+1 ^
never say die. This experience is not a memorable one, but ill stick it out with Mr. Steam.
Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 117. (Read 423279 times)
everyone in front of me in line should demand a refund right away!
Ill stick it out and see what happens...
Ill stick it out and see what happens...
Hate to say it, but I would like a refund at this point.
I've paid for hosting as well -- will some of those costs be refundable?
I've paid for hosting as well -- will some of those costs be refundable?
Looking forward to more information on the refund... or if anyone wants to buy mine for a discount...
Hehe! don't leave the refund space. It will only get processed once a full 10k batch has been filled as refund status if i read steamboat right.. And then he will post a refund ticket with bitsyncom, and then if they process for us, we'll get paid in turn..
(and then, those who dont want refund from batch 6, will be pushed up to batch 5, and if he fills the entire amount for batch 5 for refund they will be pushed to batch 4..)
Looking forward to more information on the refund... or if anyone wants to buy mine for a discount...
Refund too thanks. Yifu is such a....
I also will prefer a refund please.
I will prefer a refund please. 
Sir, this is a masterclass in how you communicate effectively with your customers. You are a credit to the community Steamboat.
Well done steamboat, thanks for update. Asicminer drop in blades, will for sure make these batches not roi for most of us.. even if delivered today.
I emailed for my refund. I hope now some of you gets your chips delivered faster, as the last batches will get refunded as yifu (hopefully) processes them and put your line in the queue further up.
I emailed for my refund. I hope now some of you gets your chips delivered faster, as the last batches will get refunded as yifu (hopefully) processes them and put your line in the queue further up.
Thank You SteamBoat, all we need now is the ACIS chips. I'm hoping to start mining with the F16's I've ordered soon.
Yeah, i'd go with a refund. And maybe invest in something on hand.
Excellent update & hoping for the best!!
The board looks GREAT!!!! Can't wait to get 1 or 2 or.........
Thank you Steamboat
The board looks GREAT!!!! Can't wait to get 1 or 2 or.........
Thank you Steamboat
Thank you SB!
How do we request a chip refund?
How do we request a chip refund?
Update:
Chip Purchase:
We have given Yifu and Bitsyncom significantly more leeway than warranted as we understand unforeseen circumstances can delay processing, and chose to use the tools they have provided to attempt to determine the status of our orders. As this proved fruitless, we began seeking other methods of contacting Yifu, which have also been in vain. Our tickets, messages, and phone calls have been met with silence, while our delivery date has come and gone.
We have over the last couple of weeks been seeking professional guidance regarding the most effective way to recoup losses from actual and reliance damages caused by Yifu and Bitsyncom. While speaking with Yifu personally in order to come to an agreement that is acceptable to both parties is ideal, he has refused to communicate with us and legal action may be our only recourse. This is most definitely not the preferred method to address the situation, and in no way guarantees compensation for damages, but we may be left with no other choice. We will continue to develop our strategy, and welcome any group buy organizers who wish to collaborate on this. Again, this is a worst case scenario and we do not want to take this path if it is in any way avoidable, but we cannot in good conscience say we have done our due diligence without preparing for this possibility.
We will continue to try to contact Yifu, and if anyone has information regarding a reliable method to reach him, please send us an email.
Chip Refunds:
The Avalon website clearly states in their “no BS” terms of sale there are no refunds for Batch purchases. Yifu has since stated he will be making a refund form for chip purchases (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3030839). Whether he will, when the refund option will be available, and when the refund will be processed is unknown. In the event Yifu and Bitsyncom do allow refunds, we will facilitate this process for all those willing to do so. We have tentatively drafted the following, which will be finalized and updated upon confirmation of this option from Yifu and Bitsyncom.
All those requesting a chip refund will be allowed to do so, so long as there are enough requests to fulfill an entire batch. We will not force anyone to accept a refund.
Refunds of batches will be requested from Yifu and Bitsyncom beginning with the last batch, and continue to the first so long as refund requests fill an entire batch.
