Mixers to be banned - page 52. | Bitcointalksearch.org

stompix

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 6403

Blackjack.fun

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 01, 2023, 07:50:24 AM

Quote from: stompix on December 01, 2023, 07:29:31 AM

I have a feeling it's going to be easier to discuss about making a bomb than how to mix some coins.

- Hey, how can I gain privacy in Bitcoin?
- Use mixers!
- Cool, which one?
~~- WTF, you want to get banned sir?~~

No , no, no,

It will go like this:
- I can't tell you but I know this guy who sells drugs and guns, here is his telegram nickname, he will tell you everything about privacy! Grin

Quote from: digaran on December 01, 2023, 07:44:04 AM

That's been handled by a DT weasel already. 😂 you just haven't paid enough attention.

DT members can't ban you, did 7 negatives stop you from posting your views around? Nobody gives a crap about them!
But grab your popcorn because unlike that, this might become serious, as anyone who has received coins for their sig from that address (you know which I'm talking about) and has used these abbreviations is going to have his rectal examinations result files handed to the DOJ sooner or later. Grin

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 01, 2023, 08:02:02 AM

Isn't Bitcointalk decentralized forum ?

No it's not!
It's run by a single person, it has a domain registrar which can shut it down in an instant, it has a central server, it has mods that can ban you and can delete your posts!
What made you think the forum is decentralized in any way?

Gladitorcomeback

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 619

Isn't Bitcointalk decentralized forum where everyone has freedom to talk on any subject even against any government?

If tomorrow Gov declare Bitcoin btc as a money laundering source then we will see Bitcoin word in blacklist and also we will change domain??

apologize for over talked but I learned here that This forum is best place for embracing freedom.

albert0bsd

hero member

Activity: 862

Merit: 662

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 01, 2023, 07:50:24 AM

- Hey, how can I gain privacy in Bitcoin?
- Use mixers!
- Cool, which one?
- WTF, you want to get banned sir?

What about?
-To gain privacy of your UTXOs use the Mix function SomeRandom wallet (Non-custodial wallet)?

what if you just point to those functions in our recomendations? That worth a ban?

digaran

copper member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 899

🖤😏

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 01, 2023, 07:50:24 AM

I'm pretty sure theymos understands the situation. He was probably contacted by a fed, or better to say, blackmailed.

Would you rather have the entire forum shutdown?

Well, when they kick the hornets nest, you either gotta run for the hills or chicken out. 😂

dzungmobile

sr. member

Activity: 854

Merit: 424

Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook

Quote from: NotATether on December 01, 2023, 06:45:16 AM

Quote from: mindrust on December 01, 2023, 06:41:06 AM

First Chipmixer then the other one (forgot the name) and now Sinbad is going down. I knew they weren't let that shit go. It is official now, you cannot stay anonymous on the internet or anywhere else.

Whirlwind, you mean.

Whirlwind was down but it was not seized. It is more like a scam exit with photographed seizure on their website.

Quote from: Jawhead999 on December 01, 2023, 06:37:35 AM

Sadly, this will decrease the forum traffic except there are more other projects want to launch signature campaign.

It will not affect the forum too much. Before the Chipmixer seizure, there are some short-lasting mixer campaigns but no one can last like 6 months or longer. Chipmixer is the only campaign that lasts many years and after that seizure, we had many mixer campaigns and they have been lasting longer than usual.

So if they are all gone, I think the forum will be back to nearly normal status like days with ChipMixer, not much different.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 01, 2023, 07:50:24 AM

Would you rather have the entire forum shutdown?

The forum is bigger than all mixers and the existence of forum is important than appearances of mixers in bitcointalk.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: stompix on December 01, 2023, 07:29:31 AM

I have a feeling it's going to be easier to discuss about making a bomb than how to mix some coins.

- Hey, how can I gain privacy in Bitcoin?
- Use mixers!
- Cool, which one?
- WTF, you want to get banned sir?

Quote from: digaran on December 01, 2023, 07:44:04 AM

When theymos realized people are plotting to overthrow him, he decided to take action and buy the favors of govs.😉

I'm pretty sure theymos understands the situation. He was probably contacted by a fed, or better to say, blackmailed.

Would you rather have the entire forum shutdown?

criptoevangelista

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 691

In ₿ we trust

I agree with him about banning mixers, it really is something super complicated... To manage in the best possible way an environment where there can be infinite variable variations, it is necessary to make decisions, decisions to always maintain coexistence between the most diverse people and ideologies.

DaveF

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6320

Crypto Swap Exchange

Side note, there is also a financial aspect that theymos has to consider.
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-and-justice-department-file-complaint-alleging-environmental-violations-ebay

Ebay may win, they may loose but the cost of fighting it is going to be crazy.
If they come here and attack the forum financially for advertising mixers they may win, they may loose but there will be a cost.

