Perhaps it is best to avoid speculating about what could happen.
I mean, little green men could come down from Mars and steal batch 1. What happens then?
Steamboat probably already knows what he will do, and I bet most buyers in his group buys will agree with his decision.
_theJestre
Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 125. (Read 423279 times)
However, what happens if one of the batches never arrives at all, and Avalon never makes it right? In any scenario where at least one batch never arrives, then batch 6 buyers never gets their chips. Does that seem fair to you?
Most compelling point yet.
Except it DOES seem fair to me. It's like saying "Do you think it's fair that the first 10 people at the Black Friday sale get the 10 $.99 TVs?" Absolutely.
Bad analogy -- this isn't Black Friday, everyone had already paid good money to get into the door.
Steamboat has explicitly correlated batch numbers with Avalon order numbers in the OP. The assumption is that the batches would ship in order, however there is no fine print that details how the other batches will be expected to forfeit their chips if the orders arrive out of sequence. The correlation in the OP is an implicit agreement as to which chips belong to which buyers. Any deviation from those assignments would be changing the terms of the purchase agreement.
Hopefully SB will issue some clarity on this, and hopefully more so it won't end up being an issue.
However, what happens if one of the batches never arrives at all, and Avalon never makes it right? In any scenario where at least one batch never arrives, then batch 6 buyers never gets their chips. Does that seem fair to you?
Most compelling point yet.
Except it DOES seem fair to me. It's like saying "Do you think it's fair that the first 10 people at the Black Friday sale get the 10 $.99 TVs?" Absolutely.
Clearly the first batch to arrive should go to the Batch #1 buyers, who have been waiting the longest.
Anything else is ridiculous.
This buy has been FIFO since day one. Who cares about whatever number Avalon decides to stick on the side of a box?
Anything else is ridiculous.
This buy has been FIFO since day one. Who cares about whatever number Avalon decides to stick on the side of a box?
However, what happens if one of the batches never arrives at all, and Avalon never makes it right? In any scenario where at least one batch never arrives, then batch 6 buyers never gets their chips. Does that seem fair to you?
Most compelling point yet.
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
Absolutely this. I imagine doing anything other than a FIFO queue for batches would be courting massive customer backlash.
Thought experiment: what if there were 500 batches and the odds of at least one of those 500 batches never being delivered was 85% (sounds like a reasonable probability) -- would it make logical sense that the last batch has 100% of the burden of the possibility of any one of the 500 batches never being delivered? Absolutely not.
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
Spoken like a true batch one buyer
But seriously, IMO the chips from each batch belong the the purchasers of THAT SPECIFIC BATCH. If later batches come in before "my" batch, I'd expect to see those buyers get the chips. I have no claim to them, since I didn't purchase them.
As has already been stated, the buyers in each batch assumed the risks of THAT batch. I'm not keen on giving chips from "my" batch to another buyer, and I wouldn't expect THEM to give ME their chips.
We are being told to act like big boys, wait for our chips and take our lumps. So we sure as heck shouldn't be re-allocating chips from one batch to another, to ease earlier buyers risk.
I certainly hope none of this happens, so that this unfortunate conversation becomes irrelevant. However, considering recent events, I hope steamboat will clarify what he would do in these cases.
While I admit I am in later batches, I do think cardcomm's suggestion is fair. Doing otherwise unfairly increases the risk for those in later batches.
So you guys are saying,if the order# on the box recieved is for batch 3 chips,they get thiers first??? I'm in batch 3 & would be uncomfortable with this..................
First batch recieved goes to the first batch buyers......regardless of order # on the box
Its only fair.
Y I FU has screwed us,not our fellows in the other batch orders or Steamboat................
First batch recieved goes to the first batch buyers......regardless of order # on the box
Its only fair.Y I FU has screwed us,not our fellows in the other batch orders or Steamboat................
I think I see what you're saying, and you'd be trying to correct Yifu's screw-up, which--right or wrong--would make some sense.
However, what happens if one of the batches never arrives at all, and Avalon never makes it right? In any scenario where at least one batch never arrives, then batch 6 buyers never gets their chips. Does that seem fair to you?
