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Topic: Mining , still worth it? - page 24. (Read 7327 times)

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1011
March 13, 2018, 12:57:23 AM
#94
Mining may continue to be "profitable" but not by the same metric people have been using for the past 12-18 months.


12 or 13 months, that's when the big "price jump" on altcoins happened.

Profitability RIGHT NOW is back down close to where it was in most of 2016 on most coins, the total network hashrate has caught up to the price rise since then.
Specific coins are a bit higher, others are lower, and a couple didn't EXIST that far back (ZCash and it's forked spinoffs being the biggest such group by far).

Bitcoin profifitability is probably still a little ahead, due to the limits of how many ASIC chips Bitmain and it's competition can get out of the foundries limiting hashrate growth.

Litecoin profitability is almost identical to Feb 2017 when I was seriously thinking about shutting my A2 farm down, only to have THAT big price jump change my mind about a week before I started pulling plugs.
A couple of the price dips in the last month have dropped it to a bit BELOW where it was at right before the first big "jump" in 2017, and DEFINITELY below where it was at before the L3 was introduced in late 2016.

GPU mining isn't down to "gotta have super cheap electric" to be profitable YET, but it's dropped enough that HIGH price electric areas are no longer profitable.


You are correct in that it is still somewhat profitable, but as I said it will not be the same going forward as it has been during the past 12-18 months.

The run-up in coin prices helped to mask the corresponding run-up in network difficulties for nearly all coins. This will have the effect of decreasing profitability by a great extent, even if the coin prices were to recover to their highs. Using my 18 month figure, I was able to mine 5 Ethereum a day with one rig back then, but then ETH was only selling for around $10, so $50/day gross for one rig, or about $1500/month.  

Now it takes nearly 10 rigs a month or more to produce those same 5 ETH. Assuming identically sized and configured rigs we have 10 rigs x 30 days or 300 times more effort put in to mine the same 5 ETH which (today) is going for around $700 each, or $3,500 for all five. Dividing $3,500 by 300 we get about $11.66/day per rig, so about 1/5th that when the run-up first started. However network difficulty continues to go up daily and the price looks more likely to go down than it does up, so this is what I meant is that we are now approaching the same point we did about 18 months ago in terms of profitability, but this time it is going down and not up.

So any calculations or metrics one used during this last 12-18 months will no longer be valid going forward as difficulty is not going down, but the price likely will, or at the best stay stagnant. So while you may still may be able to eke out some small profits in the coming months, it is not likely to be anywhere near the levels we just lived through.

One of the biggest factors is with the high difficulties you just cannot accumulate any significant amount of coins. Using my previous example back when you could earn 5 coins/day on a rig even though the profits were about 5x better (assuming you sold as you mined) you would only need to sell maybe one tenth of what you mined in coins to pay your electric bills, as 1 rig doesn't draw a lot of energy. Now that you need to power ten rigs, you expenses went up 10 fold, while your profit is already lower than it was then, but also there is the reduced "potential" for future profit to consider.

Setting aside 50 or 100 ETH per month back then was no big deal, now it will be impossible for all but the largest miners to accumulate such amounts for future speculation. Holding on to that excess production and selling at 100x price is where the majority of the big profits came into play. Even if you did everything you possibly could do wrong in mining 12-18 months ago, if you managed to hold even a few coins and sell during the highs you came out on top.

I won't even go into how even building a rig now is almost 2x as much as it cost back then so the payback period is hardly even feasible, but that's another argument.

So no matter how you want to look at it, the profits going forward will not be equivalent to those we just witnessed. The price of ETH would need to jump to $70,000 each for such a future potential to exist in today's environment.

Note I just used ETH as an easy example, but most coins went through the same stages so their figures would be similar.
newbie
Activity: 112
Merit: 0
March 13, 2018, 12:18:04 AM
#93
I saw a GTX 1070 SC for $475 on Amazon yesterday.  I was thinking of jumping on it, but figured I could wait a little longer for the market to squeeze weak hands some more.

It's still not profitable. $350 will be good deal
In case market rebound of course Smiley


I wouldnt touch that with even a credit card right now.  Just wait a few more months and there will be lots of people jumping ship and selling off their GPU's.  Flooding the market, causing prices to drop like a rock.  Ill se you all on ebay....bidding against you.

Yep, thats it.  And also manufacturers have a huge glut of supply. I realize it when NVidia representative said gotta sell one card in one hands pair month ago.
That was the bell Smiley
jr. member
Activity: 234
Merit: 2
March 12, 2018, 11:51:41 PM
#92
I saw a GTX 1070 SC for $475 on Amazon yesterday.  I was thinking of jumping on it, but figured I could wait a little longer for the market to squeeze weak hands some more.