Customers in a batch which has been refunded will be placed in an earlier batch according to their position in that batch’s order, and their position relative to other batches. All purchases will be kept in their original order, and the order book truncated to reflect the refunded purchases.
Once a refund request has been placed with us, and the refund request submitted to Yifu and Bitsyncom, it is final. There will be no option to receive the chips originally ordered for any reason once the process has begun.
Chip purchase refunds will be dispersed upon receipt of the refund from Yifu and Bitsyncom. We will supply any administrative paperwork necessary and do what we can to facilitate the refund, but we are not responsible for any delays outside of our control, which include delayed receipt of the refund from Yifu and Bitsyncom, and will not disperse refunds prior to receipt of the funds from Yifu and Bitsyncom.
We will post an update and send an email to everyone who has purchased chips with additional information and instructions once we have received confirmation of the refund option.
Assembly Refunds:
We currently are not accepting refunds for the assembly service. There are a number of items involved in producing the Fusion 16 aside from the physical materials necessary whose cost cannot be recouped. The PCB, BOM, shipping materials, and all included accessory components make up only a portion of the overall costs, the majority of which cannot be returned or refunded. It may be possible to resell a large portion of the BOM and some of the accessories, but this process will take time and will not result in 100% ROI. We are examining how best to approach this in order to prepare for the worst, and will post an update at that time.
An update on our situation:
In addition to the batch of chips we have purchased ourselves, we have also allocated more than 40% of the profits from each batch to the purchase of additional chips to ensure there is a cushion available to our customers in the event of a faulty chip or odd number order; 100 of which are allocated as “equilibrium chips” at no additional cost.
Throughout this process we have pre-purchased the product before offering it to the public. We believe in our abilities, and have acted accordingly. We purchased the components necessary to produce 3,000 Fusion 16’s, in some cases at very inflated prices with expedited shipping charges, in order to make sure we were ready to fulfill our responsibilities. Of the 3,000 assembly kits we have on hand, we have sold roughly 2,400. We have also continued to add to the Fusion 16 items which we had not originally had time to offer, without any increase in price. We chose an assembly house in the US even though it was 10 times more expensive than assembling the units overseas because we value verifiable quality and expedited shipping times more than our profit margin, which is why we can offer the shortest lead time of any Avalon based product.
I am not alone on this project, and could not hope to accomplish our goals without an amazing team. Most of the team members involved have been working on this project for little to no compensation, and several full time, because we believe in our capabilities and are dedicated to providing quality service which is so desperately needed in this community. We knew the risks when we started, and we are not giving up. We will continue to work to provide the best possible resolution.
Board assembly:
We have produced the first articles of the Fusion16. The board has passed electrical testing and the firmware has been loaded. We are working closely with other Klondike based vendors and cgminer devs to troubleshoot the units, and expect to be fully functional by the weekend. The assembly house is fully prepped and waiting, pending final verification of the design, and we should not experience any delays due to the boards arriving unannounced.
We have discovered a bottleneck in production created by our firmware programming process, and are working to correct it immediately to ensure there are no delays.
Batches 1 and 2 are fully prepped and loaded in the final assembly line.
We are using this time to refine our processes and thoroughly test each phase to ensure the fastest possible turnaround.
I would like to personally thank those of you who have remained polite and courteous in spite of the current situation. We understand how disheartening this is, and appreciate you for thoroughly thinking this through with us to determine the best approach to take.
Chip Purchase:
We have given Yifu and Bitsyncom significantly more leeway than warranted as we understand unforeseen circumstances can delay processing, and chose to use the tools they have provided to attempt to determine the status of our orders. As this proved fruitless, we began seeking other methods of contacting Yifu, which have also been in vain. Our tickets, messages, and phone calls have been met with silence, while our delivery date has come and gone.
We have over the last couple of weeks been seeking professional guidance regarding the most effective way to recoup losses from actual and reliance damages caused by Yifu and Bitsyncom. While speaking with Yifu personally in order to come to an agreement that is acceptable to both parties is ideal, he has refused to communicate with us and legal action may be our only recourse. This is most definitely not the preferred method to address the situation, and in no way guarantees compensation for damages, but we may be left with no other choice. We will continue to develop our strategy, and welcome any group buy organizers who wish to collaborate on this. Again, this is a worst case scenario and we do not want to take this path if it is in any way avoidable, but we cannot in good conscience say we have done our due diligence without preparing for this possibility.
