Mixing coins through exchanges | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 05, 2023, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?

If i deposit from my wallet BTC to the exchange and then withdraw them to another btc address, will my coins be tracked?

There is huge chance for you to clean your BTC through the strategy you posted but if you must do the process make sure the exchange is DEX, have good record, and you must also read their privacy policy to prevent future issue. However, I will advise you also make use a privacy wallet just in case there's a lagging which could expose your privacy.

Is there a risk of the DEX saving records in some way? How transparent are they in terms of order book? If the DEX is run through the Ethereum network, wouldn't that mean that it utilizes wrapped BTC and therefore everything can be traced?

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?

If i deposit from my wallet BTC to the exchange and then withdraw them to another btc address, will my coins be tracked?

If you are asking cryptocurrency that can be mixed using the exchange, well I can say that it is not possible. Because if you know that another exchange can mix cryptocurrency, maybe that platform is a scam, or maybe doing illegal activities that you don't know where your crypto could possibly be in danger.

But if Bitcoin mixing using the exchange, as far as I know and understand it is possible. That's why it can also be used as an exchange in some cases. Like they use blockchain analysis or the ip address used when transactions were made.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 03:05:06 PM

Quote from: Kruw on September 08, 2023, 02:49:16 PM

So if zkSNACKs called themselves a "premium coinjoin coordinator", you would have never complained about them blacklisting?

I think you have misunderstand my complain.

I'm not complaining merely because I don't like the fact that you discriminate against certain coins (without providing anything beyond regular mixing). Rather, my complaint arises from the fact that your software initially presented itself as the ultimate solution to Bitcoin's fungibility issues, assuring continuous privacy preservation. But, this assurance was contradicted by the release of the blacklisting update, which not only indicated a departure from your initial promise but also disclosed your financial support for a chain analysis company. This development stands in stark contrast to the Wasabi I used in the past.

If there are no further questions, may I be excused, Your Honor?

I just wanted to make sure you would never complain about zkSNACKs again once I submit this PR to add the word "Premium" to their website since according to you, "That's it."

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 02:44:09 PM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 02:21:14 PM

I don't see how doing thorough research suddenly makes blacklists and censorship "reasonable" after incessant pearl clutching and preaching how those services should be avoided.

Premium mixing. That's it. If you want to make a regular mixing, then use a software that will pick coins at random (i.e., will treat coins equally).

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: Kruw on September 08, 2023, 02:49:16 PM

So if zkSNACKs called themselves a "premium coinjoin coordinator", you would have never complained about them blacklisting?

I think you have misunderstood my complain.

I'm not complaining merely because I don't like the fact that you discriminate against certain coins (without providing anything beyond regular mixing). Rather, my complaint arises from the fact that your software initially presented itself as the ultimate solution to Bitcoin's fungibility issues, assuring continuous privacy preservation. But, this assurance was contradicted by the release of the blacklisting update, which not only indicated a departure from your initial promise but also disclosed your financial support for a chain analysis company. This development stands in stark contrast to the Wasabi I used in the past.

If there are no further questions, may I be excused, Your Honor?

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 02:44:09 PM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 02:21:14 PM

I don't see how doing thorough research suddenly makes blacklists and censorship "reasonable" after incessant pearl clutching and preaching how those services should be avoided.

Premium mixing. That's it. If you want to make a regular mixing, then use a software that will pick coins at random (i.e., will treat coins equally).

So if zkSNACKs called themselves a "premium coinjoin coordinator", you would have never complained about them blacklisting?

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 02:21:14 PM

Is their source code auditable?

Would you trust them if their source code was auditable? Based on my experience, code security auditing relies on a certain level of trust. It is good practice when you don't trust the technical expertise of the company, not when you don't trust their intentions.

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 02:21:14 PM

I don't see how doing thorough research suddenly makes blacklists and censorship "reasonable" after incessant pearl clutching and preaching how those services should be avoided.

Premium mixing. That's it. If you want to make a regular mixing, then use a software that will pick coins at random (i.e., will treat coins equally). But this particular service sells a product, and that is mixing with investors' money. Why would you want to do that and how you can verify you've received the product is something you should ask in their ANN thread. I'm not affiliated in any way other than advertising.

