Topic: 🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com - page 65. (Read 119056 times)

i read somewhere in this thread that a user chose to pay 200bits transaction fee when withdrawing but moneypot still paid less than 10k as network fee so i didn't pay more just to recieve same TX fees on my withdrawal :/

A player martingaling starting at 1mbtc and getting to 1btc is no different than a player coming and having their first roll be 1btc. Both are exactly the same. The user's previous bets have zero impact on the future bets. What people are describing here is a pure sign of gambler's fallacy. If it's +EV, it is whether or not there are bets before or after that one. It's pure math.

You can choose the priority option which charges 200 bits instead of 100.


Hufflepuff abused a flaw in PrimeDice's system, that is not relevant to legitimate players. We want players to bet big, small bets make up a very, very small percentage of casino revenue.

Again, this is not occurring at the moment and if apps decide to start doing this MoneyPot is able to change our T&C accordingly.

No where does MoneyPot promise low volatility to people who play as the house, nor will we. If you are unable to handle swings in the bankroll you should probably divest. Compared to our competitors such as Bet King and BitDice, and SafeDice, we have extremely low volatility (mainly because we have a large "bread and butter" base). As an investor you should want the larger bets: small bets do not make the bankroll anything.

The bottom line is as long as bets are kelly compliant, MoneyPot is happy to take them.

Well, it would definitely affect the Volatility of pool returns if apps are taking all the small bets and the pool only underwrites the largest bets. Of course as you say, that is not happening now. And volatility does affect the pool value in and of itself, so I'd like to suggest that yes, it does affect the investment pool. (A pool +EV with higher volatility is less valuable than the same EV with lower volatility.)

A primary concern of all investors is the prospect of a 'Hufflepuff' type event - you may recall the guy who hacked/broke primedice for an egregious stack of coins. Hufflepuff didn't do that with small bets - he was a 'whale.' So when an app owner takes on the small bets themselves but leaves the largest bets to the investment pool they are in effect hedging their 'hack risk' given the hack will manifest with very large bets.

TL;DR : Apparently an investment in the MP bankroll is not necessarily positioned to underwrite all bets. In fact at any given moment it is not clear which, or what percentage of bets, are being underwritten by the public bankroll, and how much is underwritten by the apps themselves.

Again, I totally believe you that the app owners are not underwriting their own bets with any consistency, and thus it is 'not an issue' ... now. But I think as MP grows, it could be.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be difficult. As an 'investor' I just like to understand what I'm invested in ...

my withdrawal is still unconfirmed after 10hours because of low transaction fee. Can you please fix this so that all future withdrawal willl not only add 100bits fee but only pays 2k-6k satoshi network fee

Terms are here:
https://www.moneypot.com/faq#what-is-the-investment-option-

The fact that it is possible for apps to take on smaller bets themselves (which again, is not happening at the moment) does not affect the investment pool whatsoever.. We tell people that their investment will only take on EV+ bets, and we only allow EV+ bets.

We have had this fee structure in place for the past half year (and it was announced when we did it), the vast majority of investments is made up by a few investors and they are satisfied with the way the business is operated. The only reason profit has been moving slow recently is because we had 4 days of downtime just a week ago, and over the past few days we have had a player win over 40 BTC (https://www.moneypot.com/users/copypasta).

Also a bit curious as to who you think should be paying for apps advertising if not the app owners

For investors I think this is a relevant disclosure, and should be disclosed somewhere other than in random forum posts. I'm sure you look at the data and can see that essentially no apps (volume) are using this feature (?) so it is not relevant, but they could choose to use it, and it could become relevant at any time.

Does MP have some type of basic 'investment disclosure' that it provides bankroll investors? I've been using MP for a while, but don't recall seeing one. Then again, I don't recall looking for one either ... :-)

You mean that if the app owner want to advertise about his games, he actually need to fork out from his 50%? And i dont know the investor only get this low percentage of the profit. I always think it is much higher. With the crazy amount of bankroll, no wonder that the profit is increasing at a very slow rate right now.

50%(last time i checked) of the Housed Edge goes to App owner, no deductions,fees(except when withdrawing,miner fees).. The other 50% is then split 20-30(last time i checked) between Moneypot & Investor.

Yeah it seems my calculation is wrong, it cant be 50 % at all because the current system actually has a commission structure to moneypot for every wagered amount so it cant be that however assuming that it is then the numbers are actually correct , in the end it will be mostly the same

Your calculation is right. So basically, it is like losing 1 btc but you still are able to get back 50% of it which is 0.5btc back. However, i remember that it is not 50%. I remember there is one time i hear that it also factor in on the fee for campaign signatures and some other misc stuffs.