It's still not profitable. $350 will be good deal
In case market rebound of course Smiley


I wouldnt touch that with even a credit card right now.  Just wait a few more months and there will be lots of people jumping ship and selling off their GPU's.  Flooding the market, causing prices to drop like a rock.  Ill se you all on ebay....bidding against you.
newbie
Activity: 112
Merit: 0
March 12, 2018, 11:40:33 PM
#91
I saw a GTX 1070 SC for $475 on Amazon yesterday.  I was thinking of jumping on it, but figured I could wait a little longer for the market to squeeze weak hands some more.

It's still not profitable. $350 will be good deal
In case market rebound of course Smiley
jr. member
Activity: 74
Merit: 1
March 12, 2018, 08:32:50 PM
#90
I saw a GTX 1070 SC for $475 on Amazon yesterday.  I was thinking of jumping on it, but figured I could wait a little longer for the market to squeeze weak hands some more.
jr. member
Activity: 140
Merit: 2
March 12, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
#89
All over Craigslist people are panic selling their 1070 and 1080 it seems.

Some are even below what the retailers are selling them for.

Basically a 450 day ROI is scary for most.

 I wish they would start doing that around here - availability on craigslist has jumped a lot the last month, but the PRICING is still well over retail.


Same over here.  I don't know.  I have my 31 gpu's that I got at November/early December 2017 prices and I'm happy for that.  Just playing a waiting game now.

Same position here--want to see  how the dynamics of hash/difficulty vs. distribution across coins vs. gpu prices vs. coin prices shake out in next half year. And it's funny, just checked Craigs list when I read this and somebody does have a 1070 up for $400  Grin
member
Activity: 644
Merit: 24
March 12, 2018, 07:39:25 PM
#88
All over Craigslist people are panic selling their 1070 and 1080 it seems.

Some are even below what the retailers are selling them for.

Basically a 450 day ROI is scary for most.

 I wish they would start doing that around here - availability on craigslist has jumped a lot the last month, but the PRICING is still well over retail.


Same over here.  I don't know.  I have my 31 gpu's that I got at November/early December 2017 prices and I'm happy for that.  Just playing a waiting game now.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
March 12, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
#87
All over Craigslist people are panic selling their 1070 and 1080 it seems.

Some are even below what the retailers are selling them for.

Basically a 450 day ROI is scary for most.

 I wish they would start doing that around here - availability on craigslist has jumped a lot the last month, but the PRICING is still well over retail.
newbie
Activity: 112
Merit: 0
March 12, 2018, 04:27:20 PM
#86
is there anyway to come relatively close to figuring a hash rate on overclock speeds? i found this link with a list of graphics cards with their hashrates based on speeds. i would love someone to verify the truth behind this


https://miningspeed.com

You have two big problems in your concept.
1) It's not the time to buy new GPU. Dont think about it - the current situation  is much worse then in 2016 becouse difficulty and card prices are at all time  peakes. But prices are not there.  Buing new equipment now - is a way to  losses.

2) Overclocking also is a bad idea now because it gives very small perfomance gain on significant power consumption background. Like 5% to 15% for example. It's  no good nowdays.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
March 09, 2018, 03:08:21 PM
#85
Mining may continue to be "profitable" but not by the same metric people have been using for the past 12-18 months.


12 or 13 months, that's when the big "price jump" on altcoins happened.

Profitability RIGHT NOW is back down close to where it was in most of 2016 on most coins, the total network hashrate has caught up to the price rise since then.
Specific coins are a bit higher, others are lower, and a couple didn't EXIST that far back (ZCash and it's forked spinoffs being the biggest such group by far).

Bitcoin profifitability is probably still a little ahead, due to the limits of how many ASIC chips Bitmain and it's competition can get out of the foundries limiting hashrate growth.

Litecoin profitability is almost identical to Feb 2017 when I was seriously thinking about shutting my A2 farm down, only to have THAT big price jump change my mind about a week before I started pulling plugs.
A couple of the price dips in the last month have dropped it to a bit BELOW where it was at right before the first big "jump" in 2017, and DEFINITELY below where it was at before the L3 was introduced in late 2016.