As I posted a couple of minutes ago, theymos's house his rules.

-Dave

Erumo

member

Activity: 564

Merit: 50

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 05:45:25 AM

It will continue to be OK to discuss mixers in a general sort of way. Just don't direct people to mixers: don't link to a mixer, don't link to a directory with links to mixers, don't tell people to "Google ASDFmixer", don't link to a mixer's telegram, etc.

What will be the punishment if there will be "use mixer" in the post where recipe is discussed? Forum algorithm will get triggered and post deleted?

Now serious question, using word a blender or any other veiled version of mixer will be punished?

Woodie

hero member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 879

Rollbit.com ⚔️Crypto Futures

it's a bitter pill 💊 to swallow and if the existence of the forum depends on this decision I guess we have been left with no choice but to take it .

Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on December 01, 2023, 07:32:47 AM

That's sad.

But it seems a massive FUD is around us. Sinbad claims they are not seized. This is what they posted in their telegram.

Quote

Hello
I will post the official announcement about the latest news soon
The service is not seized and will be restored after maintenance is finished

I have a reason to believe this story. No law enforcement has time to design announcement while maintaining the company colors. For example, this is the banner Sinbad used for their November Bitcoin price prediction contest;

Good eye...
However history shows that whenever there is a seizure communication with the world/forum usually is halted almost immediately but with Sindad it was different..

TBH, It would be great to hear what is really going on from the horse's mouth considering they are still active and they wanted to give an update on this which might change the course of what's happening...

Quote from: hugeblack on December 01, 2023, 07:41:23 AM

-snip-
4) If blenders become illegal in the United States, mixers ads in signatures will be banned.

This way, you will avoid any illegal liability on the forum and people will seriously start to stop advertising mixing services.

Nice work around on this Cool

The forum being a multinational platform, should everyone go with what works with the US or servers/domain are likely US registered hence this decision?

digaran

copper member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 899

🖤😏

Quote from: stompix on December 01, 2023, 07:29:31 AM

is the Politics and Society board going to be next to be censored?

That's been handled by a DT weasel already. 😂 you just haven't paid enough attention.

Bitcoin is the best tool to fight for financial freedom, and CEX is just a legal money washing machine, they are too stupid to figure it out.
When theymos realized people are plotting to overthrow him, he decided to take action and buy the favors of govs.😉

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

I can suggest a compromise. Unless you receive a legal request, as of January 1, 2024:

1) All mixing services, ads, and links will be blocked and everything will be filtered.
2) Mixer links in signatures are allowed, but the announcement and deal agreement must be outside the forum (since links in signatures are an individual responsibility)
3) If you receive any official request to ban a mixing service or it becomes illegal, mixers will be banned from signatures.
4) If blenders become illegal in the United States, mixers ads in signatures will be banned.

This way, you will avoid any illegal liability on the forum and people will seriously start to stop advertising mixing services.

Samrean

member

Activity: 102

Merit: 28

I love Bitcoin

Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on December 01, 2023, 07:32:47 AM

That's sad.

But it seems a massive FUD is around us. Sinbad claims they are not seized. This is what they posted in their telegram.

Quote from: SinBad.io on November 01, 2023, 06:02:22 AM

And this is what was posted by someone else;

Quote from: FIODNederland on November 29, 2023, 10:56:12 AM

But the reason to believe the seizure is this; https://www.fiod.nl/fiod-takes-large-crypto-currency-mixer-off-the-air/

Law enforcement agencies start hiring graphics designers too Cheesy

mv1986

legendary

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1166

Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on December 01, 2023, 07:32:47 AM

~

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1933#:~:text=Sinbad%20is%20believed%20by%20some,from%20customers%20of%20Atomic%20Wallet.

I think this is quite insightful. It seems it has not yet been seized, but been put on a list for sanctions and everyone interacting with the sanctioned entity is facing massive trouble! Read the whole part about Sinbad.

Dunamisx

hero member

Activity: 952

Merit: 555

20BET - Premium Casino & Sportsbook

Quote from: un_rank on December 01, 2023, 06:35:04 AM

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 05:45:25 AM

Bitcointalk.org aims to allow about as much freedom as is reasonably possible. But this is not a darknet forum, and with mixers looking "grayer and grayer"

For clarity, are mixers "looking" grayer or is the government placing the spotlight on them highlighting the illegal transactions that went through them and then amplifying that using the media?

It will help to know if the stand of the forum is that mixers are injurious to the public like darknet and should not be promoted or that due to the intervention of authorities the forum cannot legally allow mixers to be promoted here.

Also if another privacy enhancing service gets the same spotlight is there a chance that will be blacklisted here too?

