Dual-funded or even circular channels are pretty useful, I think.
legendary
Activity: 3304
Merit: 8633
Crypto Swap Exchange
February 20, 2022, 08:06:24 AM

These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!

i already have an open channel with Rath_
i could contribute 0.005 - but can also provide contributions from 0.01 if necessary Smiley
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 5834
not your keys, not your coins!
February 20, 2022, 06:07:35 AM
i support the lightning network since a few days with my own node now too and if there are interested guys i would open a channel with some of you Grin


https://twitter.com/cryptocygan/status/1492930549861826563
These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!
legendary
Activity: 3304
Merit: 8633
Crypto Swap Exchange
February 20, 2022, 03:40:01 AM
i support the lightning network since a few days with my own node now too and if there are interested guys i would open a channel with some of you Grin


https://twitter.com/cryptocygan/status/1492930549861826563
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
February 14, 2022, 06:55:16 AM
When I listen to Jack Mallers I always feel that thrill of being alive in the exact moment when a new financial sistem it is being bootstrapped and being put in place for the whole human kind:


Quote

WBD460 - Orange Pilling the IMF with @jackmallers. We discuss:
- Conversations with Bezos and Facebook
- The famous peanut story
- How #Bitcoin BTC  levels the playing field
- The global implications of Lightning
whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/orange…




90 minutes worth listening to.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 3132
February 08, 2022, 12:49:56 PM
As I don't want to help you derail another topic, I replied in the Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain thread. If you are interested in continuing the discussion, please reply there.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
February 08, 2022, 10:20:53 AM
1. people can use invoice uri that contain ip or tor addresses.
your reliance on your wallet having a dns bootstrap is a privacy concern.. for YOU
the 'convenience' of not needing ip/tor addresses in an invoice. is then the privacy loss by preferring a network map


2. you think the only messages involved in a LN are
node announce
channel_update
update_add_htlc
update_fulfill_htlc,
update_fail_htlc,
update_fail_malformed_htlc
commitment_signed
plus a few others.
YOU think there are only under a dozen message types and YOU think all payment messages involve "update_add_htlc"

in other topics i showed you there are like 500 different message types(spec compliant) and upto 65,000 custom, and each of those types can be used for a multitude of things
even simple messages like ping and pong can add payloads of different information, well outside of your "update_add_htlc" mantra where you think everything is done inside

3. maybe the many ways many wallets do it, is not spec compliant to YOUR wallet. but your wallet after all is not interested in privacy, hense why you think your wallet is limited to only a dozen message types.

4. when i go private it appears to you as "trampolining" and your map becomes broke because you cant see C. thus you if you were Z could not arrange a payment to A via your DNS bootstrap.

but other people with other wallets could. because they dont just create a route based on some bootstrap map, but by actually talking to peers

EG W does not tell X about C because WC is private. so X cant tell y and Y cannot tell Z .
so you as Z will just see Z-Y-X-W but not -C..
yet actually talking outside of the 'channel_announce' and 'channel_update' you can actually walk a path using other methods.


5. funny part is. if you really wanted to do some positive real feature promoting of LN. you could realise that the lack of a consensus means that LN does not need default, forced, public compliance. but hey, you prefer the forced default public compliance that has a 70% fail rate.. strange
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 3132
February 08, 2022, 10:02:57 AM
if you speak to rath_ he will tell you his LN wallet does not have privacy, his wallet announces his channel balance changes to a central DNS/explorer/whole network so that everyone can see whats available to make routes.

Oh, wow. Slow down for a moment. I have never said that.

You should take a look at at least one paper describing the probing attack on the Lightning Network.

LN nodes gossip about channels available for routing and their total capacities. To issue a (multi-hop) payment, the sender creates a route based on its local knowledge of the graph. As local channel balances are not public, payments often fail due to insufficient balance at an intermediary hop. In that case, the payment is attempted along multiple routes until it succeeds. This constitutes a privacy-efficiency tradeoff: hidden balances improve privacy but hinder routing efficiency.

As for the "central DNS", you are ignoring the fact that nodes use DNS bootstrapping (just like Bitcoin nodes) to discover peers. Lightning nodes talk not only to their channel partners but also to other participants of the network. You fail to acknowledge that even though you can easily check it on your own by either setting up your own node or running a non-custodial wallet like Electrum.

oh and rath_ thinks even if i set my C to be private, he can still see
A-B-C-D-E
       \
       W-X-Y-Z

all because HIS wallet defaults and forces his channels to be public so he does not understand that privacy was and is possible.

Yes, I could still see WX, XY and YZ channels as you assume that they are public.

and instead can build routes without testing them. the flaw of this convenience of saving a few hundred bytes of data. is ofcourse lack of privacy, and also the reason he had a 70% fail rate for payments because he wasnt testing routes before trying to push payments

There is no other way to test if the payment will go through other than to actually send it. You fail to prove which "private message" in our opinion is actually supposed to do that. You will very likely come up with another non spec-complaint message.

For example, we suspect which edges might be able to forward a payment because their capacity seems big enough. But we can’t be certain unless we try it out or ask the channel owners directly. Even if we were able to ask the channel owners directly, their balance might change by the time we have asked others, computed a path, constructed an onion and send it along
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
February 08, 2022, 09:02:27 AM
Can Chainalysis trace every transaction in Lightning? How can users add more privacy?

if you speak to rath_ he will tell you his LN wallet does not have privacy, his wallet announces his channel balance changes to a central DNS/explorer/whole network so that everyone can see whats available to make routes.

where analysis can then watch the movements as the updates happen

LN originally worked differently using private messages. (still does if you avoid rath_'s prefered wallet)
here is rath highlighting how he views his wallets function of everything is public

The Lightning Network solves this problem by implementing a gossip protocol. Gossip protocols are typical for peer-to-peer (P2P) networks and allow nodes to share information with the whole network with just a few direct connections to peers. Lightning nodes open encrypted peer-to-peer connections to each other and share (gossip) information that they have received from other peers. As soon as a node wants to share some information, for example, about a newly created channel, it sends a message to all its peers. Upon receiving a message, a node decides if the received message was novel and, if so, forwards the information to its peers. In this way, if the peer-to-peer network is well connected, all new information that is necessary for the operation of the network will eventually be propagated to all other peers.

By default, Lightning channels are public and they advertise themselves through "channel_announcement" and "channel_update".

You can use Lightning explorers like amboss.space or 1ml.com to see information extracted from the gossip protocol for each public node. Here's my node. You can see all of my channels, including their fee settings which are necessary to construct the routing path. Private channels are generally not used for payment routing as the invoice would have to include routing hints.

Even a lightwallet like Electrum forces their users to wait for the local graph to sync through the gossip protocol if they don't want to be able to connect only to trampoline nodes, which can take care of the path calculation for the user if they are willing to compromise their privacy.

note.
other LN wallets(not like rath_'s) do not have channels set to public by default, do not send announcements to the whole network. and it only sends it to the 'tree' of peered nodes. if they choose to.

notice the use of words "forces users" . "public by default" .. nasty stuff

the way LN was "promised2 was privacy where for instance

Quote

imagine i was carol(C)..
A>B>Cmy node1                             Zmy node3

                            my node3  C>D>E

(A)lice can pay (Z)oe even though A only has a network map tree of B>C (where i (via node1) decided NOT to respond about my node3 paths of W>X>Y>Z)

yep i dont actually need to have a tree linking all channels announced publicly, via a peer pass the parcel of linked peer channels from start to end. nor need to announce to some DNS or explorer site

yep Z can all pay A. even if the Z does not have a network map tree of ABCWXYZ. and only has a map of ZYXWC

but in rath_'s view his wallet broadcasts everything meaning if he had the same set up.

the whole network would see

A-B-C-D-E
       \
       W-X-Y-Z

oh and rath_ thinks even if i set my C to be private, he can still see
A-B-C-D-E
       \
       W-X-Y-Z

all because HIS wallet defaults and forces his channels to be public so he does not understand that privacy was and is possible.

the other thing is  the 'convenience' of 'all public' (default, forced) means he does not need to send private messages to test routes. and instead can build routes without testing them. the flaw of this convenience of saving a few hundred bytes of data. is ofcourse lack of privacy, and also the reason he had a 70% fail rate for payments because he wasnt testing routes before trying to push payments
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!
February 08, 2022, 08:44:01 AM
Works like a charm, too...

Hmm.  I wonder what's gonna happen now?

Wait, I know!  I am gonna figure out where the Cash App nodes are and make some channels...  Bigguns.  With big ass chewy fees so they can pay me back a little for the corn I've bought from them...

Anyone knows what the CASH APP nodes are?  



Thinking this through... I could see this channel getting drained of 0.16BTC really fast.  So all I gotta figure out is how much do the fees need to be justify having to reload them over and over...  Or even drop them and create new ones.  Hmm.  HMM!
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
January 11, 2022, 07:10:49 AM
Cash App integrated Lightning Network on their platform:



Apparently Block’s mobile app has just been updated and now users are anabled to use LN to perform BTC payments more quickly and cheaper payments.

Jack Dorsey has been a long time fan of LN, and Block  announced the intention to integrate LN months ago: we are finally seeing some results in production!
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 20, 2021, 01:59:25 AM
WasabiWallet is giving a grant for research teams to design a privacy-focused Lightning Network wallet, https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/1-btc-ln-privacy-grant/

It’s a very good counter-defense against Chainalysis’ attempts of breaking privacy, and using Lightning for surveillance. The grant isn’t very big, but it’s a good way to start in my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 16, 2021, 06:09:49 AM

Quote
Today, Chainalysis announced product support for the Lightning Network, a layer 2 protocol built on the Bitcoin blockchain that allows faster, cheaper transactions. With Lightning, small, recurring transactions that wouldn’t be economical to carry out on the blockchain due to transaction fees become feasible, enabling new commercial use cases for Bitcoin.
https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/lightning-network-support/


Quote

Soon, Chainalysis will support Lightning Network transaction monitoring in KYT! Staying compliant with regulations will be vital as the second layer protocol is adopted and we’re excited to be the first in the industry to offer this support.


https://twitter.com/chainalysis/status/1469317238893289475

It’s not “support” for the Lightning Network. It’s actually surveillance, pretending to help Lightning “stay compliant with regulations”. Although, Lightning users can thank Chainalysis for the liquidity. Cool

Can Chainalysis trace every transaction in Lightning? How can users add more privacy?
legendary
Activity: 3304
Merit: 8633
Crypto Swap Exchange
December 10, 2021, 02:57:01 PM

Quote
Today, Chainalysis announced product support for the Lightning Network, a layer 2 protocol built on the Bitcoin blockchain that allows faster, cheaper transactions. With Lightning, small, recurring transactions that wouldn’t be economical to carry out on the blockchain due to transaction fees become feasible, enabling new commercial use cases for Bitcoin.
https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/lightning-network-support/
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
December 06, 2021, 03:09:49 PM
Coindesk released  a new podcast about Lightning network: Exploring Bitcoin’s Lightning Network

Quote
The Lightning Network is arguably the most anticipated scaling solution for Bitcoin to date. Why isn’t everyone using it?

Quote
The Lightning Network is arguably the most anticipated scaling solution for Bitcoin to date. Why isn’t everyone using it?
“Speaking of Bitcoin” hosts Adam B. Levine, Andreas M. Antonopoulos and Stephanie Murphy are joined by Rene Pickhardt, Bitcoin and Lightning Network Developer. The four lead a conversation on the still in development yet rapidly growing Lightning Network. It’s a second-layer network that enables fast, secure, private and inexpensive payments that don’t make sense to store on bitcoin’s base layer. But while that might sound ideal, it’s not simple in practice. A scrappy community of companies and developers have been pushing the tech consistently forward as the number of hard problems still to solve ticks down.
Even as early as we are, Lightning has proven to be a radical improvement on the user experience of bitcoin. On the bitcoin network, fees vary but typically range from $1–5 and complete with confirmation in an average of ten minutes. With Lightning, fees and transaction times drop dramatically: the transaction fees are generally 1/100th or 1/10th of a penny and take just seconds.
If the improvements of Lightning are clear, why isn’t everyone using it today? Listen to hear more about the challenges and solutions coming to this rapidly-evolving aspect of bitcoin.
A good, non technical listening if you have a spare hour.
 

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