Author

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1085. (Read 3917468 times)

hero member
Activity: 491
Merit: 500

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.

I do not need you donkey to tell me that i just own a fraction of all shares. A very tiny little fraction in fact.

Nevertheless I would like friedcat to answer my queries. I do agree that friedcat should not disclose any info that could be used by competitors.

But you are just a yay-sayer. I am not.
full member
Activity: 219
Merit: 100

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

He doesn't owe you anything.  Friedcat will provide information as information is available.  In addition, any information that he posts publicly is information that the competition can use during their planning and strategy.

Also, I assure you that there are a lot of people both reading and responding here that have a lot more shares than you.  So get off your high horse and stop making demands.  You think YOU own a lot of shares?  Try the 240,000 that Friedcat & co owns.  It is far more important for HIM to make good decisions and bring hashpower online, and be accountable to himself, than it is for him to answer to you.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
You can't kill math.
I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?

Something wanted is not something owed.

Let's talk about shares and reality.

He doesn't owe anything until the majority of share holders agree upon it. You would have to be a majority holder or there be a petition. Otherwise, any information divulged is courtesy on his part.

Petitioning for more information may seem crazy and that information should be obvious, but in reality it seems the information out there and friedcat himself are satisfactory. Thus, why would one go through the action to do work that is not in demand?
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
This isn't a hedge at all, but diversifying after a large run up.  This happens to be a popular topic currently at The Motley Fool in the 3D, Tesla and Netflix forums, and here was a post someone there pointed out. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/02/01/the-greatest-secret-of-all.aspx

Now I hold ASICMINER and bASIC-MINNING as well as MININGCO.ETF to spread my exposure out, but I have no plans of selling anything, my ASICMINER shares are only up about 200%, so far from what many others have in gains.  Anyway, you have a couple of possible outcomes, you took some money off the table and put that to work in something else, for you to actually be right, not only does bASIC-MINNING have to rise, but it has to rise faster than ACISMINER, which you feel is going to pull back, only time will tell, but betting against momentum is not a good bet.

Yes of course, ASICMINER is the most profitable. But what if something very bad happens to ASICMINER? I don't want to lose 100% if that happens. Neither do you, so you spread your exposure out as you say. And so did I. Maybe "hedging" is not the right word, maybe it's just diversifying, call it whatever you want.

I did some research among the other mining securities on the market, and BASIC-MINING appeared to be the most promising investment, given the imminent shipping of AVALON batch #2, and #3 coming probably just 1-2 month behind. I was already holding some shares of them in the past, and managed to sell them with a profit, to buy more AM shares on the rise. There are nice dividends coming in a few days with the first AVALON shipment, it will be interesting to compare the 30d yield with AM's.

There are other securities for batch #3 but I think BASIC-MINING is currently the only with a pending delivery from batch #2, and once the delivery has been confirmed I expect to see the stock price rise at least 10%-20%. If you know better investments in BTC that are *not* ASICMINER (for those who want to diversify like me), I would like to hear about them too.
hero member
Activity: 491
Merit: 500

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.

I do not harrass friedcat at all. I have read it all. His work is unbelievably amazing. I could not be more thankful for his awesome work.
My point is that at this scale he owes us a bit more than a few lines of update a week.

How many shares do you own that you think you are enabled to speak up here?
full member
Activity: 177
Merit: 100
Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878



Friedcat does not care if you sell your shares. If you didnt get that, you shouldnt be invested at all!!! I suggest you read a little more.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878



Even public companies do not provide weekly updates, they give quarterly reports.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.


Dude, I don't know if you are an early stage investor or not - you don't sound like it. I'm not either, btw. But I have read everything friedcat has ever written on this forum. Go and read it and you'll know why the early stage investors don't harass him for information.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
At the risk of turning this into the AM speculation thread, the large volume from auctions this week is I suspect causing a lot of volatility to the AM-PT price. A couple of times I've considered whether doing a quick bit of arbitrage selling some PTs to participate in the auctions would be a good idea, then the share price wiggles in the opposite direction to what I think it will do next. Meh, I'm too old and not smart enough to be a day trader.

