Mixers to be banned - page 49. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Kruw

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Quote from: alani123 on December 01, 2023, 11:00:34 AM

If there's a third party reviewing all transactions and filtering them in coordination with the coinjoin provider, does that still allow transactions to be private? Asking for a friend.

Oh and how about if this party's filtering is in compliance with state authorities demands? Does that mean CoinJoin is actually NOT a replacement to mixers? Also asking for a friend. Tongue

Yes, the coinjoin coordinator code is all open source, so there is never any reason to forfeit your privacy to a "mixing site".

dkbit98

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Quote from: ?? on ??

WW was never seized, so I'm not worried. I also don't see theymos as some power hungry dictator for the ~8 years I've been here so if you are afraid of what might happen next - don't be.

I am not afraid at all, but new rules sucks big time, you can't say they are good in any way Hhampuz.
We could speak about almost anything so far in forum, now I have be careful about every word and use some censorship filter whenever I write in forum.
You can check our local board and you will see that I actually expected big change from 2024, and by 2030 it's going to be even worse.
You will own nothing and be ''happy''. Tongue

BitDiscussion

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If governments are too concerned about our privacy, I wonder how no-log VPN services are existing for decades. Probably, they are not practically against what they claim actually.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I am currently not advertising or managing any advertising for mixers so I welcome this change! Well done to all involved.

To be honest with you, and with all due respect, I don't know why you are just happy because you don't advertise any mixers now. The only things left to advertise are the exchanges that don't advertise much on the forum and the casinos, which have been operating in a kind of legal limbo for many years now and are going to be next in line, even if it takes a while.

Having said that, I also think theymos' decision is reasonable in order to prevent greater evils.

dkbit98

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I am currently not advertising or managing any advertising for mixers so I welcome this change! Well done to all involved.

I understand why you say that, because it reminds you a bit on WW incident Tongue

but did you read the rules carefully in OP with definition of mixers?
You will be surprised what services can be interpreted as mixers, and I don't think even moderators will know what to do next year with updated forum rules.

alani123

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Quote from: Igebotz on December 01, 2023, 11:09:14 AM

Government 1:0 Bitcoin community

theymos what next? Non-KYC casinos and DEX Exchanges getting the hammer soon? Because the government do not have control over them?

If we start giving in to every government request and start opposing Decentralisation and privacy on a Bitcoin forum, everything Satoshi established and ideology would be for naught.

Sadly or not, Theymos is non an anonymous entity.
He's known running this forum with a real identity attached to his name. He can't run this website like a rogue, completely disregarding government instructions and laws.

Luckily the U.S. jurisdiction that he is in is pretty permissive about freedom of speech laws, but financial transactions are heavily sanctioned by the current governance system that the U.S. has.
This is a step to protect the forum as a whole. Mixers were advertised on here for long enough but the negative attention becomes too much of a risk at a certain point.

Hamza2424

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Hmm, Whatever Theymos did according to the circumstances is not wrong still there exists a but.

Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on December 01, 2023, 07:46:46 AM

I also see things heading the way of KYC-mixes as the government is okay with privacy that's under their supervision.

Under their supervision? what kind of favor to the users where they are getting the so-called privacy, I won't get involved in any illegal activity with my funds, but I want my funds to be secure and private and they want to provide us the services directly being controlled and monitored by them, Why? What's the purpose? Seems like the next target can be the self-Custodial wallet under their supervision.

dkbit98

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Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 06:45:25 AM

3. The service does not collect KYC-type info from all users.

So what's next?
Are you going to ask all members to perform KYC on bitcointalk? Roll Eyes

There are plenty of legit websites you can use without kyc, virtual cards, vpn services, casinos, etc.

Quote from: stompix on December 01, 2023, 08:29:31 AM

I have a feeling it's going to be easier to discuss about making a bomb than how to mix some coins.

