[LTC] Online Litecoin Miner - page 3.

pooler

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Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 11:02:47 AM

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

If this miner is running on a site and I open the site in 5 tabs or in tabs in 2 different browsers, how is this handled? Will only one instance of the miner run? Even if people opt in, I think by default it should still limit the rate on their box so as to not hurt performance.

That's another thing that is worth investigating. Of course at present every webpage loads its own miner, and that can be a problem if you have more than one page open. But... is it possible for an applet to detect the presence of other applets running?

Well, it turns out it is possible after all.

I have updated the jar file; now if you open a second tab the second applet should refuse to start mining.
I have not had the time to test it extensively; as always, if you encounter any issue please let me know.

btc_artist

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Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 11:02:47 AM

That's another thing that is worth investigating. Of course at present every webpage loads its own miner, and that can be a problem if you have more than one page open. But... is it possible for an applet to detect the presence of other applets running?

Could it be done based on CPU usage? If CPU usage is above a certain level, don't start the miner.

pooler

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Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

I'm not a Java expert, but it would appear to be possible by interfacing with native OS APIs. For example, on Windows, use JNI or JNA to call native Windows API functions to monitor battery status. Native calls could also be investigated for Linux and OSX.

Calling OS API functions from Java:
JNA http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2389156/calling-win32-api-method-from-java
JNI http://www.atwistedweb.com/java/jni.html

Windows Battery API functions:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3154554/how-do-i-get-battery-information-in-windows
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/233446/monitor-battery-charge-with-win32-api

I'm not saying it's easy or even possible at this point, but I think it warrants a bit more investigation.

The problem is that, unless I'm mistaken, it is not possible to make native calls from an unsigned applet.

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 10:01:02 AM

Another suggestion/question.

If this miner is running on a site and I open the site in 5 tabs or in tabs in 2 different browsers, how is this handled? Will only one instance of the miner run? Even if people opt in, I think by default it should still limit the rate on their box so as to not hurt performance.

That's another thing that is worth investigating. Of course at present every webpage loads its own miner, and that can be a problem if you have more than one page open. But... is it possible for an applet to detect the presence of other applets running?

btc_artist

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 102

Bitcoin!

Another suggestion/question.

If this miner is running on a site and I open the site in 5 tabs or in tabs in 2 different browsers, how is this handled? Will only one instance of the miner run? Even if people opt in, I think by default it should still limit the rate on their box so as to not hurt performance.

rTech

sr. member

Activity: 305

Merit: 250

Trust but confirm!

Well "to not steal" my clans website has warning before you can acces forum. It says that user solely accepts that we can use their cpu for mining if they step in our forum. None forces them to join my forum and its their freedom to decide if they want. Luckily finnish law is great and its fair enought to infrom users before they access. So practically its not stealing... There are no free meals, everything cost something for someone.

btc_artist

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Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 04:57:25 AM

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:27:26 AM

Another question-- is this, or will it be, open-sourced?

Didn't read the thread, eh?

Yes, the source will be released soon.

I skimmed it, but I must have missed that. Thanks.

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 04:57:25 AM

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:26:44 AM

It would also be very nice if you could detect a laptop/device running on battery power and not mine in that case. http://www.google.com/search?q=get%20battery%20level%20java

That would be nice, but sadly a standard way of getting battery level information in Java doesn't seem to exist. You may be able to get it on some phones, but I don't think an unsigned applet can get that kind of information when running on a laptop.

I'm not a Java expert, but it would appear to be possible by interfacing with native OS APIs. For example, on Windows, use JNI or JNA to call native Windows API functions to monitor battery status. Native calls could also be investigated for Linux and OSX.

Calling OS API functions from Java:
JNA http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2389156/calling-win32-api-method-from-java
JNI http://www.atwistedweb.com/java/jni.html

Windows Battery API functions:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3154554/how-do-i-get-battery-information-in-windows
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/233446/monitor-battery-charge-with-win32-api

I'm not saying it's easy or even possible at this point, but I think it warrants a bit more investigation.

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 04:57:25 AM

Quote

You also wouldn't want to mine if someone visits on a smartphone or some other low-powered device, but I guess the 2-core threshold will take care of that.