:grabs bag of popcorn to watch Wink
hero member
Activity: 491
Merit: 500
Dear friedcat,

I do appreciate all your work but please answer the following:

Where are we hashing and at what rate atm? If solo, please explain what is going on.

How are the future deployment plans progressing? You promised a lot per week. What is going on, please?

How many Blades were sold? How many USB thingies were sold?

Why are your "updates" not answering questions everybody would like to be answered (no rocket science)?

You are running a billion company that a lot of people are trusting in (incl. myself).

Where are the financial statements you had promised??

At this scale you HAVE TO provide financial data or people will jump off.

I really do not understand how you think a two-liner is sufficient as a weekly update.

Also I do not understand how other shareholders shut up all the time, and do not ask for more.

I myself have a considerable amount invested in ASICMINER. If this attitude of ASICMINER continues, I will sell it all off.

vortex1878

hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Exactly. You would need complementary securities to diversify. Current reality is, there is none. Try putting your BTC in these other mining bonds or whatever. You could either just invest them in lollipops.

full member
Activity: 177
Merit: 100
I think ASICMINER is the greatest Bitcoin investment at the moment, but I also think that the prices are too high right now to invest more than a couple of shares with some risk.

About hedging, shareholders can do it on their own with other ASIC companies. I sold about 1/4 of my shares very high yesterday to hedge the risk and buy BASIC-MINING shares with the proceeds. They have an AVALON batch 2 pending delivery and another batch 3 order on the way so I think if you are looking of another mining security with a good potential, that is not overvalued right now, it is worth making it some % of your portofolio on btct.co. And there are others, too.

Anyway, it's really nice to see that stock price above 2, and I will hold most of my shares for sure. I just wouldn't buy more at the current price. But I wouldn't call you silly if you did Wink

Agree with hedging.  To build on what you said, here is another one of many ways of hedging.  That is to write covered calls at BTC-TC.  A covered call will reduce your purchase cost, therefore reducing your capital at risk.  Hedging partially.

Another way of hedging is to figure out ASICminer stock beta, and purchase a security that has a beta value completely opposite of ASICminer share.  Suppose ASICminer share has beta of 1 in relation to BTC/USD, then purchase a security of -1 will complete the hedging.

Hedging is done when you achieve a beta neutral status or a net beta equals zero in regards to a basket of securities.  With beta neutral, the only way *not* to profit is having a static market.  A static market is no shares changed hands and no share price movement.  Static market is impossible given BTC's volatility.

"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

You are hedging by selling shares in an immensely profitable company, that is light years ahead of its competition. For shares in a company that have  no significant asic hardware yet, with a risk profile 10X higher than AM, and P/E 10 times lower than AM?

Exactly. You would need complementary securities to diversify. Current reality is, there is none. Try putting your BTC in these other mining bonds or whatever. You could either just invest them in lollipops.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
I think ASICMINER is the greatest Bitcoin investment at the moment, but I also think that the prices are too high right now to invest more than a couple of shares with some risk.

About hedging, shareholders can do it on their own with other ASIC companies. I sold about 1/4 of my shares very high yesterday to hedge the risk and buy BASIC-MINING shares with the proceeds. They have an AVALON batch 2 pending delivery and another batch 3 order on the way so I think if you are looking of another mining security with a good potential, that is not overvalued right now, it is worth making it some % of your portofolio on btct.co. And there are others, too.

Anyway, it's really nice to see that stock price above 2, and I will hold most of my shares for sure. I just wouldn't buy more at the current price. But I wouldn't call you silly if you did Wink

Agree with hedging.  To build on what you said, here is another one of many ways of hedging.  That is to write covered calls at BTC-TC.  A covered call will reduce your purchase cost, therefore reducing your capital at risk.  Hedging partially.

Another way of hedging is to figure out ASICminer stock beta, and purchase a security that has a beta value completely opposite of ASICminer share.  Suppose ASICminer share has beta of 1 in relation to BTC/USD, then purchase a security of -1 will complete the hedging.

