Topic: Monero XMR ... Why do people fall for the shills and bullshit? - page 3. (Read 6136 times)

You better check your math.


Because some changes are more risky and disruptive than others, and need to done with greater care and planning. Some of the changes you mentioned, such as not being optimized, were fixed relatively quickly. Others will be fixed in due time, and obviously the experience so far shows that the coin can do quite well, thank you, despite not having changes that you apparently don't fully understand pushed out too quickly.

(Good) software development is hard, okay? Are you actually a software developer in any way? Because frankly you sound pretty ignorant about this, even if you make some other good points from time to time.

Because we were having endless issues with statically compiled boost not playing nicely on some systems. As a reminder, the release in question is 2 months old, so we've since moved past this and it will no longer be an issue in the next tagged release.


I'd expect them to start using it sometime between now and mid-2040.

Thanks for the catch:) I'll fix it now!

Why?


When do you expect the second group to start using it?

The word you were looking for is sliver, not slither, Snakes slither.

"By cutting out dust from block rewards, Monero can have this as well" - No, It can't. I suggest you read again - http://boolberry.org/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf That reduction is unrelated to cutting dust.

You can compress a file into an archive. You haven't made the file smaller, you've just compressed it. Putting blockchain into a database hasn't trimmed the actual dataset.  It's just put it into a database, BBR would actually reduce the size of the dataset. Spending time on database is a commendable piece of work and a needed contribution to cryptonote, yet If I'm not wrong it's something which can, and would be expected be adopted by others. So you can have a 'pruned' dataset IN an embedded DB.


Care to elaborate, exactly how he ruined your anonymity set? factoring in the mandatory mixin features added. I don't disagree with some of gmaxwells statements though. Why do you keep bringing up the database..  after XMR team commandeered Bitmonero, rebranded and began their (very good) concerted marketing efforts, was there a database? NO. so same question to you- why do you want to trust those guys who never put the time into putting in a real database in the first place? Why didn't they do a proper relaunch and fix the problems?  instead of just hijacking, changing the name initially and calling it a day. Because they weren't in a rush right?    

Anybody could of cloned bitmonero and rebranded it as moneronxt or some moronic shit without making any changes at that time, just promised ones at a future date... No shit they would be first to launch then.  No shit BBR launch was a little later because it actually implemented it's own novel ideas. Brand new PoW for instance. A whitepaper of which was recently released yet torn to shreds by die hard monero supporters nitpicking at minor (mis)interpretations of sentences, the dev doesn't even have english as a native language.

We come again to the predictable answer 'they are working on it' ... 'doing it properly' (stab at other coins implying they aren't) - XMR started by copy pasting BMR without making any changes  to launch earlier but now the team is working on it and that's what counts. It'll come soon...please.. So maybe BBR dev is also 'working on it gradually' like XMR works on their features gradually. As you know.. you cannot rush these things..

Ultimately, the argument you use to deride BBR is the same one you use to support XMR. If XMR is amazing because it's fixing problems not today but X date into the future, why can't BBR or any other coin be be that way?


The whole point of this being a trustless, transparent feature baked in is so you don't need a (usually centralised) third party service.  It's a frictionless process to send money to an alias with BBR. No need to remember a long string of characters, no need to trust any other service. With XMR to send money to your friend alice, you have to ask her for her address, and then paste something like 226f0f1682c3f5afda441789f4c9eee0c124586c4fd729c3103f63f4675f225b to send her funds. You have to save that into a notepad file or address book to keep track of it.  With bbr, you could just type @alice and hit send. No arguing that that isn't a nicer experience.

what if someone nabbed your view key < what does that even mean?
or got access to your wallet? < Are you serious? Imagine if someone got hold of your monero or btc wallet. shock horror! you might have a risk of losing some funds.. Be serious.

"BBR has completely open source GPU miners, that don't hold you to ransom by stealing hashpower or forcing a donation to the dev like with XMR. "


what was affordable because nobody wants the coin -- The mandatory donation to the author of moneros closed source GPU miners?   I can't see how you'd even try to argue that closed source miners with pitfalls twisting your arm behind your back if you don't donate (you earn more donating than the loss of hashrate in not) are better than open source BBR miners for the ecosystem.

"BBR has more sensible block times."



You haven't actually argued against the point there. the vision was supposed to be "close to BTC original curve" < Does it look close to BTC curve to you? half of all supply mined within a year.. seriously? I'm fine with it, because the more for me and less for others the better, as is everyone elses mentality lucky enough to be here early on, but it means potential pool for participants is much smaller. If BTC was 50% mined in 2009-2010, when it was more mature than XMR, (although the concept wasn't) I'm sure it wouldn't have taken off in the same way.

But saying that I can't pretend there hasn't been worse around, the fact NXT is near the top of the crypto market caps is testament to that. Also have to concede if the free market believes. they'll buy regardless of the distribution. Still can't lie and say it doesn't seem shortsighted, perhaps even lazy and greedy to not have tweaked it.

TFT was the one who added the 'feature' (bug) to change it from 120s to 60s which caused it's own set of problems. It since hasn't been corrected. It's one of the reasons you saw so many orphans-  verification is expensive, that wasn't optimized, neither was the daemon, etc all CN coins had problems but XMR had issues even more so with introduction of 60s block. When XMR was hijacked from TFT, the new devs made no effort to fix his questionable changes, Those params were left the way they were, despite there being arguments against them they were left to stay . Why even choose it? why keep it.

