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Topic: Mixing coins through exchanges - page 2. (Read 1149 times)

Kruw

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Yes, CoinJoining is a good means of improving BTC transaction privacy but I don't know if you're aware that a vulnerability was detected about its service years ago, and in other to prevent issue like this when privacy is the top priority is the reason why i suggested to use of 2-3 privacy service.

Using multisig doesn't do anything to improve your privacy.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 07, 2023, 04:16:19 PM

Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Privacy wallet for BTC? To achieve privacy you have to run your own full node and verify everything locally. Let's say you use an spv wallet like Electrum without connecting to your own Electrum server over tor but you use a third party server, your privacy is exposed to the server you connect to.

I'm not talking about the use of SPV wallet and when I said privacy wallet I am referring to Wasabi, Samourai, and Sparrow wallet

Out of the three you listed, only Wasabi provides network privacy by default. Sparrow exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to public Electrum servers (unless you already have a node running on the same machine) and Samourai exposes your IP address and wallet addresses to their trusted server.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 05, 2023, 04:27:28 PM

There is huge chance for you to clean your BTC through the strategy you posted but if you must do the process make sure the exchange is DEX,

I don't like the term "clean your BTC" because there is no clean, dirty or tainted BTC, all BTC's are the same and this terms are created by centralized anti-BTC institutions to attack the network.

Clean, taint, or mixing BTC we are still saying the same thing but have different beliefs about the meaning of the words and the origin of the vernacular.

Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Mixing or CoinJoining coins is a means to maintain or improve privacy, not to 'clean' your coins.

Quote from: Z-tight on September 05, 2023, 07:06:15 PM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on September 05, 2023, 04:27:28 PM

However, I will advise you also make use a privacy wallet just in case there's a lagging which could expose your privacy.

I'm not talking about the use of SPV wallet and when I said privacy wallet I am referring to Wasabi, Samourai, and Sparrow wallet

Kruw

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Quote from: satscraper on September 07, 2023, 08:07:11 AM

It's on the front page, "[banned mixer]". Number 3 under "How it works".

Quote from: satscraper on September 07, 2023, 08:07:11 AM

Is there any chance that they might follow in the steps of Wasabi and cooperate with chainanalysis agencies to filter/blacklist some UTXOs sent for mixing?

MixTum's filtering/blacklisting poses a threat to users since they control their funds, whereas blacklisting from a Wasabi coinjoin coordinator does not affect the funds or privacy of the blocked user.

satscraper

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Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 01:11:48 PM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 01:09:44 PM

Merely "viewing coins in the blockchain" isn't blockchain analysis. It would require much more than a proprietary algorithm to be considered a chain analysis company, such as access to personal data from exchanges. They neither inspect and visually represent blockchain data. Just as the default coordinator from Wasabi is neither a chain analysis company if it was rejecting coins from a particular list of UTXOs some company gave to it.

For the multiple time, it isn't funding chain analysis.

I don't know where you got the idea that that Mixtum is "Merely viewing coins on the blockchain", MixTum says they do a "Thorough background check" using a "proprietary algorithm".

Curious information for me. After your words I sieved their FAQa and opened docs to find more details on this but not succeeded. Could you head me to exact place where they say about UTXOs check with their proprietary algorithm.

Is there any chance that they might follow in the steps of Wasabi and cooperate with chainanalysis agencies to filter/blacklist some UTXOs sent for mixing?

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 02:39:13 PM

Okay, so you don't have anything to say about Wasabi. How unusual. Roll Eyes

What question about Wasabi do you have? I'll answer it.

It is unclear to me why this post was deleted. Since I am being accused of silence, this post serves as proof I am being open and transparent.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Okay, so you don't have anything to say about Wasabi. How unusual. Roll Eyes

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 02:31:27 PM

I'm not going to stick with the definition.

Pretending definitions don't exist doesn't change anything about MixTum users having a thorough background check run on their deposits by MixTum's proprietary algorithm. Asserting a carve-out for the service that pays you to post here is nonsense and you know it.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 02:02:48 PM

If your company performs chain analysis using a proprietary algorithm, that makes you a chain analysis company by definition.

I'm not going to stick with the definition. Either way, there's a difference between using an algorithm to check coins versus funding the development of entities, officially recognized as doing chain analysis, with vast amount of data from governments, exchanges and other such firms, and with access to input such as IP addresses, KYC data etc.

It's pretty clear from the beginning though that you only see things as black or white. No in-between. Instead of acting the judge in the Bitcoin court, derailing the thread, would you like to talk with us about the part where you're recommending a practice that literally supports the development of effective chain analysis, from developers who're doxxing their competitors and outright lying about their product?