Still, ionstorm does bring up an interesting point, which further complicates things. I personally am undecided on whether I agree.
The other question is this: the funds from batch 1 and 2 as well as assembly costs were used to acquire PCB and components, labor and fund everything through batch 4 minus the chips. Assembly should still be done in order of who purchased assembly. So if batch 5 comes first it would be allot less than fair for them to get assembled units sooner than batch 1. So batch 1 and 2 paid for assembly through batch 4 and that should be theirs. I believe steamboat should have people wait or ship them their chips
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
Absolutely this. I imagine doing anything other than a FIFO queue for batches would be courting massive customer backlash.
So you guys are saying,if the order# on the box recieved is for batch 3 chips,they get thiers first??? I'm in batch 3 & would be uncomfortable with this..................
First batch recieved goes to the first batch buyers......regardless of order # on the box Its only fair.
Y I FU has screwed us,not our fellows in the other batch orders or Steamboat................
First batch recieved goes to the first batch buyers......regardless of order # on the box
Its only fair.Y I FU has screwed us,not our fellows in the other batch orders or Steamboat................
The other question is this: the funds from batch 1 and 2 as well as assembly costs were used to acquire PCB and components, labor and fund everything through batch 4 minus the chips. Assembly should still be done in order of who purchased assembly. So if batch 5 comes first it would be allot less than fair for them to get assembled units sooner than batch 1. So batch 1 and 2 paid for assembly through batch 4 and that should be theirs. I believe steamboat should have people wait or ship them their chips
Yes, but so far no chips have arrived. Only so far the remaining batches sample chips did arrive according to his post..
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
Spoken like a true batch one buyer
But seriously, IMO the chips from each batch belong the the purchasers of THAT SPECIFIC BATCH. If later batches come in before "my" batch, I'd expect to see those buyers get the chips. I have no claim to them, since I didn't purchase them.
As has already been stated, the buyers in each batch assumed the risks of THAT batch. I'm not keen on giving chips from "my" batch to another buyer, and I wouldn't expect THEM to give ME their chips.
We are being told to act like big boys, wait for our chips and take our lumps. So we sure as heck shouldn't be re-allocating chips from one batch to another, to ease earlier buyers risk.
I bought into batches 3 & 4, specifically batches 3 & 4. If they legitimately and verifiably come last, that is the risk that I took. But whenever the chips that I ordered arrive, specifically whenever the chips with order numbers matching batches 3 & 4 arrive, I would like the order I placed to be processed.
BitSyncom is apparently anything but predictable or reliable, so we'll just see.
BitSyncom is apparently anything but predictable or reliable, so we'll just see.
I think we should use the time extra time that we now have productively.
Maybe a fully functioning K16 could be assembled (with sample chips), by either Steamboat, or BkkCoins (or somebody else), and be used to make sure CG miner works with it just fine.
Maybe explore some overclocking options on it, do some benchmarks, that sort of thing, and post them, so that people know what to expect.
Hopefully, that will get everything running smoothly once the chips DO get here.
Get rid of all the negativity...man...it's like walking into a total bitchfest on these forums lately.
Maybe a fully functioning K16 could be assembled (with sample chips), by either Steamboat, or BkkCoins (or somebody else), and be used to make sure CG miner works with it just fine.
Maybe explore some overclocking options on it, do some benchmarks, that sort of thing, and post them, so that people know what to expect.
Hopefully, that will get everything running smoothly once the chips DO get here.
Get rid of all the negativity...man...it's like walking into a total bitchfest on these forums lately.
K16's have been assembled and mining for about 3 weeks now by bkkcoins. Cgminer works just fine.. I am not sure if anyone aside from Bkkcoins has the K16 or has burned any ASICs to them... I'm currently a few weeks from receiving my K1 and K16 boards.. I have one of these stupid avalons already sitting on my laptop from the samples sent out from sebastianJu's kindness... If anyone would like to donate more chips I could open threads to show the process of burning them to K16's.. which I will being doing for the K1 and usb dongle soon.. wish me luck.. at this time I have only one shot at getting it right =)
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
But what if they're technically not the owners of those chips? I don't think that being a batch1 customer grants you the advantage of running 0 risk, while every next batch runs exponentially more risk. Every batch should run the risk of their particular order imo.
I guess we can estimate the total number of chips ordered based on Avalon's address 1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU. If this is the only address for chip orders then 75,779.8 BTC received would give us 97 batches total paid to that address. So roughly, about 10 batches total per our batch orders.
I can't imagine anything but sending the first 10k chips to batch 1 customers and so on.
If batch 1's order is impounded, this should be accounted to the risk of the batch 1 owners. Otherwise owners of the later batches always have a very unfair disadvantage over early batches, having the highest risk of very very long delays or not receiving anything at all, while it could well be that their specific order was delivered with no problems.
I agree with this -- presuming the chips include a packing slip with an order number then they should be matched up with their exact batch as ordered. It wouldn't make sense for the last batch or two to take all of the risk of possible shipping delays for earlier batches. Steamboat what is your plan of action if Avalon ships out randomly?
For instance, what if batch 3's order arrives before that of batch 1? Will you servivce batch 1 first nonetheless, or will you respect the order numbers and ship out the orders relevant to the batches that paid for that particular order?
Just asking this as it may be useful to have this determined beforehand, in order to avoid shenanigens if this situation does occur. Due to the proven lack of organization at Avalon, I'd consider this a viable scenario.
Personally I'd vouch for delivering the orders specific to the batch that paid for the particular order.
For instance, what if batch 3's order arrives before that of batch 1? Will you servivce batch 1 first nonetheless, or will you respect the order numbers and ship out the orders relevant to the batches that paid for that particular order?
Just asking this as it may be useful to have this determined beforehand, in order to avoid shenanigens if this situation does occur. Due to the proven lack of organization at Avalon, I'd consider this a viable scenario.
Personally I'd vouch for delivering the orders specific to the batch that paid for the particular order.
My guess: Whatever order shows up first, will be used for batch 1.
Edit: I cant think of any reasons that would make any other action make sense.
Well, the simple reason that if batch 3 shows up first, all people in batch 3 are the collective owners of that particular batch, including all risks and benefits that came with that specific batch. They will not like it if batch 1 then is awarded their chips.
What if, for instance, batch 1's order is impounded by the customs? Just a random scenario, but consider it. If batch 1's order is impounded, this should be accounted to the risk of the batch 1 owners. Otherwise owners of the later batches always have a very unfair disadvantage over early batches, having the highest risk of very very long delays or not receiving anything at all, while it could well be that their specific order was delivered with no problems.
Therefore I think steamboat needs to be very precise and transparent on the order numbers of the batches that arrive, and award them to their respective batches no matter which one comes in first (if it comes in at all). And therefore I think steamboat needs to make this clear before the chips start arriving, so there will be no ambiguity. I'd even vouch for posting pics of the order no's of the batches as they come in, so everybody can see for themselves which chips did or did not arrive - even though I trust steamboat in such matters, there can never be too much information posted about >50K USD orders of materials.
I think we should use the time extra time that we now have productively.
Maybe a fully functioning K16 could be assembled (with sample chips), by either Steamboat, or BkkCoins (or somebody else), and be used to make sure CG miner works with it just fine.
Maybe explore some overclocking options on it, do some benchmarks, that sort of thing, and post them, so that people know what to expect.
Hopefully, that will get everything running smoothly once the chips DO get here.
Get rid of all the negativity...man...it's like walking into a total bitchfest on these forums lately.
Maybe a fully functioning K16 could be assembled (with sample chips), by either Steamboat, or BkkCoins (or somebody else), and be used to make sure CG miner works with it just fine.
Maybe explore some overclocking options on it, do some benchmarks, that sort of thing, and post them, so that people know what to expect.
Hopefully, that will get everything running smoothly once the chips DO get here.
Get rid of all the negativity...man...it's like walking into a total bitchfest on these forums lately.
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