Mixing coins through exchanges - page 5.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

Can we do this on centralized exchanges to save the fee? Need no privacy from the governments or the exchanges.

There exist mixers which can do this job much more effectively than a centralized exchange can do, and much cheaper. Dig up this place, here's a thread to begin with: 2023 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumblers Websites.

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 02:03:56 PM

Will the Wasabi work well if there is no concern about the agencies doing the chain analysis, as the motive is only to hide from family / friends?

Yes, but I would avoid Wasabi as it's been multiple times found that it's flawed software: https://twitter.com/wasabistats

Do me a favor and read this thread of mine, I briefly explain each mixing method's pros and cons: Your options to having privacy in Bitcoin - and their tradeoffs.

virasog

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on September 02, 2023, 12:24:44 PM

That's not mixing. Sending TC wallet from one wallet to another and then from that wallet to another and then finally to the destination wallet. These transactions can be easily tracked even by a newbie like me. A simple understating and usage of explorers can get you track.

From track means they can find your source wallet from where you made a transaction. To avoid the tracking of source wallet, you should prefer to use mixers or wallets that have the feature of coinjoin. Even many hardware wallets have coinjoin feature. If you do not know what is coinjoin, then its means that joining/mixing coins so that no one could track the source wallet address.

If you send a transaction from one wallet to another and then from that wallet to the third wallet, everything is being seen transparently on bitcoin blockchain however here we are putting the exchange address in between. This means that the OP will send his bitcoins to the exchange. You can verify from blockchain that he send the bitcoin to an exchange address. However, when he will withdraw bitcoin to another address, the exchange will not use his address as a source, so the connection of his source address will be broken and there is no way to link the source address of the OP to the new address where he send his bitcoin from the exchange.

In the case, which OP mentioned, the reason for this mixing is only personal (and not to hide coins from government / financial sector), the exchange can fulfill his requirements.

mk4

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Quote from: TryNinja on September 02, 2023, 09:39:11 AM

Then you’ll be fine. All they will see is that you deposited on that exchange. Finding out which withdrawal coming from the exchange’s address is yours isn’t an easy task.

If you want to make sure no one plays detective, try withdrawing in chunks (e.g you deposit 0.025 btc and withdraw 0.01 and 0.015 to two different addresses rather than 0.025 at once to a single address).

As far as I know, this is how some exchanges does it(at least in the past when I observed some exchanges):

You deposit funds to provided wallet address --> your coins gets moved to exchange's colder wallet (probably if big enough for the tx fees to be worth it).

Your withdrawal would then come from one of the colder wallets (not from the address you deposited to, and not necessarily the address your deposit was moved to).

But yea, if you want to make sure, do it like how a mixing service would do it. Do it in chunks!

ZeeshanTrade

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 02, 2023, 12:29:39 PM

The hardware wallet that I know that supports coinjoin is Wasabi. If you want to avoid chain analyses not to spy on your transaction, it is better not to use Wasabi coinjoin. He can use Whirlpool on Sparrow or Samourai wallet instead if he does not want to use a mixer.

Will the Wasabi work well if there is no concern about the agencies doing the chain analysis, as the motive is only to hide from family / friends?

Quote from: un_rank on September 02, 2023, 12:36:32 PM

There are mixers which are cheaper than exchanges.

- Jay -

Please name those which are cheaper than exchanges ?

un_rank

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- Jay -

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

The reason is to hide from the family/friends only, no issues with the higher official levels

They should not be aware of your address that you use if you want to remain private from your family and friends. In the event that they became aware of a wallet you use, sending back and forth from an exchange is enough to be safe from basic tracking devices but is not advisable for privacy reasons.

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

Can we do this on centralized exchanges to save the fee? Need no privacy from the governments or the exchanges.

There are mixers which are cheaper than exchanges.

- Jay -

Eternad

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?

If i deposit from my wallet BTC to the exchange and then withdraw them to another btc address, will my coins be tracked?

It’s only possible to mix using exchange if you are hiding your transactions from someone who can’t force the exchange to reveal your KYC and internal transfer history since exchange use a liquidity pool that share with all their users.

But if your purpose is to hide from the government then Exchange is the worst place to mix your coins because they are centralized services which is regulated by the government.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on September 02, 2023, 12:24:44 PM

Even many hardware wallets have coinjoin feature.

The hardware wallet that I know that supports coinjoin is Wasabi. If you want to avoid chain analyses not to spy on your transaction, it is better not to use Wasabi coinjoin. He can use Whirlpool on Sparrow or Samourai wallet instead if he does not want to use a mixer.

Faisal2202

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That's not mixing. Sending TC wallet from one wallet to another and then from that wallet to another and then finally to the destination wallet. These transactions can be easily tracked even by a newbie like me. A simple understating and usage of explorers can get you track.

From track means they can find your source wallet from where you made a transaction. To avoid the tracking of source wallet, you should prefer to use mixers or wallets that have the feature of coinjoin. Even many hardware wallets have coinjoin feature. If you do not know what is coinjoin, then its means that joining/mixing coins so that no one could track the source wallet address.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

The reason is to hide from the family/friends only, no issues with the higher official levels

The proper way:

Your family/friends have already known that you have the coins and the amount? I will advice you to sell the coins. Buy bitcoin back using a decentralized exchange. This will help in a way you can not be traced, even by other people if done right with Tor and also using Tor for your wallet. Avoid scammers.

