Topic: MicroStrategy Buys $250M in Bitcoin, Calling the Crypto ‘Superior to Cash’ - page 56. (Read 20736 times)

Yes, I think it will be like that, if waiting for a deep correction and a relatively affordable price is again impossible.  Yesterday was the perfect moment to buy at a low price.  Because today BTC has touched 51k USD again.  I am even more confused when a major correction occurs whether the current price is really a stable price.

I was very surprise about the amount of money MicroStrategy keeps committing into Bitcoin, I don't know who is helping them to do their trading but buying around this price shows something, they know the price can still go very high or they believe that their business model won't give the profit they get from Bitcoin. What I was told was that Institutional investors don't buy the top but they way things are now, they are likely to buy the top in this market

I was actually referring to the fact that whenever MS announces the purchase of BTC, the price drops significantly as has been the case now.  If someone says they are going to invest over $1 billion in BTC it should have a positive effect on the market, I find it strange that the exact opposite is happening.


Let's not go into conspiracy theories and assume what a company like Coinbase can or can't do - if we accept that all participants in the process play by the rules, that's probably the easiest way - we can't prove anything anyway.


Since Saylor helped Musk make almost $1 billion in a very short time, I guess a friend can return the favor and shake up the market a bit Musk is a very strange person, and when you look at the history of his tweets it's hard to tell what's going on in his head at some point - because how do you explain that a man who invests $1.5 billion in BTC says he thinks the price of that same BTC is too high...

Price goes up and price goes down, so what about buying on dips?

Regarding coinbase saving MS several million dollars, there is likely not an issue with that, whether it was waiving or lowering fees for a real BIG player.. seems normal kinds of business practices to attempt to attract BIGGER players.




Yes.. Saylor offered to help Musk in buying BTC.. and Musk seems to have agreed, but Musk is his own man, too.. so I doubt that Saylor can tell Musk how to tweet or the extent to which Musk should troll tweet or whatever Musk does with his tweets.


Saylor seems to be inclined to continue to use cashflow to buy BTC.. so whether he uses 100% of cashflow plus leverage or modifies his purchases to something more "reasonable," Saylor does not seem to have that kind of personality... so maybe when BTC price goes up, he might cut back a bit on his acquisitions in terms of recognizing the short term unsustainability of the price, but Saylor seems to be a bit more bullish than a lot of us regular bulls - even accounting for the relativity of his cashflow.. .. but maybe he is not much different from Elwar in 2016 when Elwar sold his house and used the proceeds to buy bitcoin.. Elwar seemed a bit nutso to many of us, but it still payed off quite well... One of the thing that differentiates Saylor is that Saylor has ongoing cashflow that may not be able to completely replace either the bitcoin purchases that he made or the leveraging that he has done along the way, but Saylor should be able to service the various debts without a problem from existing cashflow - absent his company going to shit in terms of cashflow - which can never be ruled out completely.

If MicroStrategy and other institutional Investors continue to buy Bitcoin in thousands like they are doing atm, prolly the price as things stand at the moment could be considered 'cheap' in relation to what the price could be in as many months. I think that's the very reason why MSG and other investors are harnessing every little opportunity that presents itself via corrections in price to acquire more Bitcoins and add to their stash, we could have a somewhat unbelievable BTC price come the end of the year, I think hodl and accumulating more during a correction is absolutely worth it.

It seemed plausible that they were working together on their investment in Crypto.  At a very high price, the microstrategy buys BTC and makes the market go up again.  What's the reason?  the movements of these rich people make me confused as a dime player. The price of BTC during this year has multiplied many times and is going to the moon.  Until I couldn't afford it, huft I thought BTC would be corrected yesterday so that it can be bought at a cheap price.  It was only for a moment.

