Topic: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile - page 3. (Read 18511 times)

Well, every video/image that was so far released by Ukraine and picked up by the Western MSM, were proven to be fake, or were at least raising quite big questions. Remember that before, there was an image of supposedly "Russian" BUK moving to Ukraine, which, using it's side-number, turned out to be a part of a Ukrainian division from Driepropetrovsk.

In other news, a Dutch forensic scientist, who mentioned some of the information pertaining the inquiry to his students, was fired:

Dutch expert fired after showing MH17 victim photos in public lecture
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/24/dutch-expert-fired-after-showing-mh17-victim-photos-in-public-lecture

Not enough people have questioned the very poor quality images and videos that were force fed to the world at the beginning of this saga.

Debunk those images such as the Paris Match "photos" and there is no case against Russia or separatists but what is even more worrying is that if those images and videos are proved fake then due to the rapid timeframe of them appearing that begs the question of were they prepared in advance of a premeditated attack on a civilian airliner?

For instance Paris Match announced their journalists were on hand to capture the photograph of the BUK on it's way from Donetsk.

In my opinion the Paris Match photos are video grabs from a dash cam , probably of the Volvo pulling a digger or some other machine and then the BUK was badly photoshopped on hence the weird angle of the BUK, it appears to be perched up on it's front wheels whilst the tractor unit is flat to the road.
http://i.imgur.com/bmojw2f.jpg

The video that grab was taken from appears to be the same size and aspect ratio that would fit with Paris Match photos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHj4nltPf5U

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-30/did-reuters-falsify-testimony-mh-17-crash-witness

It seems witnesses can't make up their mind where the missile was fired from.  I personally will just ignore what this guy says now, it was the Ukrainians, no the rebels, no the Ukrainians.. He seems to be saying whatever the reporter asking at the time wants to hear.

Thanks. I also see that a lot of Ukrainian sites have jumped onto this article as hungry wolves, and present it as if it's the final conlcusion.

Funnily, the article actually contradicts itself:


And he found only a few nondescript metal bits, and none were wound in the bodies of the pilots and the passengers, who should have been peppered with them.



Hmm... And they are still not interested in questioning of pilot Voloshin or in finding the classified ACT tapes that went missing hours after the shoot-down from Dniepropetrovsk. Apparently not every source can be considered as "every source".

Link:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/evidence-proving-flight-mh-17-was-taken-down-buk-missile

Um, no. The investigation should not be hampered, and one of the prime suspects should not have a veto right to whether to publish the results, in complete breech of all ICAO aircrash investigation procedures.
It may still turn out that one would need to punish USA...

I keep a thread on Crimea.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494128.960
It was Russia, is Russia and will be Russia.

And people are talking about it, if you know where to look:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/obamas-double-standard-on-russia-he-attacks-russia-then-condemns-putin-for-defending-russia-from-his-attack

It makes me sick to my stomach to see this issue abandoned. Is this how we treat terrorism, with total absence of repercussions???
I don't care who did it, both Ukraine and Russia should be punished, until it is clear who was responsible.

By the way, what happened to Crimea? So it's Russia now? No one is talking about it anymore...

A Dutch journalist from RTL tried to make a front-line by postulating that he managed to get hold of a fragment of the plane and that "according to experts" it show that it  was shot down by BUK.
In response to this rubbish, the Dutch security council issued an official denial, saying that the investigation is ongoing.
http://ria.ru/mh17/20150319/1053506462.html

All true. The point is that nobody cares. Very sad.

It just a big whitewash by the US. Of course Ukraine shot-down the plane, everyone knows but the media will never tell the truth.

Democracy defined: Lie, blame others, start wars, strong-arm other countries, rewrite laws to suit your own needs, while crying manifest destiny!

There was an interesting event a Holland, described by a Western author of a MH-17 book as a PR-stunt.
Journalists were allowed to see the remains of the Boeing. They were led into 2 hangars, and shown the debris. Three discrepancies hit the eye:

1. The debris were stored haphazardly about the hangar. If there was an ongoing investigation, there would have been an  outline of the Boeing drawn on the floor, and the fragments would have been placed according to their origin so as to reconstruct the plane.
2. Journalists were told that they see ALL the fragments of the plane. Meanwhile, another group of Russian TV journalists were at the crash site at the very same time and showed that many large fragments and personal belongings were left behind under the open sky.
3. Journalists were told that some of the fragments were off-limits and must not be filmed under any circumstance.