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 02:21:14 PM

As a money transmitter, centralized custodial mixers are legally required to maintain records, respond to law enforcement requests, report transactions over $10,000, and file reports on any suspicious activity.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply on every single corner of the world.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 08:25:10 AM

Being strict in terms is nowhere close to that. They can't scrutinize your data, because they don't possess it in the first place:

Quote

We neither require registration nor store logs. Once the mixing is done and transaction confirmed, the data on processed transactions is deleted. Following up to 7 days during which we expect to receive your deposit, the data also gets erased.

Is their source code auditable? Otherwise, it's an unverifiable claim. PureVPN also claimed they didn't keep logs and then went on to help the FBI arrest a hacker using their service. Trust, Don't Verify is the opposite of what you're supposed to do.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 05:04:44 AM

Jambler is an investment-based mixer, where users can choose to provide liquidity and take a commission from mixing. It's very reasonable that they analyze the blockchain to prevent an investor from clearing their money and gaining profit at the same time.

As an update to my little friend Kruw, who's really interested in the integrity of the services we advertise here, I've changed my mind about Mixtum after a conversation I've had with my campaign manager, and after a thorough research of mine. It's very likely that they're having strict terms to avoid sanctioning as they are considered money transmitting service.

As for your insistence that Mixtum is a blockchain analysis company: that doesn't even pass the laugh test. Someone who does blockchain analysis doesn't mean that's their product.

I don't see how doing thorough research suddenly makes blacklists and censorship "reasonable" after incessant pearl clutching and preaching how those services should be avoided.

As a money transmitter, centralized custodial mixers are legally required to maintain records, respond to law enforcement requests, report transactions over $10,000, and file reports on any suspicious activity. The semantics over whether a for-profit business analyzing the blockchain with proprietary algorithms is a blockchain analysis company would be the least of my worries.

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Quote from: Z-tight on September 08, 2023, 04:00:15 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Yes, CoinJoining is a good means of improving BTC transaction privacy but I don't know if you're aware that a vulnerability was detected about its service years ago,

What vulnerability are you talking about, take note that there are different CoinJoin implementations, like Whirlpool, Joinmarket, etc, which of these implementations had the vulnerability you are talking about?

I don't know about Whirlpool, or Joinmarket, but I am talking about Wasabi. One vulnerability was mentioned in 2020 and last year the forum member was discussing the wallet still having vulnerability issues. I believe the solution is already set but to prevent issues like that affecting the privacy of mixing coin is the reason why I suggested using 2 to 3 privacy services.

Quote from: Z-tight on September 08, 2023, 04:00:15 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

and in other to prevent issue like this when privacy is the top priority is the reason why i suggested to use of 2-3 privacy service.

What is 2-of-3 privacy service, i believe you meant a 2-of-3 multisig wallet, take note that multisig set up's don't help to improve privacy, that is what CoinJoins and mixers are for.

I guess a lot of people misunderstand what I mean by 2-3 which is 2 or 3, not 2-of-3 multisig wallets. Besides, I never add a "multi-sig wallet" and what I add is a "privacy service".

Quote from: Z-tight on September 08, 2023, 04:00:15 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Yes, you are right and it is never advisable to use a cryptocurrency wallet without the use of a VPN

You don't really need vpn, but to run your own node and connect your wallet directly at your own node.

Not everyone has the time to do that.

Quote from: Kruw on September 07, 2023, 06:15:56 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Yes, but I never said anything about multisig. What I was saying is the 0f 2 - 3 privacy provision services in other to get total privacy which could be mixing, wasabi wallet, and privacy exchange.

If 2 of 3 doesn't refer to signatures, what does 2 of 3 refer to?

Please read the message above very well and you'll understand what the 2 to 3 privacy provision service means.

BlackHatCoiner

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Being strict in terms is nowhere close to that. They can't scrutinize your data, because they don't possess it in the first place:

Quote

We neither require registration nor store logs. Once the mixing is done and transaction confirmed, the data on processed transactions is deleted. Following up to 7 days during which we expect to receive your deposit, the data also gets erased.

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 08:09:45 AM

Point me to the part where I said they scrutinize your data and then use it against you.