I can understand decision to not allow mixers to advertise in forum, but not allowing any members to speak about them, and banning them... this that I really don't understand.
With this loos rules I think we are going to see much more bans and ban appeals for stupid things, especially if AI or bots are doing this ''job''.
I would not like to be in skin of moderators from 2024, unless they really like to do this.

Quote from: nutildah on December 01, 2023, 09:09:41 AM

The one thing I'm not quite sure I understand is the KYC part. There are several exchanges that still do not require KYC, even if they aren't allowed to service U.S.-based customers.

Same here.
It's so silly that I can't believe theymos wrote this, unless he was 5$ wrenched by ''someone''.

Igebotz

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Government 1:0 Bitcoin community

theymos what next? Non-KYC casinos and DEX Exchanges getting the hammer soon? Because the government do not have control over them?

If we start giving in to every government request and start opposing Decentralisation and privacy on a Bitcoin forum, everything Satoshi established and ideology would be for naught.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 01, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

In short, we can talk about its existence, we cannot mention names. Or can names be said without there being a direct recommendation?
For example: "Yesterday mixxptoabcd was closed by the US authorities, follow the news..."

Yes, that's what I understood from this:

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 06:45:25 AM

It will continue to be OK to discuss mixers in a general sort of way. Just don't direct people to mixers: don't link to a mixer, don't link to a directory with links to mixers, don't tell people to "Google ASDFmixer", don't link to a mixer's telegram, etc.

Quote from: Synchronice on December 01, 2023, 10:25:36 AM

Theymos, are we able to mention mixer companies? Can I say: Bitmixer was the first bitcoin mixer in history, chipmixer was the most profitable company, Guys, does anyone remember the time when mixers were legal?
Will we be able to mention company names without suggesting them to other people?

Please go here:

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 10:09:35 AM

Of those three examples, the first and second would be OK because they don't direct people to a specific mixer.

alani123

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Quote from: Kruw on December 01, 2023, 10:23:42 AM

You DO NOT NEED a trusted third party to make your Bitcoin private. You can coinjoin non custodially without ever giving up any data.

If there's a third party reviewing all transactions and filtering them in coordination with the coinjoin provider, does that still allow transactions to be private? Asking for a friend.

Oh and how about if this party's filtering is in compliance with state authorities demands? Does that mean CoinJoin is actually NOT a replacement to mixers? Also asking for a friend. Tongue

goldkingcoiner

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You banned mixers just when I was about to tell you guys about my awesome cinnabon recipe. But fine. Guess you don't need to know how awesome life can be.

But in a more serious tone, if this is what is required to keep Bitcointalk safe from lawsuits or other, then thats fine. But it does seem a bit like Theymos is jumping the gun on this. Advertising ban, I understand. But merely talking about specific mixers is not allowed? What is this, China?

Not much will change for me as there are better ways to be anonymous. Bitcoin is not one of them, and was never meant to be such.

BitMaxz

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 01, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

In short, we can talk about its existence, we cannot mention names. Or can names be said without there being a direct recommendation?
For example: "Yesterday mixxptoabcd was closed by the US authorities, follow the news..."

I guess it's yes we can talk about mixers but we do not allow to mention their sites, name of service, links, or guide them directly by saying "Search it using this keyword" It is considered a "direct recommendation" you are guiding him/her to a mixer.
About the news with the mentioned name of the mixer service, I think it should be fine because you redirecting people to the news and its service is already closed.

Quote from: joker_josue on December 01, 2023, 10:58:56 AM

Will you reject any image that shows the name of a mixer? Undecided

You'll be banned I'm sure.

joker_josue

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 01, 2023, 10:47:40 AM

Quote from: Erumo on December 01, 2023, 08:46:15 AM

What will be the punishment if there will be "use mixer" in the post where recipe is discussed?

OP mentions the word "mixer" 32 times, but never specifies it as "Bitcoin mixer". I see a new market for KitchenAid to advertise in signatures on Bitcointalk, starting 4 months from now! If I search the word "mixer" on Google, all I see is pages filled with this:
Image loading...