Hedging is done when you achieve a beta neutral status or a net beta equals zero in regards to a basket of securities.  With beta neutral, the only way *not* to profit is having a static market.  A static market is no shares changed hands and no share price movement.  Static market is impossible given BTC's volatility.

"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

You are hedging by selling shares in an immensely profitable company, that is light years ahead of its competition. For shares in a company that have  no significant asic hardware yet, with a risk profile 10X higher than AM, and P/E 10 times lower than AM?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.


Would someone reword/explain to me what did he mean? I am slightly lost at the issue and his explanation.


It means AM are long on Bitcoin. Whatever BTC they can't reinvest themselves they will return to shareholders as dividends. They see any other course of action as lowering returns.

If shareholders want to go long as well they can reinvest dividends. If they want hedging or diversification they can do that too. AM won't tell you what to do.
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.


Would someone reword/explain to me what did he mean? I am slightly lost at the issue and his explanation.
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
I want ASICMiner to hedge their production buy selling futures contracts against the bitcoin-fiat exchange rate.

Can a futures market be established in china or hong kong?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but perhaps you haven't explained your concern adequately.  Smiley

When their markup on product is so high, and the likely direction of the exchange rate long-term is positive, what would this achieve?

I think if the exchange rate of btc:usd tumbled all that would happen is AM would sell loads more hardware as it would be a no-brainer for the GPU crowd to switch. They might even jack the prices up a bit more.

I'll also add that since AM doesn't actually hold any spare BTC other than what they need to sell for operations, nor are they engaged in the practice of trading/selling btc, but rather distribute the vast majority of the mined coins directly to their shareholders, that realistically, they have nothing to hedge.

If shareholders in AM want to hedge against the value of their future earnings dropping, they are free to do so, but as it stands, the attractiveness of an investment in AM is in a pure play btc asset.

If you want an asset that tends to move inversely to the direction of usd/btc, take a look at something like sdice.

I'll also add for those claiming that spreading your money around in different mining stocks is hedging, it isn't. That's called diversification within a sector, and provides no hedging whatsoever.

-helixone
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
I want ASICMiner to hedge their production buy selling futures contracts against the bitcoin-fiat exchange rate.

Can a futures market be established in china or hong kong?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but perhaps you haven't explained your concern adequately.  Smiley

When their markup on product is so high, and the likely direction of the exchange rate long-term is positive, what would this achieve?

I think if the exchange rate of btc:usd tumbled all that would happen is AM would sell loads more hardware as it would be a no-brainer for the GPU crowd to switch. They might even jack the prices up a bit more.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1008
The concept of course is completely bs. I will not call names but some "Hero" posters here (especially in this thread) are a joke.

Sheesh, it's only an automatically assigned title based on number of posts. If it was renamed to "OAP Member" to be more in fitting with the previous titles (Jr, Sr) would that make you feel better? Get over it Tongue

OAP? obscense average posts? *smirk*

how about "member needs a life?"
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
I want ASICMiner to hedge their production buy selling futures contracts against the bitcoin-fiat exchange rate.

Can a futures market be established in china or hong kong?

A good idea to bring in more options and financial products to table.

There is serious risk, however, with futures contracts.

With futures contracts, one can create derivatives, and then create credit default swaps.  These are very potent and powerful tools to manipulate Bitcoin values to fiat currency rate.  We can't ever escape the fact we have to exchange Bitcoin to fiat currency to pay for electricity, product shipping, airplane tickets for bitcoin conference, etc.

Futures contracts allow leverage, and allow relatively few people to manipulate quantifiable "things".  The ASICminer share price is quantified with numbers.  BTC/USD exchange rate is quantified with number.  

Futures plus thinly traded market equals easy manipulation.

all I read was powerful, potent and leverage. What was your concern exactly?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
The concept of course is completely bs. I will not call names but some "Hero" posters here (especially in this thread) are a joke.

Sheesh, it's only an automatically assigned title based on number of posts. If it was renamed to "OAP Member" to be more in fitting with the previous titles (Jr, Sr) would that make you feel better? Get over it Tongue
Jump to: