Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 88. (Read 423279 times)

As far as I've seen, the issue of making both banks hash on the (the banks are actually both hasing at the moment, the problem is they are working on the same data) K16 is a software issue and should be solvable by making changes and additions to the current firmware code/drivers.

If you study BkkCoin's project in his thread you will be able to answer your own question.  Didn't do any reasearch before shouting 'shut up and take my money'? ;-) (Just pun intended, no offense)

It's a DIY project guys (DO-IT-YOURSELF) :-D

would love some news on what steamboats plan is on getting these boards hashing 16 chips, and some news on when we'll gets chips.  At this point even if chips ship they'll be stuck with steamboat for god knows how long until he gets the board hashing correctly.  

You're missing the point, why is delivery even an option when it's becoming more and more liekly the chips will never arrive?  Just seems odd with all the management of the refund process AND also managing the distribution of chips if they arrive (probably in Jan'14) that will have negative ROI...  If 90% ask for refunds (which I expect it to be), why not just refund all batches to the original senders bitcoin address instead of monkeying around for dozens of hours trying to process everyone's individual needs?  The odds are 1 batch will be stuck with a small group of trolls/afks not caring about a refund at all.

The extra 5% commission on 1 batch of delivery definitely wouldn't outweigh the work involved with processing all these each refund individually so i'm not sure why steamboat is going this route, I sure as hell wouldn't.

This whole thing has turned into an utter disaster. One point that most people seem to be ignoring is that even is ships HAD shipped on time, we still would not have a working board to put them on. I'm refunding my order with assembly from batch 4 as I have no confidence that any of the proposed or in progress solutions will bear fruit. Avalon has lost all credibility. Steamboat I believe tried to do the right thing in spending the required cash to have everything ready for chip arrival. Unfortunately for all of us, the chips just aren't coming and we have no working board design even if they do. We are all losing money on this deal. At least we can wash our hands of it, Steamboat doesn't have that option.

My thought process was the same. Everyone should understand that bitcoin, and bitcoin mining is a risky investment, and then take a risk they are comfortable with.

My risk assessment was that Avalon chips were proven technology and basically just a matter of manufacturing them in a larger quantity, therefore low risk. I was wrong on that assumption.

However, getting these chips to mine is a different story. I assumed it was low risk to go for assemblers using Avalon's reference design (there are at least 3 of them out there). Going with one of the new designs (burnin, klondike) was always high risk, as their designs were unproven. Paying for assembly on an unproven design (steamboat, terrahash, etc) was always a risk too far for me. From following the development threads it was always clear that burnin was ahead in terms of progress on his design. A fully populated board was demonstrated working overclocked with extremely low error rates, months ago. Burnin proved his design and then proved he could assemble it in large quantities. He probably lost out the most on potential income because of Avalon's failure to deliver. But for the Klondike design, according to steamboat, we still do not have a fully populated board mining, and we still have the step of proving it can be assembled in large quantities. Maybe, if sample chips would have been sent out earlier the situation would have been different. But I don't think the lack of sample chips slowed down design (at least I never got that idea from bkkcoins). Maybe if tens of thousands of chips had shown up at steamboat's door, development would have been accelerated. Maybe as suggested, the delays (and falling ROI) caused developers to slow down their efforts. Maybe. But how big a difference that would have made is a matter for debate. Just my 2c.

With no set date to receive chips and the current state of the K16 project I am left with no choice but to refund. My investment was not large to begin with so the hash rate I would receive is now worthless. I will take what I can get back from assembly, but if it is only 25% then I definitely want the boards and components I paid for...maybe I can use them for soldering practice...

It's unsettling to think the 'crowd sourced' funds for this massive project somehow are to be consumed for the good of the project with nothing to show for us.  We didn't pay an assembly set up fee, we paid an assembly fee.  It's a bizarre business model to take customer funds to prepare for a production run that doesn't mature, then tell customers China can't supply the last part so they're out of luck.  Granted, nonrefundable setup fees are typical with many products--but they're separate fees and the customer commits knowingly.  Meanwhile, the business has what we're led to believe is a nearly complete production line for future customers.  We are now invested in the production line that future customers will pay for a product with lower setup costs (since we already paid for the setup costs).  That could mean more profit for steamboat on future products.

Steamboat made decisions for his business without consulting those who funded his coffers.  If consulted, who knows what we may have decided.  I would have said don't spend our funds preparing for assembly, I'll risk longer assembly time and secure a 100% assembly refund if the deal goes south.  Instead steamboat spent our funds, hoping for the best, which typically is a business expenditure/risk.

It's a solemn situation and I'm not going to make any demands outside of the refund being offered. I imagine steamboat, yufi, BFL and everyone else involved in paying for vapor products has learned a lesson (or ten).  I've submitted full chip and assembly refund requested from batch 5. I'll use the heat sink as a business card holder.