It's the bolded part of my previous quote:

Quote from: Kruw on September 08, 2023, 07:51:19 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 05:04:44 AM

It's very likely that they're having strict terms to avoid sanctioning as they are considered money transmitting service.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Kruw on September 08, 2023, 07:51:19 AM

So you are confirming that MixTum does not respect your right to privacy and thinks they are ethically superior since they scrutinize your data and then use that information against you

Point me to the part where I said they scrutinize your data and then use it against you.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 08, 2023, 05:04:44 AM

I've changed my mind about Mixtum after a conversation I've had with my campaign manager, and after a thorough research of mine. It's very likely that they're having strict terms to avoid sanctioning as they are considered money transmitting service.

So you are confirming that MixTum does not respect your right to privacy and thinks they are ethically superior since they scrutinize your data and then use that information against you:

Quote from: ?? on ??

Would you use a privacy-preserving software whose developers don't respect your right to privacy? Not only I would not, but I would even feel offended, and would recommend to avoid

Quote from: ?? on ??

Or just not use their software altogether as an indication of disrespect for their dishonesty towards me, and for being so arrogant to think they are ethically superior.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 01:02:01 AM

MixTum is a sort of whitelabel mixer operating on behalf of [banned mixer]. On Jambler's website they have a /images/scheme-2.png]diagram showing that all BTC that passes through their platform is evaluated through a scoring system. When you look at how their scoring system works it explicitly states that they use blockchain analysis.

Therethrough, they fulfilled FinCEN requirements to have effective technique that prevents money laundering with the aid of their service, didn't they?

Quote from: https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20Guidance%20CVC%20FINAL%20508.pdf

I wonder what they do with data gathered in the course of blockchain analysis. Do they destroy them due to the passage of time or accumulate data just for the occasion. As far as is known, there are occasions when business has no option other than to obey government"s requests in revealing data of their interests.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 01:02:01 AM

MixTum is a sort of whitelabel mixer operating on behalf of [banned mixer]. On Jambler's website they have a /images/scheme-2.png]diagram showing that all BTC that passes through their platform is evaluated through a scoring system. When you look at how their scoring system works it explicitly states that they use blockchain analysis.

You forgot quoting the important part:

Quote from: http://jamblery7zgxknhjtmj3mhfdajmyddqxbufrf6voa32h5w4otux3crqd.onion/become-seller.php

This stage makes it possible to terminate attempts of unfair investors to use an investment admittance as a mixer in order to clear their money and gain profit at the same time. [banned mixer] does not capitalize on return of cryptocoins which haven’t passed the scoring check, it is a necessary security measure.

Jambler is an investment-based mixer, where users can choose to provide liquidity and take a commission from mixing. It's very reasonable that they analyze the blockchain to prevent an investor from clearing their money and gaining profit at the same time.

As an update to my little friend Kruw, who's really interested in the integrity of the services we advertise here, I've changed my mind about Mixtum after a conversation I've had with my campaign manager, and after a thorough research of mine. It's very likely that they're having strict terms to avoid sanctioning as they are considered money transmitting service.

As for your insistence that Mixtum is a blockchain analysis company: that doesn't even pass the laugh test. Someone who does blockchain analysis doesn't mean that's their product.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Yes, CoinJoining is a good means of improving BTC transaction privacy but I don't know if you're aware that a vulnerability was detected about its service years ago,

What vulnerability are you talking about, take note that there are different CoinJoin implementations, like Whirlpool, Joinmarket, etc, which of these implementations had the vulnerability you are talking about?

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

and in other to prevent issue like this when privacy is the top priority is the reason why i suggested to use of 2-3 privacy service.

What is 2-of-3 privacy service, i believe you meant a 2-of-3 multisig wallet, take note that multisig set up's don't help to improve privacy, that is what CoinJoins and mixers are for.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Yes, you are right and it is never advisable to use a cryptocurrency wallet without the use of a VPN

You don't really need vpn, but to run your own node and connect your wallet directly at your own node.

Kruw

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on September 08, 2023, 01:02:01 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 06, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

Point to where in their Terms they say they are funding blockchain analysis companies like Wasabi does.

MixTum is a sort of whitelabel mixer operating on behalf of [banned mixer]. On Jambler's website they have a /images/scheme-2.png]diagram showing that all BTC that passes through their platform is evaluated through a scoring system. When you look at how their scoring system works it explicitly states that they use blockchain analysis.