They couldn't be changed at this point, no way. It would harm XMR too much.. So it HAS to be swept under the rug and masqueraded as an intentional design choice to save face.

Awww that's so cute.

I know it is the CryptoNote whitepaper. I was looking for Monero whitepaper that the poster indicated he had read. For example, if someone said Boolberry whitepaper/presentations, I found them on the Boolberry thread.

This might be the type of "shilling" that people are complaining. Now, CryptoNote = Monero, when it is far from it. It should not be called Monero whitepaper, that would be plagiarism.

Yet one of the main thing that attracted people to Bitcoin is anonymity (semi-anonymous). They just can't state a good reason why Monero is bad. The same happens with DRK.
Just look at the volume of Bytecoin and you will know everything right away.

How is being truly anonymous pointless?

Your first point is completely ridiculous, are you a fan of transparent transactions that make litecoin less private than a PayPal account?

The world is changing, slow movers get left behind.

Monero is scam?
I never got that idea at all.
Ok, it is scam because the wallet is clunky... what? Everything is clunky in BTC world I never ever ran a wallet until Electrum came out! Hours downloading a .dat... or synchronizing? WTF?

I honestly completely fall in for those "shills and bullshit", I have no perception of a problem and I still don't have one.

BBR... okay, why not.

I am a large owner of Bitcoin since 2011 (and married since 2003 since that was of importance to the OP  )

I have bought 1%+ of the monero emitted so far, in my campaign that I told in advance.

The reason for buying Monero and not any other altcoin, before of after, is outlined in the Altcoin observer thread.

The two basic qualifiers for me to buy into a coin are:

- being the first to introduce a technical feature not implementable in Bitcoin;

- fair launch and reasonable emission schedule.

These are, in my understanding, the fundamentals that make it possible for a coin to stand the test of time, because out of these only grow the market niche, the community of reasonable people, and the adoption.

I commented on that post elsewhere (Anotheranonlol has been cut-and-pasting that everywhere, so I had to dig around to find my reply, and turns out it wasn't even a reply to that comment specifically).

Basically, the difference between the two in terms of usability is incremental. We did not build the 0.8.8 release statically as there were too many boost issues on various platforms, and we needed people to be able to dynamically switch one boost version out for another. The next tagged release will have boost linked in statically. With regards to the GUI, there are already a number of GUIs for Monero. They are all just as usable as the Boolberry one, which makes them all equally useless to anyone outside of the very small circle of technically proficient people on this forum. They're not intuitive or natural for a non-cryptocurrency native.

In other words, you have to split target audiences in two. Firstly, there's a relatively group of people (no more than a few tens of thousands) who know or use this forum (check box one), are interested in cryptographically sound software (check box two), don't buy into gimmicky "features" (check box three), and have a degree of technical proficiency (check box four). Secondly, there's the rest of the planet (check box one), who may have a peripheral interest now or in the future in using digital currency (check box two), and who may run malware-ridden systems or be unable to use a computer without the simplicity of an Apple product (check box three). In-between these two groups is a sliver - a very tiny third audience - who know or use this forum (check box one), are very opinionated and express their opinion loudly (check box two), and have a technical proficiency below what one would expect (check box three - and that's an observation and not meant to be an insult).

Monero in its current form (command-line, optional GUIs you may have to compile yourself) is perfectly useable by the first audience, as is Boolberry. In the future Monero hopes to be perfectly useable by the second audience, but right now both Monero and Boolberry are completely useless for that target audience. That tiny sliver - the third audience - are not catered for by Monero unless they are willing to ask and learn, whereas Boolberry appears to "work out the box" for them.

It is not worth our while expending effort and doing something half measure to incrementally improve usability for that third sliver. We will, as a natural order of ongoing development, make things easier for that group, but most likely not to the level Boolberry has. Instead we choose to focus on improving the stability and usefulness for our current audience (the first group), whilst also pursuing a long-term goal of making Monero useable by the second group. Between now and when we reach that long-term goal, those that are in the third sliver will either disregard Monero until it accomplishes that long-term goal and is useable by them, or they will apply their minds, ask questions, and move into the first group.

I doubt it. The guy is a bullshitter. He tried to pretend he knew nothing about the Monero shills and tsunami of bile and FUD against all the other cryptonotes. Yet he seemed totally informed in all other aspects of this forum. Total bullshitter!

I wouldn't be surprised if kbm IS Fluffypony. They sound like the same person to me. 

Operating the XMR wallet / daemon is easy as 1-2-3. 

Simplewallet will output your address into a txt file for easy copy/pasting into your batch file.  Using the transfer command is also a simple format.  I don't see why people need to bash XMR because they are afraid of command line interfaces.

Making money is part of having funds for development. Most of the coins now days are purely for pump and only that.

Monero appear to have nice group of developers backing it. Some of them are long time forum users here.

Original CryptoNote whitepaper: http://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf
Our mathematicians and cryptographers raw (and sometimes snarky;) annotations are here: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_annotated.pdf
The review of the CN whitepaper as presented by one of our mathematicians is here: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_review.pdf

Link to the whitepaper?

i think all alt coins all just for making money. all of them about the innovations are just stunt.

1. There is a lot of butthurt in this thread. Reminds me of 2011 when the very first set of alt coins came about. 

2. I have read the Monero whitepaper and downloaded the source in a VM and tinkered with it a bit. As of now I currently support Monero and will keep a close eye on it.

3. Boolberry? What kind of messed up name is that?........may as well call it IntStrawberry or DoubleBlackberry or LongRaspberry.