Interesting how MicroStrategy always (or so it seems to me) invests in BTC when a correction occurs - I wonder if there are any behind-the-scenes games, given that Coinbase boasted in the past how they save MS several million dollars? Who knows, maybe Musk and Saylor are working together now - at least the tweets are free to post

I'm just wondering if there's any amount of BTC that will satisfy Michael Saylor at some point, so he'll say the mission is done - given that it has quite approached the amount of as much as 100 000 BTC which is a very nice round figure, at least when it comes to calculating how much all the BTC is worth at some point

This convertible bond offering is absolutely insane.  Don't know how else to put it.  I don't get people who buy it.  Imagine bitcoin crashes, all you have is an unsecured debt of some company that committed accounting fraud in the 90s, or converted into shares of such a company.  I'd rather just own bitcoin no ?

Microstrategy bought the Bitcoin with the proceeds of their last bond sales:



https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1364561973363490817?s=21


Link to official Statement:
MicroStrategy Acquires Additional 19,452 Bitcoins for $1.026 Billion


Another 19,000 Bitcoin in the MSTR treasury!

Spreadsheet updated.

Those times are way over now, personally speaking. I don't talk bitcoin in public anymore as I've spent too much time explaining bitcoin to my masses and I realized that I had to push the IF you don't get it I don't have the time to explain it to you. The very few who listened to me now enjoy a much more relaxed life for sure  I wanted nothing from him really, I don't care It was a memory that came to my mind reading fillippone's post.

You wanted him to call you and apologize for how stupid he was and for how smart you were in 2016.. once it was unambiguously shown...   Do people really do that?  Not too common, but some people will admit if they are confronted about how surprised they are regarding a direction that happened that was outside of their previous expectactions.

 

For many of us longer term BTC accumulators and HODLers, we might be surprised somewhat in terms of either how fast such things seem to be happening or the quantity that they are happening, but we are not really surprised in terms of it actually happening, so we do not have to change too many things in our ways of thinking.  No coiner bitcoin naysayers have to like shake their heads a few times and really attempt to reset their framework, if they are being honest with themselves.  We have a lot of them still acting like retards and resorting to stupid-ass frameworks of describing bitcoin as a bubble and overly priced and proclaiming weird anomalies including putting Elon and Michael into such categories...

Those kinds of ongoing nocoiner  naysayers are going to continue to get screwed because they are likely to get front-run the fuck out of in terms of failing/refusing to take some kind of "what-if?" stake in bitcoin that might protect them way better than sitting back, waiting and seeing without taking any stake in bitcoin.  Difficult to protect people from themselves, even if you may well be open to sharing information with them, many still continue in their reluctancies to act in any kind of meaningful way to establishing a bitcoin stake.. even if it could take them 5 years or more of DCA, buying on dips and a combination to build such meaningful stake.


Of course, depends on your stash, but I certainly do not consider selling BTC as a means to buy back at a cheaper price in order to get more BTC - even though I do end up buying back at a cheaper price on a  regular basis, but overall, especially when BTC goes from a run from $10k to $57k for example, it seems to be best to have a selling of BTC methodology that allows you to NOT give any shits about if the BTC price goes back down or NOT.  Of course, if you are regretting whatever BTC that you sold on the way from $10k to $57k for example, then you were neither financially nor psychologically prepared for such BTC sales and you should not have done them.



Is it really necessary to have any certain amount of BTC locked?  Let's say for example in early 2016, when you registered your account in this forum, you created some BTC investment goals for yourself and you largely wanted to achieve such goals that would involve accumulated BTC and reaching accumulation targets by the end of 2016 or early 2017.

I have no idea of your personal circumstances, but since BTC is quite volatile (and has shown itself through its history to be quite volatile), you may have reached your BTC accumulation targets by early 2017, but still continued to invest in BTC and buy on dips and various kinds of ongoing BTC accumulation that ends up causing you to have become somewhat overinvested in BTC by mid -2020 (before our current exponential BTC price rise and also before Michael Saylor figured out bitcoin.. hahahahhahaha)..

so, yeah, with more than a 4-year investment timeline that ended up proceeding someone like Michael Saylor (who you did not really have any clue over those previous 4 years that such a character would come on the BTC scene, even though it surely was NOT out of the realms of possible expectations of something that could have happened), you could have ended up being somewhat over invested in BTC and also the facts of the matter would have ended up being that you front run folks like Michael Saylor and the other BIGGER player types who are quite likely (we already see a lot of evidence of this) going to be coming into the BTC space in the coming years.