Not completely: dual-core mobile phones already exist. I will investigate, thank you for the suggestion!

You're welcome.

btc_artist

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Quote from: kano on November 30, 2011, 08:50:57 AM

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 08:14:31 AM

I have done some research, and it looks like at present no mobile phone can run ordinary Java SE applets.
That would mean one less problem to deal with.
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Of course the problem of laptops running on battery power still remains. I think the only satisfactory solution implies using cookies to remember users that have opted-out. My Javascript is a bit rusty, but if I remember correctly it shouldn't be too difficult to set these cookies client-side.

I am obviously talking about the first choice to start mining, not the page switch.
When you first ask you also point out what they are doing (not hide it like a scammer)
Your reply seems to directly imply that you don't ask - (since you didn't already have a cookie to remember their choice) - thus it sounds like you ARE stealing CPU cycles ...

It should detect things like battery state and number of cpus, to offer reasonable defaults, or not even offer the option of running the miner. It's not even about whether you as the user or not.

terrytibbs

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Activity: 560

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Quote from: kano on November 30, 2011, 08:50:57 AM

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 08:14:31 AM

I have done some research, and it looks like at present no mobile phone can run ordinary Java SE applets.
That would mean one less problem to deal with.
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Of course the problem of laptops running on battery power still remains. I think the only satisfactory solution implies using cookies to remember users that have opted-out. My Javascript is a bit rusty, but if I remember correctly it shouldn't be too difficult to set these cookies client-side.

I am obviously talking about the first choice to start mining, not the page switch.
When you first ask you also point out what they are doing (not hide it like a scammer)
Your reply seems to directly imply that you don't ask - (since you didn't already have a cookie to remember their choice) - thus it sounds like you ARE stealing CPU cycles ...

Oh cut it out with the stealing already. Am I stealing your screen space if you visit my website?

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 08:14:31 AM

I have done some research, and it looks like at present no mobile phone can run ordinary Java SE applets.
That would mean one less problem to deal with.
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Of course the problem of laptops running on battery power still remains. I think the only satisfactory solution implies using cookies to remember users that have opted-out. My Javascript is a bit rusty, but if I remember correctly it shouldn't be too difficult to set these cookies client-side.

I am obviously talking about the first choice to start mining, not the page switch.
When you first ask you also point out what they are doing (not hide it like a scammer)
Your reply seems to directly imply that you don't ask - (since you didn't already have a cookie to remember their choice) - thus it sounds like you ARE stealing CPU cycles ...

pooler

hero member

Activity: 842

Merit: 507

I have done some research, and it looks like at present no mobile phone can run ordinary Java SE applets.
That would mean one less problem to deal with.
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Of course the problem of laptops running on battery power still remains. I think the only satisfactory solution implies using cookies to remember users that have opted-out. My Javascript is a bit rusty, but if I remember correctly it shouldn't be too difficult to set these cookies client-side.

pooler

hero member

Activity: 842

Merit: 507

Quote from: kano on November 30, 2011, 05:20:21 AM

Um - hang on a tick ... that should never be an issue.
You do ask them before taking their CPU cycles right?
You just simply say that "if they are on a mobile phone that they shouldn't" do it.

Edit: and the same issue regarding a laptop on a battery ... if you ask and explain the consequences there should be no issue .... unless you hid the consequences ... but you wouldn't do that coz that would be scamming them

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I think opt-out is more practical than opt-in for most sites, otherwise I'm pretty sure that many visitors who don't mind simply wouldn't bother turning the miner on.
Even if you start the applet on an opt-in basis, you certainly don't want the user to manually start the miner every time he goes from one page to another. You would probably use a cookie to remember the user's decision. So it would still be nice if the miner could automatically detect when a laptop is running on battery power and when it is not, as this could change at any time.

kano

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Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: pooler on November 30, 2011, 04:57:25 AM

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:27:26 AM

Another question-- is this, or will it be, open-sourced?

Didn't read the thread, eh?

Yes, the source will be released soon.

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:26:44 AM

It would also be very nice if you could detect a laptop/device running on battery power and not mine in that case. http://www.google.com/search?q=get%20battery%20level%20java

That would be nice, but sadly a standard way of getting battery level information in Java doesn't seem to exist. You may be able to get it on some phones, but I don't think an unsigned applet can get that kind of information when running on a laptop.