We will continue to try to contact Yifu, and if anyone has information regarding a reliable method to reach him, please send us an email.
Chip Refunds:
The Avalon website clearly states in their “no BS” terms of sale there are no refunds for Batch purchases. Yifu has since stated he will be making a refund form for chip purchases (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3030839). Whether he will, when the refund option will be available, and when the refund will be processed is unknown. In the event Yifu and Bitsyncom do allow refunds, we will facilitate this process for all those willing to do so. We have tentatively drafted the following, which will be finalized and updated upon confirmation of this option from Yifu and Bitsyncom.
All those requesting a chip refund will be allowed to do so, so long as there are enough requests to fulfill an entire batch. We will not force anyone to accept a refund.
Refunds of batches will be requested from Yifu and Bitsyncom beginning with the last batch, and continue to the first so long as refund requests fill an entire batch.
Customers in a batch which has been refunded will be placed in an earlier batch according to their position in that batch’s order, and their position relative to other batches. All purchases will be kept in their original order, and the order book truncated to reflect the refunded purchases.
Once a refund request has been placed with us, and the refund request submitted to Yifu and Bitsyncom, it is final. There will be no option to receive the chips originally ordered for any reason once the process has begun.
Chip purchase refunds will be dispersed upon receipt of the refund from Yifu and Bitsyncom. We will supply any administrative paperwork necessary and do what we can to facilitate the refund, but we are not responsible for any delays outside of our control, which include delayed receipt of the refund from Yifu and Bitsyncom, and will not disperse refunds prior to receipt of the funds from Yifu and Bitsyncom.
We will post an update and send an email to everyone who has purchased chips with additional information and instructions once we have received confirmation of the refund option.
Assembly Refunds:
We currently are not accepting refunds for the assembly service. There are a number of items involved in producing the Fusion 16 aside from the physical materials necessary whose cost cannot be recouped. The PCB, BOM, shipping materials, and all included accessory components make up only a portion of the overall costs, the majority of which cannot be returned or refunded. It may be possible to resell a large portion of the BOM and some of the accessories, but this process will take time and will not result in 100% ROI. We are examining how best to approach this in order to prepare for the worst, and will post an update at that time.
An update on our situation:
In addition to the batch of chips we have purchased ourselves, we have also allocated more than 40% of the profits from each batch to the purchase of additional chips to ensure there is a cushion available to our customers in the event of a faulty chip or odd number order; 100 of which are allocated as “equilibrium chips” at no additional cost.
Throughout this process we have pre-purchased the product before offering it to the public. We believe in our abilities, and have acted accordingly. We purchased the components necessary to produce 3,000 Fusion 16’s, in some cases at very inflated prices with expedited shipping charges, in order to make sure we were ready to fulfill our responsibilities. Of the 3,000 assembly kits we have on hand, we have sold roughly 2,400. We have also continued to add to the Fusion 16 items which we had not originally had time to offer, without any increase in price. We chose an assembly house in the US even though it was 10 times more expensive than assembling the units overseas because we value verifiable quality and expedited shipping times more than our profit margin, which is why we can offer the shortest lead time of any Avalon based product.
I am not alone on this project, and could not hope to accomplish our goals without an amazing team. Most of the team members involved have been working on this project for little to no compensation, and several full time, because we believe in our capabilities and are dedicated to providing quality service which is so desperately needed in this community. We knew the risks when we started, and we are not giving up. We will continue to work to provide the best possible resolution.
Board assembly:
We have produced the first articles of the Fusion16. The board has passed electrical testing and the firmware has been loaded. We are working closely with other Klondike based vendors and cgminer devs to troubleshoot the units, and expect to be fully functional by the weekend. The assembly house is fully prepped and waiting, pending final verification of the design, and we should not experience any delays due to the boards arriving unannounced.