So then part of my point is that in a scenario of your having had over-invested in BTC (which sure I understand that it might not have ended up happening with you specifically but you could likely imagine scenarios in which it happened with other people in similar - or slightly different shoes from you) creates some justification to shave some BTC off along the way UPpity at various BTC price points that they may have already established in advance.



One of the better ways to tell a joke is to say it with a straight face even when exaggerating, but we still have to take some of your ideas somewhat literal, too.. and never selling BTC does not seem realistic, especially for anyone who may have been purposefully accumulating along the way, and there comes a point in which selling some will make way more sense than hoarding it... but hey.. plan what you like and do what you like... but we are still in a public thread, and for that reason, it seems prudent for guys like me to respond and suggest how silly, impractical and just weird such a position would be for the vast majority of normies, and even more weird for any kind of normie who had accumulated a decent amount of BTC stash way before the BTC price reaches $1million per satoshi, even presuming that such a price were reachable in our lifetimes..



I'm willing to try to get back on track, too.  Sorry if I exacerbated the deviation from this topic, in some of the discussions about what personally to do or personal BTC portfolio management considerations, too. even though tangentially, where the price might go does also relate to actions like Michael Saylor/Microstrategies and the possible contagiousness of such BIG PLAYER strategies in terms of how those strategies might affect personal strategies and how to manage your BTC portfolio based on such strategies of BIGGER players.

I don't find my statements contradict between them. To trade BTC, meaning that you have to sell at some point and then rebuy to get profit, don't block me from having an amount locked until I die (since this is certain to happen before BTC hit $800mil...) It's obvious that I was exaggerated for the $1mil per sat just to show that there is no limitation for BTC, at least for me.

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Doesn't have to be hyperinflation for something to have a crazy price in order to get it nor to drag other products with it. So theoretically speaking, if tomorrow the next sell order in any exchange is $8mil or 10 - 20 and so on, then anyone that wants to buy will have to pay $8mil. Simple as that. (I know that this sounds like a sci-fi movie scenario but... who knows? )


+1mil on this!


You are right and my apologies about it.

A true bitcoiner has low time preferences:
Don’t spend in silly things today, hodl, and save for later.
Try to explain bitcoin to a nocoiner, be called a fool, then being recognised right years later.
Delayed satisfactions are way better than immediate ones.

I don't know if this got explained well but we are talking about some billions (B) $ buys at market prices, insane to say to least. I mean who'd have thought that, say, 5 years ago.
I remember I was with a colleague of mine probably in 2016 when I was working for my previous company and I was discussing bitcoin's upside potential. I remember I kind of used what are now the main planB's points I and was labelled a fool.
I remember specifically mentioning that I wanted to be called by him when companies would have started thinking of bitcoin in terms of reserve asset (2016).
Never got a single call from him

I will have my two cents in this very OT statement.
When it was designed Satoshi and Hal had in mind that if ever BTC went to one million dollar, then a satoshi would be one cent, the minimum needed unit of account.
So for sure one satoshi can get to one million dollars, but I guess this would imply:

• a hyperinflation in dollars, so if one satoshi is ne million dollars, how much would cost a liter of milk? I guess many billions dollars to say the least.
• following an hyperinflation for practical reason there is a redejonination in the currency, slashing a few zeros. For this you will never get to an actual quote of one million dollar per satoshi in current money (‘at be expressed in today’s money).

Now please don’t derail this thread too much!

Well then, I am glad that you were not referring to that kind of thing because there has been a lot of hype about those various kinds of bullshit products, even in the bitcoin space, and it seems to me that one of the aspects about bitcoin is that it was already designed in such a way that it is quite likely to appreciate in value in comparison to other kinds of assets whether we are referring to fiat or possibly various kinds of harder assets that exist.

So, if you establish a decent enough BTC stash, and maybe in 5, 10 or 20 years, 1 BTC will be considered as a sufficient enough stash (even some people may already consider 1 BTC to be a sufficient enough stash).... Anyhow, if your BTC stash is sufficient, then there might not really be much if any problem for a lot of folks to shave off a bit of it here and there along the way, especially if they are running out of cash flow in other kinds of cash that they might choose to liquidate first... but sure, some people might already have sufficient amounts of cashflow and assets that they can draw on to cash out those inferior assets before even touching their BTC stash, and I understand those kinds of motivations if you are having considerations in that direction, condoras.