Let's also remember that the only country that release all the information that it had about the situation in the Ukrainian airspace is still Russia. USA and Ukraine itself are keeping mum, not releasing the information. And the fighter pilot Voloshin still hasn't been questioned by the investigators.

Sneaky anti-Russian EU-Parliament resolution:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P8-TA-2015-0011+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN


Oh, yeah? Right, we know who was creating obstacles (Kiev, Washington, Amsterdam), and who was providing all the information and assistance (Donetsk, Moscow)

boy and I remember a time when people thought proxy wars were over.

West has forgotten MH17 Ukraine crash probe – Lavrov
http://rt.com/news/221759-lavrov-ukraine-plane-crash/

Flight MH17 - Searching for the truth



    On July 17th Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down over Eastern Ukraine. All 298 passengers died. Back in the middle of June, the Nato showed pictures of Russian tanks in the city of Snizhne in Eastern Ukraine. The German Bundeswehr and Nato know that Russian tanks do not move through enemy territory without the protection of BUK missile systems. Therefore, the flight altitude of ordinary planes was essentially a war zone since the middle of June. According to the CORRECT!V investigation, the German government and all other Nato countries would have had to warn the airlines not to fly across Eastern Ukraine. The Dutch government already confirmed our investigation. The German government still rejects it.
    CORRECT!V talked to witnesses of the downing of Flight MH17 in Eastern Ukraine. In a complex investigation in Vienna, the Netherlands, Ukraine, and Russia, we talked to military experts, warlords of the separatists, former BUK engineers and former soldiers of the 53rd Air Defense Brigade. All of them confirm: The separatists were not able to use such a complex missile system. Therefore, only Russian officers could have given the order to down Flight MH17.
    On July 17th a lot of pictures and videos were taken of the BUK missile system in the part of Eastern Ukraine that was controlled by separatists. The international investigative team Bellingcat identified the BUK as part of the Russian 53rd Air Defense Brigade. CORRECT!V checked the locations of the pictures and followed the path the Russian BUK took.
    CORRECT!V is publishing this investigation in cooperation with the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel and the Dutch daily newspaper Algemeen Dagblad.

Full article:

https://mh17.correctiv.org/english/

But he has. If you actually read/listened to what Russian Investigative Committee was saying, his information strengthened the evidence that IC already collected from before. To beat a lie detector, you need to have special training, and even then the bluff may be called.

PS: A perspective on events. In the light of constant anti-Russian propaganda and baseless/factless accusations, Russia has to be very careful when presenting its evidence. If presented evidence does not hold, you can just imagine the amount of howling in the West that will ensue. By this virtue, you can actually be pretty sure that is IC presents something to the public as verified evidence, it is, in fact, verified from various sources and is correct. The reaction of Kiev is also indicative of this. Why else would Kiev outright deny Voloshin's existence? If you sat that lie detector can be easily fooled, why would Kiev deny Voloshin be questioned on lie detector - he would, by your logic - be able to prove his innocence and ridicule Russia in no time. Or would he? Also, the European reaction. If you are serious about an investigation, you would pursue any leads that may shed light on the events. By indicating that this lead is not interesting to the European investigators, they thus show that they are after pursuing only one line of enquiry - the one that would achieve the preset goal of vilifying Russia.

I personally would not consider him to be credible (nor would I consider that "media" outlet to be credible). Anyone can claim they witnessed something and it is not difficult to beat a lie detector. The witness has not provided any actual evidence to backup his claims (unlike Snowden) nor did he give anything up to make such claims (also unlike Snowden)

Ukraine’s Snowden: Whistleblower confirms MH17 was shot down by Ukraine
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/ukraines-snowden-whistleblower-confirms-mh17-was-shot-down-by-ukraine/


The above is a more detailed analysis of the events of the past days, that got completely ignored by the Western MSM.

Incidentally, Russian Investigative Committee offers to question Pilot Voloshin on lie detector, which should, if he is innocent, remove any suspicions off him. Kiev denies. Initially, Kiev also denied that Voloshin even existed, but had to revise their stance, when it was pointed out that Poroshenko gave him Medal For Courage “for heroism in defending Ukraine” two days after the shoot-down.

Sigh.. I wonder how many of these we're going to have.

2014 was a bad year if we look only at commercial airline accidents 

I really hope this isn't another Malaysia flight 370 situation again.
AirAsia Flight QZ 8501 Goes Missing - Newsweek
www.newsweek.com/airasia-flight-goes-missing-295