We have discovered a bottleneck in production created by our firmware programming process, and are working to correct it immediately to ensure there are no delays.
Batches 1 and 2 are fully prepped and loaded in the final assembly line.
We are using this time to refine our processes and thoroughly test each phase to ensure the fastest possible turnaround.
I would like to personally thank those of you who have remained polite and courteous in spite of the current situation. We understand how disheartening this is, and appreciate you for thoroughly thinking this through with us to determine the best approach to take.
[snip]
We are only asking for refunds on what we payed for chips - steamboat actually made profit on the chip sales alone (10% each batch).
[snip]
I am in batch #5 and I want a refund. We need to come up with an organized way on how this would work.
I welcome anyone wanting a refund to start adding themselves to the google doc below, including: amount of chips, batch number, and your official transaction id.
Hopefully we can get enough users to report and get close to a full batch of chips.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au277u2T6_H3dGRjZkllM3R5cTdVXzZpd0h2Sm5Ub3c#gid=0
We are only asking for refunds on what we payed for chips - steamboat actually made profit on the chip sales alone (10% each batch).
[snip]
I am in batch #5 and I want a refund. We need to come up with an organized way on how this would work.
I welcome anyone wanting a refund to start adding themselves to the google doc below, including: amount of chips, batch number, and your official transaction id.
Hopefully we can get enough users to report and get close to a full batch of chips.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au277u2T6_H3dGRjZkllM3R5cTdVXzZpd0h2Sm5Ub3c#gid=0
it's locked.
Fixed, sorry about that
Well, had some vandalism so locked it down. If you want to legitimately be added to this list please email information to [email protected]
Include:
- Username
- Number of chips
- Batch #
- Transaction ID
The new link is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au277u2T6_H3dGRjZkllM3R5cTdVXzZpd0h2Sm5Ub3c#gid=0
There are a lot of moving parts here. Personally, I'd want to hear from steamboat on what our options are, especially as it relates to what we've already paid for assembly/shipping--before I'd commit to asking for a chip refund.
You can register your interest for a refund even before steamboat replies.
This will give us an indication on the total number of chips queued for a refund if a decision is made to go down that path.
[snip]
We are only asking for refunds on what we payed for chips - steamboat actually made profit on the chip sales alone (10% each batch).
[snip]
I am in batch #5 and I want a refund. We need to come up with an organized way on how this would work.
I welcome anyone wanting a refund to start adding themselves to the google doc below, including: amount of chips, batch number, and your official transaction id.
Hopefully we can get enough users to report and get close to a full batch of chips.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au277u2T6_H3dHBpYWxKRVpDMmVBVDlXaW9MNUFialE&usp=sharing
We are only asking for refunds on what we payed for chips - steamboat actually made profit on the chip sales alone (10% each batch).
[snip]
I am in batch #5 and I want a refund. We need to come up with an organized way on how this would work.
I welcome anyone wanting a refund to start adding themselves to the google doc below, including: amount of chips, batch number, and your official transaction id.
Hopefully we can get enough users to report and get close to a full batch of chips.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au277u2T6_H3dHBpYWxKRVpDMmVBVDlXaW9MNUFialE&usp=sharing
it's locked.
Fixed, sorry about that
There are a lot of moving parts here. Personally, I'd want to hear from steamboat on what our options are, especially as it relates to what we've already paid for assembly/shipping--before I'd commit to asking for a chip refund.
By trying(!) to get involved in Bitcoin mining, there are two things in particular I've been hoping for: (1) that the Bitcoin/mining community would be an example of a large group of technically-minded people working together to accomplish something great*; and (2) that I'd make some money.
As to (2)--making money--I don't expect to get rich quick--or at all, really. But I did not contribute funds to this venture as a charity case, intending to lose it all. I understand there are risks, and I accepted most of them. However, I do not consider the current situation a risk that we should have had to account for, as I explained here.
Regarding (1): succeeding as a community with this great Bitcoin (mining) experiment requires that we don't repeatedly allow ourselves to be screwed by liars, cheaters, incompetents, malfeasants, and the like. Avalon's failure to deliver anywhere close to their "no BS" 9-10 week stated time frame, and their lack of good faith effort to provide adequate explanation for the delays--with proof--has me thinking that they are one or more of these things.
Judging by this shitstorm, it looks to me like Yifu won't do anything to make things right without pressure being applied. So, how do we band together, and what do we want?
IMO, any of the following would be acceptable:
1. Chips delivered (by some TBD deadline), plus financial compensation (USD or BTC).
2. Full chip refund, plus additional financial compensation (USD or BTC). Steamboat does whatever he can to provide a (partial) refund for assembly/PCBs.
3. (1) for some batches, and (2) for others.
4. A lawsuit that results in Avalon paying financial restitution, going out of business, and Avalon stakeholders are personally penalized for unfair dealings**.
5. Some combination of these.
For solution 4, I could live with spending more money (to pay for a lawyer), on top of what we've already spent/lost here, if it serves as a deterrent to undesirable would-be mining equipment vendors. This would be a benefit to the community in the long run. The lawsuit may or may not result in adequate compensation for our losses due to Avalon's failures.
Steamboat, I hope you're at least brainstorming with zefir on these things.
* I hope we'll "accomplish something great", by enabling Bitcoin to thrive--with all its benefits and value for convenience and commerce, and as an experiment of a deflationary currency with a hard supply limit.
** "Best case" scenario of the "unfair dealings" is that they have some legitimate explanation for it all, but made no effort to communicate verifiable truth to us.
As to (2)--making money--I don't expect to get rich quick--or at all, really. But I did not contribute funds to this venture as a charity case, intending to lose it all. I understand there are risks, and I accepted most of them. However, I do not consider the current situation a risk that we should have had to account for, as I explained here.
Regarding (1): succeeding as a community with this great Bitcoin (mining) experiment requires that we don't repeatedly allow ourselves to be screwed by liars, cheaters, incompetents, malfeasants, and the like. Avalon's failure to deliver anywhere close to their "no BS" 9-10 week stated time frame, and their lack of good faith effort to provide adequate explanation for the delays--with proof--has me thinking that they are one or more of these things.
Judging by this shitstorm, it looks to me like Yifu won't do anything to make things right without pressure being applied. So, how do we band together, and what do we want?
IMO, any of the following would be acceptable:
1. Chips delivered (by some TBD deadline), plus financial compensation (USD or BTC).
2. Full chip refund, plus additional financial compensation (USD or BTC). Steamboat does whatever he can to provide a (partial) refund for assembly/PCBs.
3. (1) for some batches, and (2) for others.
4. A lawsuit that results in Avalon paying financial restitution, going out of business, and Avalon stakeholders are personally penalized for unfair dealings**.
5. Some combination of these.
For solution 4, I could live with spending more money (to pay for a lawyer), on top of what we've already spent/lost here, if it serves as a deterrent to undesirable would-be mining equipment vendors. This would be a benefit to the community in the long run. The lawsuit may or may not result in adequate compensation for our losses due to Avalon's failures.
Steamboat, I hope you're at least brainstorming with zefir on these things.
* I hope we'll "accomplish something great", by enabling Bitcoin to thrive--with all its benefits and value for convenience and commerce, and as an experiment of a deflationary currency with a hard supply limit.
** "Best case" scenario of the "unfair dealings" is that they have some legitimate explanation for it all, but made no effort to communicate verifiable truth to us.
Agree with everyone agreeing on refunds, since Yifu is offering this it is obviously a good choice for all involved to take advantage of it,
What makes you think he'll actually refund anything?
Yifu has shown that he is a bully. He mocks and attacks people constantly in his messages, but then suddenly starts to communicate a little and hint at refunds when Zifur threatens FBI scale legal action over $15M.
Bullies back down if you confront them.
Steamboat should be friendly but firm with him, give him a choice:
a) Refunds batches xx, xx, xx by Sept 1. or
b) We (Zefir and I and other batch owners) will contact the FBI division the just put pirate in jail, and work with them to go after you to the full extent of the law.
Refunds for all... who have asked.
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