Quote from: https://[banned mixer

/become-seller.php]To eliminate risks of getting a cryptocurrency of questionable origin, all Bitcoins are checked by the platform scoring system (including blockchain analysis). Transactions which have passed the check, get into the system and transaction which have failed the check, are returned to a customer from the same wallet with a deduction of commission fee of the platform and Bitcoin network for a transaction

That's a good find. I guess o_e_l_e_o's strategy for defeating blockchain analysis companies is to advertise their services until he owns all 21 million BTC.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 06, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

Point to where in their Terms they say they are funding blockchain analysis companies like Wasabi does.

MixTum is a sort of whitelabel mixer operating on behalf of [banned mixer]. On Jambler's website they have a /images/scheme-2.png]diagram showing that all BTC that passes through their platform is evaluated through a scoring system. When you look at how their scoring system works it explicitly states that they use blockchain analysis.

Quote from: https://[banned mixer

/become-seller.php]To eliminate risks of getting a cryptocurrency of questionable origin, all Bitcoins are checked by the platform scoring system (including blockchain analysis). Transactions which have passed the check, get into the system and transaction which have failed the check, are returned to a customer from the same wallet with a deduction of commission fee of the platform and Bitcoin network for a transaction

Kruw

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Yes, but I never said anything about multisig. What I was saying is the 0f 2 - 3 privacy provision services in other to get total privacy which could be mixing, wasabi wallet, and privacy exchange.

If 2 of 3 doesn't refer to signatures, what does 2 of 3 refer to?

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Yes, you are right and it is never advisable to use a cryptocurrency wallet without the use of a VPN when using a Wasabi wallet. I believe when privacy is the concern, taking extra precautions, and knowing about the do's and dont'S is what I needed the most in terms of privacy.

You can use Wasabi Wallet without a VPN since Tor is enabled by default, but even if you were to use Tor or a VPN with wallets such as Sparrow or Samourai, your addresses are still linked together by the server you query to find your wallet balance.

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Quote from: Kruw on September 07, 2023, 04:54:07 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Yes, CoinJoining is a good means of improving BTC transaction privacy but I don't know if you're aware that a vulnerability was detected about its service years ago, and in other to prevent issue like this when privacy is the top priority is the reason why i suggested to use of 2-3 privacy service.

Using multisig doesn't do anything to improve your privacy.

Yes, but I never said anything about multisig. What I was saying is the 0f 2 - 3 privacy provision services in other to get total privacy which could be mixing, wasabi wallet, and privacy exchange.

Quote from: Kruw on September 07, 2023, 04:54:07 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Privacy wallet for BTC? To achieve privacy you have to run your own full node and verify everything locally. Let's say you use an spv wallet like Electrum without connecting to your own Electrum server over tor but you use a third party server, your privacy is exposed to the server you connect to.

I'm not talking about the use of SPV wallet and when I said privacy wallet I am referring to Wasabi, Samourai, and Sparrow wallet

Out of the three you listed, only Wasabi provides network privacy by default. Sparrow exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to public Electrum servers (unless you already have a node running on the same machine) and Samourai exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to their trusted server.

Yes, you are right and it is never advisable to use a cryptocurrency wallet without the use of a VPN when using a Wasabi wallet. I believe when privacy is the concern, taking extra precautions, and knowing about the do's and dont'S is what I needed the most in terms of privacy.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Yes, CoinJoining is a good means of improving BTC transaction privacy but I don't know if you're aware that a vulnerability was detected about its service years ago, and in other to prevent issue like this when privacy is the top priority is the reason why i suggested to use of 2-3 privacy service.

Using multisig doesn't do anything to improve your privacy.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Privacy wallet for BTC? To achieve privacy you have to run your own full node and verify everything locally. Let's say you use an spv wallet like Electrum without connecting to your own Electrum server over tor but you use a third party server, your privacy is exposed to the server you connect to.

I'm not talking about the use of SPV wallet and when I said privacy wallet I am referring to Wasabi, Samourai, and Sparrow wallet

Out of the three you listed, only Wasabi provides network privacy by default. Sparrow exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to public Electrum servers (unless you already have a node running on the same machine) and Samourai exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to their trusted server.

Topic: Mixing coins through exchanges (Read 1082 times)