(image source in image URL)

It looks like "we" have given a completely different meaning to an existing word.

@theymos
Sorry to bother you, but I have a concern based on these comments.

Will you reject any image that shows the name of a mixer? Undecided

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 01, 2023, 09:02:02 AM

Isn't Bitcointalk decentralized forum where everyone has freedom to talk on any subject even against any government?

Bitcointalk still allows freedom of speech and support decentralization. If you check out the past mixers that got into trouble by the government citing aiding in helping mix hacked coins and it has become a recurring theme and theymos took the safe option rather than getting in trouble.

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 01, 2023, 09:02:02 AM

If tomorrow Gov declare Bitcoin btc as a money laundering source then we will see Bitcoin word in blacklist and also we will change domain??

apologize for over talked but I learned here that This forum is best place for embracing freedom.

The reason why the authorities are able to track the hacked coins to these mixers is because it is transparent and it is clear to any government that BTCitcoin will not aide in money laundering Tongue

.

LoyceV

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 01, 2023, 10:03:33 AM

to increase your privacy. Search on Google

I couldn't resist highlighting the irony in this.

Quote from: Erumo on December 01, 2023, 08:46:15 AM

What will be the punishment if there will be "use mixer" in the post where recipe is discussed?

OP mentions the word "mixer" 32 times, but never specifies it as "Bitcoin mixer". I see a new market for KitchenAid to advertise in signatures on Bitcointalk, starting 4 months from now! If I search the word "mixer" on Google, all I see is pages filled with this:
Image loading...

(image source in image URL)

It looks like "we" have given a completely different meaning to an existing word.

hd49728

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Quote from: Synchronice on December 01, 2023, 10:25:36 AM

Theymos, are we able to mention mixer companies? Can I say: Bitmixer was the first bitcoin mixer in history, chipmixer was the most profitable company, Guys, does anyone remember the time when mixers were legal?
Will we be able to mention company names without suggesting them to other people?

It will depend on status of the company.

If it is a dead company (seized, shut down, scam exited), I think no problem to talk about history.
If it is a live company, still in operation, you will be banned because you indirectly direct people to that company.

Quote from: shahzadafzal on December 01, 2023, 10:32:47 AM

Thank you for communicating the upcoming changes and for sharing the much needed new policy. If I’m not wrong Sinbad is the 3rd mixer in the last 18 months that have been sanctioned by the U.S. Govt.

ChipMixer
Tornado Cash
Sinbad

zasad@

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I'm not a designer, but something like this...

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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It's not funny how privacy seems to be a great offense to the government because they actually want to see through every individual's privacy to be in control of everything. Be that as it may, Bitcoin was not designed in such a manner; mixers only helped to bring about more privacy for users.

Although the decision you have taken is to also protect the forum, honestly, the government is attacking Bitcoin in many ways. Even if mixers are banned from being advertised on the forum, the government will still find another successful mixer to bring down.

Indeed It's sad news for the first day of the month, December, that mixers, which are usually the highest-paying campaigns, are to be banned from the forum.

shahzadafzal

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Thank you for communicating the upcoming changes and for sharing the much needed new policy. If I’m not wrong Sinbad is the 3rd mixer in the last 18 months that have been sanctioned by the U.S. Govt.

Bitcointalk.org holds significant importance as a forum within the bitcoin community, serving as a valuable space for discussions, insights, and collaboration. It's crucial to maintain a positive image and ensure that Bitcointalk is not labeled as a platform endorsing or promoting potentially illegal activities.

By proactively addressing concerns related to mixers, the forum aims to uphold its reputation as a responsible and compliant space for not only Bitcoin but cryptocurrency enthusiasts in general.

If I say theymos’s this decision plus stoping the advertisement reflects his commitment to fostering a constructive environment while respecting legal and ethical considerations within the broader crypto landscape.

Also I think this topic should be pinned for sometime in the meta section and also a linked to this topic should be added in mprep’s topic Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 49. (Read 23006 times)