Topic: Martin Armstrong Discussion - page 193. (Read 647054 times)

Antonopolus is a salesmen/motivational speaker/pump and dumper/some guy that doesn't know anarchy is just a temporary power vacuum inevitably replaced by a strongman, not god.  

He's flat out wrong about cryptocurrency being a store of value.  If nobody wants to buy bitcoins at a specific interval in time, the cost of production will crater because bitcoin cost of production is SELF REFERENCING based on it's own demand, unlike gold and silver.  For example, if nobody wants to buy silver eagles during the month of June, it doesn't matter; cost of production to bring the stuff out of the ground doesn't change even if 0 people buy it during that period.  This is what allows metals to be a store of value.  It's a non-recursive system.

The economics of cryptocurrency are recursive.  If it does not become the unit of account of something, there's literally nothing whatsoever to hold it up and the price can swing from $2 to $2000 like a sine wave over and over.  This is why cryptocurrency - something that doesn't even exist except in people's imaginations - can never compete with gold and silver as a store of value (the base of Exter's pyramid).  The invisible hand of the market would NEVER value bitcoin higher than the noble metals because it's 100% objectively a far worse store of value; more like incapable of being a store of value.

Just like the US dollar, bitcoin is a currency, not money.  It's not a real commodity, nor is it a commodity currency by extension.


IF? did you say "if"? LOL.  It's pretty much a given cryptocurrency will either be completely co-opted by the state or regulated into the ground where it's just as cumbersome to use as fiat.  I believe there's laws in the US where you're required to use a bank to transfer funds if moving an amount of cash over $10,000 because they want to force you to make some type of money trail, yet people are breaking statutes like that in cryptocurrency every day.  The government is obviously not going to stay hands-off on that situation forever.  Govt will create a fixed address alias system wrapper that goes around bitcoin and force everyone to use it or be considered a criminal launderer.  This is how they will co-opt it.

Markets are organisms looking for technological breakthroughs to create the next boom. If we play our cards right blockchain can help avoid big bang kind of like how internet helped us get here after dot com burst. Blockchain is the next biggest thing since internet.

If regulation comes in the way.. look out below.

Good Luck to us all then if SHTF happens soon.  I am traveling, so that would be a big "ruh-roh" for me and my wife.

Going to try to prepay for more, an d load up more CA$H (and BTC is I can find a BTC ATM here).

For anyone interested, I just started reading the scary "Thieves Emporium" series I saw mentioned at ZH a few times.  Google that title and The Daily Bell for free version (at least up to Part 13 where I just left off).  Scary dystopian piece, lots of good suggestions re computer security, etc.

Money is subjective and hov moe uoa are not new concepts.. they are traditionally used to define money. In this way you can compare apples to apples and see how it stacks up against other forms of money. Yes I agree I will diverisify into gold after gold gets a little cheaper and I sense that shtf moment is near. But my crypto holdings will be much larger.

I think it is a mistake to take any single person's view on any issue important to you.  Whether BTC or gold.  Or anything else in with an uncertain future (hey, I am just trying to get info on the D.C. shooting).

I'm just a 61 year old guy who has been trying to keep up with the markets, etc.

Did I ever mention that DIVERSIFICATION looks to be the way to go?  

https://youtu.be/MxIrc1rxhyI

Andreas on engineering money. To finally put r0achs argument to rest so he can slither away under the fridge.

I prefer silver, but anyways, Anonymint is always rehashing the Armstrong view that gold and silver are a hedge against government.  Metals are just as much front running the government since their plan of last resort is always revaluing metals as a kind of way of printing to the moon with far less chance of Zimbabwe wheelbarrow hyperinflation wiping out the system.

Also, if you look at volume numbers, it appears people in the west only buy metals when they are skyrocketing, while people in Asia buy them when they're low, so that explains what you see there.  As for Sidhujag, he's pretty much hopeless along with the rest of the Ethereum/Cryptocurrency cult members:

Gold doesnt offer medium of exchange that cryptocoins provide. Lets see how it stacks up if you start talking gold vs crypto as SOV/MOE/UOA. Hint it wont stack very well.

Disclaimer:  I'm here only forsake of knowledge / to better understand all views on bitcoin/crypto-currency etc.  At present I am not invested.

Just general comment:

Bank for International Settlements to my understanding is on top of the pyramid when it comes to moving money / exchanges etc.
Wiki: (BIS) is an international financial institution owned by central banks which "fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks". The BIS carries out its work through its meetings, programmes and through the Basel Process – hosting international groups pursuing global financial stability and facilitating their interaction. It also provides banking services, but only to central banks and other international organizations

Mass adoption by Central Banks is critical and for which they requires infrastructure at highest level to handle settlement functions of BIS.