GPU mining isn't down to "gotta have super cheap electric" to be profitable YET, but it's dropped enough that HIGH price electric areas are no longer profitable.



full member
Activity: 602
Merit: 106
March 09, 2018, 02:16:55 PM
#84
So according to info the radeon rx 580 gets about 29 mh/s correct? according to a lot of sites, that's what im seeing... so i put that into a XMR calculator with that being the hashing rate. and the results were 112.12 monero coins being mined per day.. with that said the usd exchange would be close to 29000 a day.. something doesn't seem right. what am i doing wrong... the mh/s means million hashes per second. so 29 mh/s equals 29,000,000 hashes per second?
You have to understand the fact that different algorithms get different hashrates on the same card Smiley.

Monero uses Cryptonight algorithm, RX 580 gets around 800h/s (0.8Kh/s=0.0008Mh/s).

Ethereum uses Ethash algorithm, RX 580 gets around 30 Mh/s mining it Smiley.
haha thank you for clarifying that for me Smiley
Np! Smiley
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
March 09, 2018, 01:11:56 PM
#83
So according to info the radeon rx 580 gets about 29 mh/s correct? according to a lot of sites, that's what im seeing... so i put that into a XMR calculator with that being the hashing rate. and the results were 112.12 monero coins being mined per day.. with that said the usd exchange would be close to 29000 a day.. something doesn't seem right. what am i doing wrong... the mh/s means million hashes per second. so 29 mh/s equals 29,000,000 hashes per second?
You have to understand the fact that different algorithms get different hashrates on the same card Smiley.

Monero uses Cryptonight algorithm, RX 580 gets around 800h/s (0.8Kh/s=0.0008Mh/s).

Ethereum uses Ethash algorithm, RX 580 gets around 30 Mh/s mining it Smiley.
haha thank you for clarifying that for me Smiley
full member
Activity: 602
Merit: 106
March 09, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
#82
So according to info the radeon rx 580 gets about 29 mh/s correct? according to a lot of sites, that's what im seeing... so i put that into a XMR calculator with that being the hashing rate. and the results were 112.12 monero coins being mined per day.. with that said the usd exchange would be close to 29000 a day.. something doesn't seem right. what am i doing wrong... the mh/s means million hashes per second. so 29 mh/s equals 29,000,000 hashes per second?
You have to understand the fact that different algorithms get different hashrates on the same card Smiley.

Monero uses Cryptonight algorithm, RX 580 gets around 800h/s (0.8Kh/s=0.0008Mh/s).

Ethereum uses Ethash algorithm, RX 580 gets around 30 Mh/s mining it Smiley.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
March 09, 2018, 11:41:48 AM
#81
So according to info the radeon rx 580 gets about 29 mh/s correct? according to a lot of sites, that's what im seeing... so i put that into a XMR calculator with that being the hashing rate. and the results were 112.12 monero coins being mined per day.. with that said the usd exchange would be close to 29000 a day.. something doesn't seem right. what am i doing wrong... the mh/s means million hashes per second. so 29 mh/s equals 29,000,000 hashes per second?
jr. member
Activity: 140
Merit: 2
March 09, 2018, 10:30:45 AM
#80
is there anyway to come relatively close to figuring a hash rate on overclock speeds? i found this link with a list of graphics cards with their hashrates based on speeds. i would love someone to verify the truth behind this


https://miningspeed.com

It's really hard to say, because the miner (say ewbf v. dstm v. bminer for equihash, different versions of ccminer for other algos), card temps, and even type of cards within a given series (different manufacturers, memory types etc) all affect these things. What worked for me was to get to know each type of card and oc them based on that.

It does go to the question of "is mining worth it", as better brands like EVGA do a bit better in my experience but you have to compare their price premium vs. hash premium in terms of long term/future price, the rate of increase in difficulty over time, etc.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
March 09, 2018, 10:15:42 AM
#79
is there anyway to come relatively close to figuring a hash rate on overclock speeds? i found this link with a list of graphics cards with their hashrates based on speeds. i would love someone to verify the truth behind this


https://miningspeed.com
jr. member
Activity: 140
Merit: 2
March 09, 2018, 09:51:15 AM
#78
So lets use this for instance. if i buy 6 gpu's with a 1000 mh/s ea. that would calculate to 6000 mh/s total correct? i know stupid questions but this is a beginners topic..
Yes that's right
sr. member
Activity: 2142
Merit: 353
Xtreme Monster
March 09, 2018, 09:35:23 AM
#77
eth's 15 seconds transaction is the future, less than that could cause problems, more than that could cause problems, the only thing that needs is to increase transactions per block. There is nothing better than eth at moment.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
March 09, 2018, 08:54:42 AM
#76
at current prices, simply no.

find the right card?











member
Activity: 924
Merit: 15
March 09, 2018, 08:45:29 AM
#75
at current prices, simply no.
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