Quote

You also wouldn't want to mine if someone visits on a smartphone or some other low-powered device, but I guess the 2-core threshold will take care of that.

Not completely: dual-core mobile phones already exist. I will investigate, thank you for the suggestion!

Um - hang on a tick ... that should never be an issue.
You do ask them before taking their CPU cycles right?
You just simply say that "if they are on a mobile phone that they shouldn't" do it.

Edit: and the same issue regarding a laptop on a battery ... if you ask and explain the consequences there should be no issue .... unless you hid the consequences ... but you wouldn't do that coz that would be scamming them

pooler

hero member

Activity: 842

Merit: 507

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:27:26 AM

Another question-- is this, or will it be, open-sourced?

Didn't read the thread, eh?

Yes, the source will be released soon.

Quote from: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 03:26:44 AM

It would also be very nice if you could detect a laptop/device running on battery power and not mine in that case. http://www.google.com/search?q=get%20battery%20level%20java

That would be nice, but sadly a standard way of getting battery level information in Java doesn't seem to exist. You may be able to get it on some phones, but I don't think an unsigned applet can get that kind of information when running on a laptop.

Quote

You also wouldn't want to mine if someone visits on a smartphone or some other low-powered device, but I guess the 2-core threshold will take care of that.

Not completely: dual-core mobile phones already exist. I will investigate, thank you for the suggestion!

btc_artist

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Activity: 154

Merit: 102

Bitcoin!

Another question-- is this, or will it be, open-sourced?

btc_artist

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 102

Bitcoin!

It would also be very nice if you could detect a laptop/device running on battery power and not mine in that case. http://www.google.com/search?q=get%20battery%20level%20java You also wouldn't want to mine if someone visits on a smartphone or some other low-powered device, but I guess the 2-core threshold will take care of that.

pooler

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Activity: 842

Merit: 507

Quote from: btc_artist on November 29, 2011, 06:44:01 PM

Also, if you set threads to -1, will it not run on systems with 1 cpu?

Yes, that's what I proposed a couple days ago. The current default is:

1 cpu = leave it alone (0% of all resources)
2 cpus = use 80% of one (40% of all resources)
3 cpus = use 1.6 (80% of two) (53% of all resources)
4 cpus = use 2.4 (80% of three) (60% of all resources)

This looks very similar to what you proposed. The only noticeable difference is in the single-core case.
But again, I'm not sure we should put any stress on single-core machines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these would mainly be relatively old 32-bit cpus, and at 25% you wouldn't get much out of them.
We should also consider that every connection to the work provider puts a little more load on the server, so I wonder if it would be worth it.

btc_artist

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Also, if you set threads to -1, will it not run on systems with 1 cpu?

btc_artist

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Quote from: pooler on November 29, 2011, 04:56:27 PM

The first version of the embeddable miner is ready.

I have written a short guide for webmasters interested in testing:
http://www.litecoinpool.org/embed

It would be nice to have some more granularity in throttling the miner. A way to accomplish the following:

1 cpu = use 25% of it (25% of all resources)
2 cpus = use 75% of one (37.5% of all resources)
3 cpus = use 1.5 (100% of one and 50% of the second) (50% of all resources)
4 cpus = use 2.5 (100% of two and 50% of the third) (62.5% of all resources)

The goal would be to not overtax old systems, but give a little more work to newer systems that can handle it.

rTech

sr. member

Activity: 305

Merit: 250

Trust but confirm!

Yes its awesome, it make Litecoinpool.org bit more better place when it has something that others doesnt have yet like this website embedded miner Cheesy

I had honor to betatest it Cheesy

and it works like a dream.

terrytibbs

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Activity: 560

Merit: 501

Quote from: pooler on November 29, 2011, 04:56:27 PM

The first version of the embeddable miner is ready.

I have written a short guide for webmasters interested in testing:
http://www.litecoinpool.org/embed

Looks great! I'll tinker around with it a little in a bit.

Add the ability to mine directly to a specific address and I'm all set. I understand that this will require some changes to your backend due to the way workers are handled, though.

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