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

Can we do this on centralized exchanges to save the fee? Need no privacy from the governments or the exchanges.

The exchange/chain analyrtic companies/government can know you way:

On exchanges, you do not need to convert to any coin. After you send the coin, just wait for sometimes and be sending the ones in small amount to different addresses which you will not link together. You will not link it if you create each wallet for the coins differently sent or if using coin control on the recipient wallet while sending. But having separate wallet for it will be advisable.

NotATether

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Exchanges are not mixers. They keep a record of every user's transactions, and I don't need to mention what happens when your account is verified with KYC information. If they didn't collect this kind of information, then they probably have accounting problems that will take them down like FTX .

But then again, normal people can't just request access to user data of exchanges.

TryNinja

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

The reason is to hide from the family/friends only, no issues with the higher official levels

Then you’ll be fine. All they will see is that you deposited on that exchange. Finding out which withdrawal coming from the exchange’s address is yours isn’t an easy task.

If you want to make sure no one plays detective, try withdrawing in chunks (e.g you deposit 0.025 btc and withdraw 0.01 and 0.015 to two different addresses rather than 0.025 at once to a single address).

ZeeshanTrade

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Quote from: TryNinja on September 02, 2023, 08:10:34 AM

Basically: your neighbors won’t be able to track you, but the exchange/police/government will if they want.

The reason is to hide from the family/friends only, no issues with the higher official levels

Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 02, 2023, 08:56:59 AM

Use mixers or coinjoin instead. Or convert your bitcoin to monero and back to bitcoin on a decentralized exchange. With centralized exchanges, you have no privacy.

Can we do this on centralized exchanges to save the fee? Need no privacy from the governments or the exchanges.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Lucius on September 02, 2023, 08:54:32 AM

If you don't want to use mixers for some reason, then you can try to make several wallets (5 or 10) and mix coins by sending transactions between them.

I think it's too much to ask from a person who was asking to know a basic response of mixing coins to exchange.

OP. from which group of people you want to hide yourself?

If this is authority/government then use mixers. If this is hiding your coins from regular internet users then I think using exchange is not a bad idea but make sure the exchange has no negative term for mixing coins.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: Lucius on September 02, 2023, 08:54:32 AM

I can't say how deep they go in their analysis, but they probably won't look at more than 10 transactions in depth.

The problem is that at some point, you'll have to spend the coins, and at that point you will need to be extremely cautious to not consolidate any coin, as that would de-anonymize them. That's why mixing through your own wallets isn't recommended; here coinjoin comes, which is essentially grouped consolidation, and achieves that.

So, if custody is an issue, I'd recommend to using Whirlpool via Sparrow. There's a great guide: https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/mixing-whirlpool.html

Charles-Tim

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Use mixers or coinjoin instead. Or convert your bitcoin to monero and back to bitcoin on a decentralized exchange. With centralized exchanges, you have no privacy.

If someone is tracking you and you use a centralized exchange, the person will not be able to track you again, but with all the KYC and the necessary documents you used for verification on the exchanges, that is worse than anything we can compare it with.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?

If i deposit from my wallet BTC to the exchange and then withdraw them to another btc address, will my coins be tracked?

Mixing coins for privacy reasons and then using exchange is the worst idea but if you just want to break the connection between your address and coins then it's the cheapest way.

But the interesting fact is some exchanges used to mix the hacked coins using exchanges which is called chain-hopping, which involves mixing coins through stolen exchange accounts and mixing coins from BTC to Monero like privacy coins in such rapid ways before the authorities or exchanges realize something is happening but now AML procedures on centralized exchanges are tights it less likely to happen.

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Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?
~snip~

As others have already written, it's a bad idea that doesn't achieve anything positive, and even threatens your privacy even more because most CEX require KYC.

If you don't want to use mixers for some reason, then you can try to make several wallets (5 or 10) and mix coins by sending transactions between them. It also won't completely protect you from all these companies that sniff and analyze the blockchain, but if you have some coins that you think could be "suspicious", then this way of "mixing" can give you a certain security in case you send such coins to some centralized platforms that perform deposit analysis. I can't say how deep they go in their analysis, but they probably won't look at more than 10 transactions in depth.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

It is possible to mix coins through exchange ?

The real question is why would you ever want to do that? The exchange isn't portraying itself as a mixer, and if you take the time to read their privacy policy, you'll quickly figure out that you have no privacy. On top of that, add that most centralized exchanges work with chain analysis companies, subjecting coins into "clean" and "tainted", going in the complete opposite direction of what a currency is aimed to be.

Quote from: ZeeshanTrade on September 02, 2023, 08:07:28 AM

If i deposit from my wallet BTC to the exchange and then withdraw them to another btc address, will my coins be tracked?

They will absolutely be tracked. Exchanges do share that information all the time, there's even a site[1] which takes an address as input and tells you to which exchange it belongs.

[1] https://www.walletexplorer.com/

TryNinja

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It will make it harder for random people to look on the blockchain and trace you, but the exchange keeps everything logged and they WILL provide this information if they have to (i.e if a government agency asks them to).

Basically: your neighbors won’t be able to track you, but the exchange/police/government will if they want.

OmegaStarScream

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Easily? They probably won't for the average user, no. But if you're going to use a centralized exchange, then yes because they could track all of the deposits, withdrawals, and trading you made and it's even worse with KYC exchanges, since everything will lead to your identity, and not just a bitcoin address.

Topic: Mixing coins through exchanges - page 5. (Read 1135 times)