Seems more practical, from my point of view, to manage your stash a bit better, which would include shaving off some.. but I understand that opinions are going to differ in this regard.. and surely, selling less BTC seems to be more justifiable if you continue to have a certain amount of assurance of ongoing fiat cash flow or the value of other assets continue to flow to you which causes you little to no problems in being able to assure whatever standard of living that you expect to carry out currently and in future years.



These statements seem to contradict or to be in tension with your earlier statements about not selling any BTC until they are equal to $1million to one satoshi.. and sure maybe there are some framing and context issues, but I find some of these assertions  to be a wee bit confusing, mostly because they seem to be contradicting one another to some degree.


I am not sure.  Of course, there would be a combination of considerations that any business such as an exchange would have to go through, and one would be regarding what is profitable and another would be some of the increasing constraints that might come from changes in the regulatory environment and trying to figure out the extent that they are compliant or are able to work with various regulatory constraints that vary based on jurisdictions but also questions regarding how some countries may engage in regulatory overreach - even if some exchanges might be trying to avoid certain jurisdictions (maybe the USA is a BIG one in terms of those kinds of considerations).  And, yeah there might be some reputational concerns that exchanges have, too.. because if they deviate too far from certain community expectations, they might experience some backlash from customers, too.

I'm not in favor of using BTC as collateral for any kind/ type of third-party services because of the risks involved, which in some cases are huge (even if ppl don't realize them).
Neither I'm the type of guy who will hodl BTC just to hold them and make some kind of show-off.
I trade every day in more than 4 exchanges regularly for the last 3-4 years now, so "selling" and "buying" is my routine and I believe that if you are focused and not impulsive, you will benefit a lot more over time.
Anyways, the thing is that I truly believe that they want to restrain BTC in their own playground.

Of course, seems a bit much from my perspective, but I have already said my piece about that way of framing the matter. 

By the way, I do understand that there are some folks who believe it might be better to never sell their BTC and to engage in various kinds of usage of BTC as collateral, and in principle, I don't have too many problem with such ideas, even though hopefully people are considering the extent that they might engage in some services that put their BTC too much at risk in terms of third party risk blah blah blah.. and there may be more prudent practices to sell a bit of BTC.. depending on personal circumstances rather than engaging in some of the bullshit (and possible scams) collateral arrangements.

These companies who bought bitcoin way early are the ones reaping the benefits and all, we get to enjoy the ride too which ia not so bad. Still, ai'm not wholly bought out with the fact that there are a growing amount of whales in the market that can literally shift the tide with one tap or click. Kinda scary if you ask me especially when we consider the fact that they are only growing in numbers.

You say it better than I can even imagine man, so yes you are right and couldn't explain better my position.
OFC a lot of people struggle and put their faith, knowledge, time, and money to make BTC what it is now, and even if Satoshi starts it without them BTC will never be in this place and I don't mean the price of it. My thanks go to all of them (including you) who believe in it without having in their mind to cut off all the others, the plan that this "elite" group set in motion.

Sorry for the tone, it might sound too aggressive but I'm "tired" to hear that some billionaire or a fund buys/ invest in BTC now. I just don't bite this, all of a sudden, BTC mania from their circle. They don't want the freedom that BTC offer, they want the exclusivity of something that made for all and that simply pisses is me off.
As for the price, it's sure that I get the same benefit (or maybe more) that BTC runs like crazy and I would be a liar to say that I don't enjoy this rally or that I don't sell BTC waiting to get $1mil per sat. I said it in an exaggerated tone, to show that 1) there are people that see this coming from the time that meets with bitcoin and 2) they don't have to sell. Personally, I still believe that we haven't seen the limit of BTC but I'm a romantic fool...


This sentence finds me absolutely agree.

P.S: I will still HODL BTC until 1 sat is equal to $1mil...