But even with that as always it wont be 100% participation - as some nations will indeed shun crypto - because they know it will empower those at the very top to have more leverage than others.   I think that is major con to Crypto -- that sooner or later some entity will entity via BIS or other control -- empower itself with full control than others.

only close example i can think of is the ECOMM Vertical...   The poorest are the ones doing hard labour - in between are the Shopify Ecomm sites whom pay to the higher up...and further next up is likely the likes of GOOGLE etc.

And all Google has to do is raise its fees...to extract more....and also if they want -- remove restrict whomever they feel.

 

Warning!  Anecdotal evidence below only!  Take it for what it's worth (not much)!

None of the cryptos are gaining any traction in any of the places I have recently visited (Peru and now Italy).  OK, I have not been dealing with programmers (et al), as we are on vacation, but NO ONE has shown the least bit of interest, it's even worse than being in America and getting that vacant look when mentioning BTC to those who do not know it...

YES, there is a lot of money and a lot of powerful people pushing BTC, ETH and cryptos (blockchains).  But, it will not happen very fast, at least IMO.  Too many people don't have easy access to computers (or even want to).

Italy and Europe are experiencing hard times almost everyone here tells me.  And we are in relatively prosperous northern Italy.

Everyone is worrying more about holding a job, or getting one...  Not good.

*   *   *

@ r0ach and others who like gold.  I have not had time to dig around and see what is happening at "street level" here.  I do see some "Compro Oro" signs at stores, but not to the same degree as a few years ago when I saw them EVERYWHERE.

I read recently that in the USA that MANY have already sold all of their gold (family treasures, jewelry, etc.).  I do not know how true that is, nor if the same is happening here in Italy (or France, next stop).  Gold is held by very few in Peru (the SIXTH largest producer in the world, not even the Peruvian Central Bank holds much gold).

You're shilling for cryptocurrency page after page entirely for selfish reasons because you want to make a career out of it being a crapcoin developer.  Stop pretending you're Gandhi, you're not.  Gold and silver don't require "developers" since they already function perfectly fine out of the box, which is bad for you.  You're like a government employee trying to justify their existence.

...

Interesting take, contraband.  My *guess* is that the road to VR becoming THAT important will be more than 20 - 40 years.  Perhaps if Kurzweil is right about the Singularity, maybe sooner, but many of these VERY advanced technologies take longer than expected to take ("The Jetsons" and their flying cars).

One of your main points (I think?) is that we should all be as aware as possible to new technologies to take advantage of them and advance ourselves.

If i was in it for a pnd id be long gone trust me. I innovate and thats the main driver. Money is required but is secondary to making a difference. You on the other hand are inconsequential in any statement or regard for anything related to the movement to sound ideal money other than to serve as an example of who not to be like and what not to do.

 Btw gold has infinite supply theoretically and thats never good for its price.

This also means gold is not fungible

The "force of consensus" = Schelling point = gold and silver, of which there are only two, not 700 different cryptocurrencies with horrible distribution of which there will never be convergence on anything.  Cryptocurrency not only has no Schelling point, it has a...REVERSE Schelling point because you're incentivized to break off from bitcoin, buy a bunch of lower priced coins, then try to pump it higher (like Sidhujag).  Nature, "god", whoever, created a very small amount of noble metals so it's not really possible to do this with real money.

And I think you are committing the error of ignoratio elenchi but I am content to let the matter rest.
In regards to arguments of delusion and mind programming I would refer you to the following post.

The More Rational Model

Interesting analysis a few minor points of disagreement/nuance. I agree that collaboration is the solution but would argue it is not forced consensus but voluntary consensus that is the solution where ever growing transparency ensures honest participation. This disagreement traces back to our disagreement on the nature of progress I outlined my position on this in Cycles of Contention.

I also think it is a mistake to group the USA and Europe together into "the west" and similarly to group Japan and China together into "Asia". Culturally China is undergoing a transformation that will profoundly alter the country and set it on a path to future prosperity whereas Japan appears utterly locked into a medium term spiral of stagnation and decline.

See:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18308732

Similarly I would argue USA is in the process of slowly decoupling from Europe.

Bitcoin shows us what can be achieved when a a small group chooses to voluntarily cohere around and promote an external ideal in a verifiable and transparent manner.

There are greater and more powerful ideals then that of sound money.

This doesn't seem like a good hedge against government. Sure laws are laws and they are there to be (or not) followed, so you could hide your shit, but it's still there somewhere and they can find it.

If you hide a bitcoin wallet inside an encrypted hidden volume you can claim plausible deniability. So gold being a physical thing (that so many goldbugs love because "if you can't touch it then it's useless") is its greatest mistake.

Also have fun trying to cross any borders carrying gold. Tbh gold is useless in a post-encryption environment. Sure, there's a lot of problems that come with using something like bitcoin, but overall it beats gold as "a hedge against government" in my book.

A wise response is this.. "Segwit is a signal to the market that Litecoin is the leader in scaling & off-chain market & research. BTC imo wont see scaling. BTC will remain an immutable protocol for settlement. LTC will win scaling."  -I forgot