Regardless, thanks for the effort, steamboat, et all.  A monumental attempt was made.

exactly. but collect  money for assembly is easy! but to assemble it working, different story.
I dont want to get involved, i never participated in parts/assembly, only chips. This was the main reason, the maker of the boards didnt even get it working, then how could steamboat..

Steamboat, great that you replied and all, I'm sure you can answer some simple small questions.

Mainly this one: how do we, the users, verify whether our refund request was accepted by your scripts?

You say yourself, a lot of them were rejected because of reasons.

Agreed. That's and the 'who knows when we'll get our chips' timeline are why I finally decided to refund, but will keep my ears to the ground on future endeavors. Everyone's heart was in the right place and I want to encourage that spirit next time again

You need to re-read the email.  If everyone requests a refund, then all batches will be refunded.  "We will process any orders for those that wish to continue with assembly, and our policy of not forcing anyone to accept a refund still stands."  This is a group buy, by participating you need to accept that you're somewhat bound by the decisions of the group.

I think from his email it is clear he is recommending we ask for refunds (as he has for his chips).

Seems to me the real problem now is lack of incentive to get it working.  Most of the people experienced with the design and so downhearted they've downed tools.  I think the design is likely to be working in a week or so.  I feel for those chips have been delivered for a few weeks now but they have no working design (not in this group buy).

Appreciate the update, can't be easy to try and manage $500,000+ in possible refunds spread across hundreds of people.

It's in the email that was sent this morning (and quoted in this thread) - K16 works for half the chips (it will hash with 8 chips at full speed). Hashing on all 16 doesn't appear to be working at this time.

Did he even get the k16 to fully work? BKKcoins were struggeling, and he was the creator of the design..

I've lost my trust in avalon/k16/whatever related project.
Asked for refund for 320 chips in batch 2 (no assembly though).

7 refunds processed today. Cant find any of the batch addresses of steamboat:
https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

If you know how to sign a message then you don't need additional instructions. There's a few threads around that show how to do it (Canary's group buys for example iirc). My guess would be that some people missed the part in the form (or simply forgot) to take the quotes ouy of the message contents to be signed. If the message is off or different by even one character, the signature won't match and it could just as easily have come from a different wallet.

SB: I appreciate how you've handled this whole buy, and am thankful that you've tried to work with Yifu and had everything ready to go for chips. Too bad the other end of that agreement wasn't met by the chip supplier I will be requesting a refund and be watching for another buy in the future (hopefully not using avalon chips).

anyone in batch 1 & 2 still considering refunds?  I got 64 chips in batch 1 and 64 in batch 2 both with full assembly.  Considering a refund, not sure if we can ROI, anyone got some good estimates?

This 25% refund offer is wrong. What SMT line charged you all 60$ per boards? They have parts and pcb from 35$ what are not refundable. Are you saying you are not making profit from it? From assambly you have at least 30$ profit. From heatsink you have at least 15$. What those who did not ordered heatsink has with freight charges and why you are mitigate those cost on us?
When all this GB started steamboat searched heatsink supplier and willing to pay under 6$ per heatsink, if you include fun around 6$ you got 12$. He charge $30. This is open source project,you have not working board, and what you paid( as you say) for all the charges you speak in update, is not made by us and it should no be paid from our money.
Assambly(60$) is not done,period. You should and can refund those in full. Otherwise is against FTC rule and US laws!
All other assambly providers offer at least 50% (burnin for the cost for full board + 25% when he resold some parts).
Bitmine offer 80% for all batches less batch1 or credit for their future preoders
This is just wrong on so many levels. You are doing exactly what I thought, will making profit out of our lose! Shame!

Assambly house can not take even reservation fee for klondike assambly without exact delivery date! PCB +part for design what is still not in working order! Give me a break! What has licencig fee has to do with us, its open source project what is not finsihed! You are making a fool out of lot of people - its your good name on the stake, if you care, you would not pool such unfair policy. I had a quote in Germany for 30$ assambly, dont isult me with such sweetalk excuses and justifications.

I wonder how you are not able to process chip refund like others can and not able to communicate with such permium service we paid a long time ago?? All your sweetalk turn my stomach!

There is a difference of those who paid for assambly only (60+35) vs those who paid full assambly with heatsink.
I did not paid for heatsink, never wanted them and why I need to pay for those who has?
Need to separate those services!
35$ pcb and parts 0% refundable
assambly only ($60) at least 50% refund (and that is too low, should be at least 80%)
Heatsink can be used for future project and resold.
Hosting and shipping - 100% refund like you comited.

Privide some proof that you have paid 95$ (with parts) to assambly house and that SMT line denie you refund for the work what is not done!
And prove all other justification you made, if you can!
You are getting paid 75% of assambly and 100% for PCB and parts for nothing in return! How that is an fair for your buyers?