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 02:00:29 PM

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 01:11:48 PM

MixTum says they do a "Thorough background check" using a "proprietary algorithm".

I can also do that. I'm not a chain analysis company.

If your company performs chain analysis using a proprietary algorithm, that makes you a chain analysis company by definition.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 01:11:48 PM

MixTum says they do a "Thorough background check" using a "proprietary algorithm".

I can also do that. I'm not a chain analysis company.

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 01:09:44 PM

I don't know where you got the idea that that Mixtum is "Merely viewing coins on the blockchain", MixTum says they do a "Thorough background check" using a "proprietary algorithm".

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 01:02:52 PM

You seem to be confused. MixTum is a chain analysis company, they say they are performing the chain analysis on their users with a proprietary algorithm.

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 01:01:14 PM

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 12:56:12 PM

The end user can't tell the difference.

The point isn't if the end user can tell the difference. The point is if there's a difference. And there's a difference between funding a chain analysis, versus not funding it. There just is.

You seem to be confused. MixTum is a chain analysis company, they say they are performing the thorough background check on their users with a proprietary algorithm.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 12:56:12 PM

The end user can't tell the difference.

The point isn't if the end user can tell the difference. The point is if there's a difference. And there's a difference between funding a chain analysis, versus not funding it. There just is. The result isn't the same.

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 06, 2023, 12:48:30 PM

There's objectively difference between checking someone's coins, perhaps to comply with regulations, and using someone's coins to fund surveillance firm to spy on them. There just is.

The effect on the end user is the same whether the task is outsourced or not.

Quote

Scenario A: You get murdered by someone
Scenario B: Someone hires an assassin to murder you

The end user can't tell the difference.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 06, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

Point to where in their Terms they say they are funding blockchain analysis companies like Wasabi does.

They aren't funding blockchain analysis, that's just bullshit.

They do however claim that in order to use their service, you mustn't be involved in some illicit activity, so some coins are blacklisted. So they do censor.

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 12:15:00 PM

How does this make a difference to the end user?

There's objectively difference between checking someone's coins, perhaps to comply with regulations, and using someone's coins to fund surveillance firm to spy on them. There just is.

Kruw

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 06, 2023, 11:59:05 AM

Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 10:43:13 AM

Quote from: [banned mixer

]3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.

Scenario A - you send me coins and I take a look at them.

Scenario B - you send me coins. I then pay blockchain analysis entities for as much dirt on those coins as possible, using their vast mountains of data, their information gathered from various exchanges/services/governments that they work with, the nodes and light wallet servers that they run, their blockchain heuristics and countless previous analyses and investigations, their millions of data points that they buy and sell from third parties and from each other, including non-blockchain information such as KYC data, IP addresses, geolocations, and so forth.

If you honestly don't see the difference between these two scenarios then I really don't know what to say. Undecided

How does this make a difference to the end user? You don't seem to have any real statistics about how many nodes MixTum is using to collect IP addresses and xpub addresses by utilizing the data leaks in wallets such as Sparrow, or how much information MixTum has gathered from the exchanges, services, and governments they work with, or how much data MixTum buys or sells with third parties. All you know so far is that they are using a "proprietary algorithm" to spy on the funds deposited by their users.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Kruw on September 06, 2023, 10:43:13 AM

Quote from: [banned mixer

]3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.

Poker Player

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Quote from: mk4 on September 02, 2023, 02:09:17 PM

Your withdrawal would then come from one of the colder wallets (not from the address you deposited to, and not necessarily the address your deposit was moved to).

I did that at first but with casinos. But you can do it only with casinos without KYC and without wagering requirements, which are almost non-existent nowadays.

To make potential outside observers lose track of my transactions on the blockchain, I deposited from different addresses of mine, but creating each time a different deposit address in the casino. Then I withdrew. The withdrawals always came from a large address that had nothing to do with any of the others, as my deposits had not yet moved from the original address. Once I checked a while after the withdrawal was done and I saw that my deposits had been consolidated at another address, which was not the one from which the withdrawal was sent to me.

If someone wanted to track me down, she was lost. Of course the casino will know more about me than an outside observer and the government might require the casino to give them information from me but good luck sending subpoenas to Curacao to find out what happened to a few hundred dollars in Bitcoin.

Obviously, mixers are better, but this type of "mix" can be used in some case, such as the one I have explained.

Kruw

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 06, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

Point to where in their Terms they say they are funding blockchain analysis companies like Wasabi does.

Mixtum is a blockchain analysis company, you can read it right on their front page:

Quote from: [banned mixer

]3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.