Let me help in crunching down some simple number to help understand this.

Assuming that an app owner wager 100 bitcoin of volume in his 1 % house edge site, that gives him half of the house edge back to him as app owner

So 50 % of 1 % house edge * 100 bitcoins = 0.5 bitcoin

Assuming that there is no variance or anything at all, he will lose 1 bitcoin for every 100 bitcoins volume

Which means he lose approx 0.5 bitcoin every 100 bitcoin volume

In the end it will be the same as normal player betting on a 0.5 % house edge?

P.S : Is the share of app profit still 50 % of the house edge?

Thanks for clearing things up. When i saw people asking such valid questions, i also start to worry about the system. Thanks for clarifying with us and this makes me believe that the MP team is really very delicate to this projects.

To answer a few questions:

Apps can be set up to run on their own BR and kick back bets larger than what they can handle to MoneyPot. This takes a bit of extra coding on the app owner's end, and in the future we may or may not allow this if it becomes an issue (i.e. every app starts doing it), right now no active MoneyPot site does this I believe.

As far as app owners betting EV+: This is false. As stingleword said, MoneyPot's bankroll only accepts bets that are Kelly compliant (EV+ for bankroll). App owners do bet on their own sites, however they make up a very minor portion of the site volume.

I thought one question was if an app owner can use his own bank roll with a MP app and if yes how much is the MP share? please correct me if I am wrong.

Lots of questions, let me try to explain.

The MoneyPot engine accepts -EV (Kelly Compliant) wagers against *its own bankroll* for any app. The MoneyPot engine can also service any wager (even +EV wagers) against an apps' individual bankroll. +EV wagers are only accepted when authorized by an app backend; apps that use "implicit flow" (frontend only) do not have this option available to them at all. (LuckyBit Micro and LuckyBit Derby are implicit flow apps.) MoneyPot will not service a +EV wager if the app requesting it does not have the balance to pay it out. This type of bet does not affect investment: the MoneyPot bankroll is untouched.

Ok, that sort of makes sense. If I had developed an app I would like that feature a lot, so makes sense. And of course MP doesn't include those bets in the site statistics because they would throw off the calculations for bankroll profit, or require more parsing of data ... ok. I'd be curious to know how much Betterbets or the other apps actually use this feature. I would guess BB uses it as you suggest, to some extent, less likely the other apps.

I understand that the bankroll will be exclusively available on the app (and that a different set of seeds will be used for bets that can be supported by the app's bankroll).

I understand it to be different then investing in the MP global bankroll because your bankroll will only apply to your app and your bankroll will have the right of first refusal of any bet received by a player of your app. If may be beneficial to invest in your app's bankroll if your app has significant betting volume and most of the bets placed in your app are generally smaller bets. It would also be beneficial to invest in your app's bankroll if players tend to place progressive betting strategies, the beginning of which your bankroll can support, but cannot support as the bets get large -- for example, if your app's bankroll can handle bets as large as 1 BTC, you have someone who is making 49.5% bets that increases 2x on loss with a starting bet of 0.01, then your bankroll would handle the bets up to .64 BTC, and the MP bankroll would handle bets 1.28 and up, however as a player incurs a long loosing streak, your bankroll will profit, while the MP bankroll will payout the larger wins - so if someone were to make 8 bets in the above fashion, the first 7 of which lose, and the last one wins, then your bankroll will profit in the amounts of .01, .02, .04, .08, .16, .32, and .64 (total profit 1.27), and the MP bankroll will payout a win of 1.28. On the flip side however, your bankroll will need to sustain losses for every bet that is a win for the player in the above type of sequence that is less then 7 consecutive losses.   

I am not sure if MP takes a cut from each bet placed with an app's bankroll, however I would assume that they do.

Maybe dogedigital or another of the MP owners can give more information.

^ Can you PM me or post your username please?

Just fwiw, I've been processing any withdrawals users have requested with proof of ownership.

Also, our system is a lot more delicate than any other normal site.  We have to cross reference several things and make sure every bit lines up.  It would be negligent not to take our time and do so to protect investor's funds and the integrity of the system.

I assure you the downtime to fix a few issues that we had will allow for everyone to benefit in the long term over the lost downtime that we've faced, but everyone is free to make their own decisions as to what to do.