- Jay -

Before now, i know only that forum staffs were no allowed to participate in any mixer promotion, now it has escalated to all members of the forum being affected, the question is that, are mixers intended for the same purpose the government see them to be or they are only using this to threat the bitcoin network and user's privacy, because even without the use of mixers, fraudulent activities were still ongoing both in cryptocurrency and fiat, why the bitcoin being pronounce, what about the altcoins we often called shitcoins, aren't they worst than just an ordinary service that protect human financial privacy.

Learn Bitcoin

hero member

Activity: 462

Merit: 767

Instant cryptocurrency exchange with own reserves!

That's sad.

But it seems a massive FUD is around us. Sinbad claims they are not seized. This is what they posted in their telegram.

Quote from: SinBad.io on November 01, 2023, 06:02:22 AM

And this is what was posted by someone else;

Quote from: FIODNederland on November 29, 2023, 10:56:12 AM

But the reason to believe the seizure is this; https://www.fiod.nl/fiod-takes-large-crypto-currency-mixer-off-the-air/

Dump3er

hero member

Activity: 1526

Merit: 597

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 01, 2023, 06:27:24 AM

So, to sum up. If a service:

- is taking property and returning roughly the same property,
- advertises itself as providing privacy,
- requires user to forfeit custody of coins,
- and does not collect KYC

is illegal in this forum.

Really sad turn of events for the Bitcoin forum.

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 05:45:25 AM

Examples of things that are not banned mixers include exchangers (unless they have a mixing function), CoinJoin-supporting non-custodial wallets, and Monero.

If a non-KYC exchanger converts your BTC to XMR, is that considered legal or illegal in-forum? I'm confused.

I ask myself that question, too. What about services like changelly.com? You could essentially create privacy with going the BTC->XMR way. But maybe the plan is to ban XMR from being traded on any licensed exchange, which would make it more difficult for users seeking privacy to turn their XMR into cash in a simple way.

Quote from: stompix on December 01, 2023, 07:29:31 AM

I have a feeling it's going to be easier to discuss about making a bomb than how to mix some coins.
And speaking of that, just to know it in advance, since you banned mixers because of the US government stance on them and designating them as tools to help terrorists organizations, is the Politics and Society board going to be next to be censored?

lol!

It's not really funny because stompix is sadly right.

stompix

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 6403

Blackjack.fun

Quote from: dzungmobile on December 01, 2023, 06:15:18 AM

It sounds weird now but maybe in future, it will happen and with KYC, mixers will be allowed by laws.

I have one great idea for a product, security cameras that don't film people's faces! Grin

Why would you use a mixing service that requires KYC when you could simply use an exchange?

Quote from: theymos on December 01, 2023, 05:45:25 AM

It will continue to be OK to discuss mixers in a general sort of way. Just don't direct people to mixers: don't link to a mixer, don't link to a directory with links to mixers, don't tell people to "Google ASDFmixer", don't link to a mixer's telegram, etc.

I have a feeling it's going to be easier to discuss about making a bomb than how to mix some coins.
And speaking of that, just to know it in advance, since you banned mixers because of the US government stance on them and designating them as tools to help terrorists organizations, is the Politics and Society board going to be next to be censored?

Quote from: CryptopreneurBrainboss on December 01, 2023, 06:46:46 AM

Theymos, I understand this decision had to be taken to save the forum from alot of accusations in aiding fraudulent activity in the future but what next are we going to ban?

Signatures! Cheesy

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

It is an interesting question and many of us are curious about it too. I know only theymos can answer but I think it would most probably have been a pre-emptive move by him in order to disassociate from mixers because negative publicity is not going to help with the longevity of the forum.

Quote from: ibminer on December 01, 2023, 06:43:27 AM

I'm curious myself if there were any formal requests or warnings received, regardless, it is the safest move for the forum and its members, so not a bad decision. IIWII.

Quote from: ibminer on August 24, 2023, 03:18:32 PM

~At most, I'd guess the forum could get some formal legal request to ban or remove certain things from the site and/or maybe banning any participants that continue to advertise for a particular service which has been deemed illegal by the country the forum is hosted at, but I wouldn't see the forum itself in any big risk, as theymos would probably comply if it is related to advertising. That said, I'm not a lawyer.~

Bureau

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 279

Well, it was coming and it happened after the Sinbad issue. I know this ban will affect a good amount of members associated with signature campaign but it is better to be safe than suffer. A practical and hard decision taking by Theymos at the right time. It is still not illegal but the possibility of declaring it illegal is becoming certain day by day.

Mixers are a source of getting complete privacy on Bitcoin network but with time they have become a way to encourage criminal activities. The forum needs to be protected first and the decision taken today proves it. Nothing is above the forum and today we might lose a good amount of revenue but in time we will gain more.

Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 52. (Read 23912 times)