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Topic: MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet - page 32. (Read 77137 times)

legendary
Activity: 1463
Merit: 1886
September 05, 2015, 10:09:29 PM
Yeah, I saw now. Were some extra stats to the right I somehow missed. Even with the house edge coming close to expected the investors struggle to make money. Combine that with the risk of hacks/scams e.tc. and I'm not sure there is an edge here for investors.

I think you're on the mark here, and it's the right way to look at it. Depending on the turnover it can go from being a horrible to great investment.
legendary
Activity: 1463
Merit: 1886
September 05, 2015, 09:58:24 PM
I can't give exact numbers to back it up, but from the major whale betting, I noticed that while the relative amount of the bankroll I had remained the same, when the whale won/lost most, my profit had still been dropped by a noticeable amount. I've seen this in the past, as well, such that if I had 1% of the bankroll and profit was at +30, then it went to -30 and back to +30 while I still held exactly 1%, my profit would be down by a decent amount. This is likely because of the cut the site owners get, which is based on a per-roll basis (so if that +30->-30->+30 had a turnover of 1k BTC, the site owners get a pretty nice chunk of the investor profits.

Yeah, this can definitely happen. A whale can lose money, but if they lose less than the EV it's possible investors will be out of pocket. If the whale does their EV (or worse) investors will make a profit. And if the whale wins (like today, someone won 7 BTC on BetterBets) it can do a bit of damage to the investor profit.

It's really a tricky balance of splitting profit between app developers (who do all the work) and investors (who take all the risk). As it stands right now, app developers have made a 93.136 BTC in profits and 9.02 has gone to investors. I'm not sure the split has been so terrible, I just wish we were doing x10 the volume to ease out some of the variance and bring more money to the table =) For the last month or so, MoneyPot has been running with 0 commissions, so our primary source of income has been cold addresses ( https://blog.moneypot.com/cold-addresses/ ) which isn't included in any of the stats (but more than covering hosting costs, at least). So if anyone has coins they need mixed, give us a try  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1463
Merit: 1886
September 05, 2015, 09:44:30 PM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

Nah, looks great! I didn't publish it very widely, so not sure if you've seen (or using it) but there's an API: https://www.moneypot.com/full-stats.json that gets the combined stats in a single hit and also contains a rather interesting field: app_comissions which is the amount of money I've given to apps as risk-free commissions.




hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
September 05, 2015, 05:03:13 AM
I can't give exact numbers to back it up, but from the major whale betting, I noticed that while the relative amount of the bankroll I had remained the same, when the whale won/lost most, my profit had still been dropped by a noticeable amount. I've seen this in the past, as well, such that if I had 1% of the bankroll and profit was at +30, then it went to -30 and back to +30 while I still held exactly 1%, my profit would be down by a decent amount. This is likely because of the cut the site owners get, which is based on a per-roll basis (so if that +30->-30->+30 had a turnover of 1k BTC, the site owners get a pretty nice chunk of the investor profits.

Of course the apps get commission from wager . Without that commission no one will want to open his site at moneypot, besides they need to pay for the hosting and other giveaway  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes. 17 btc is a good amount and still less than 20k btc wagered. It needs more volume to get more profit and more people that have bad luck not like that luthic guy that win alot
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:52:40 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X


This can't be right?

Overall
Bets   78,009,946
Wagered   17,792 BTC
Profit   136.1 BTC
Expected   156.8 BTC
House edge   0.88%
Invested   362.2 BTC


and moneypot official stats: Investor Profit:    +16,733,571 bits


Or has the rest gone to ryan/site owners?

Based on that information, that's what I gathered... keep in mind that before a week or so ago, Ryan was taking part of the profit as well (which I don't think is added to investor profit), as well as site owners. These numbers, if correct, do help show why even when players are losing, the investors can still lose money, though.

Yeah, I saw now. Were some extra stats to the right I somehow missed. Even with the house edge coming close to expected the investors struggle to make money. Combine that with the risk of hacks/scams e.tc. and I'm not sure there is an edge here for investors.

I can't give exact numbers to back it up, but from the major whale betting, I noticed that while the relative amount of the bankroll I had remained the same, when the whale won/lost most, my profit had still been dropped by a noticeable amount. I've seen this in the past, as well, such that if I had 1% of the bankroll and profit was at +30, then it went to -30 and back to +30 while I still held exactly 1%, my profit would be down by a decent amount. This is likely because of the cut the site owners get, which is based on a per-roll basis (so if that +30->-30->+30 had a turnover of 1k BTC, the site owners get a pretty nice chunk of the investor profits.
legendary
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
September 05, 2015, 04:50:22 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

Cool. MiniDice is still there haha.
Kinda miss moderating it, new owner just let it all go bust.

Still an avid MoneyPot app fan though!
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1295
DiceSites.com owner
September 05, 2015, 04:46:31 AM
I am pretty sure these numbers are correct, yes. Overall profit = simple sum of profit of all apps.



I am probably using the term "house edge" incorrectly there.

Overall - HE = average house edge based on expected profit.
Investor - HE = expected house edge for investor.
App/MP - HE = actually guaranteed commission.

Because the players were relatively lucky too, the actual "profit percentage" of both the site and investors is lower.



Also it is important to realize that HE (or expected profit I guess) is only 1 part of the calculation for profits for investors. Your share (and therefor the bankroll amount) and total wagered are the other parts. In theory this site has a relatively low bankroll so it can be still good compared to other sites. However, I didn't compare it yet.



edit: to give a concrete example, at BitDice you would get 4x bigger edge based on these calculations, but the bankroll is also more than 4x bigger.. so if the wagered amount is the same, you probably make more at MP.

Although another interesting point is, that if the bankroll of MP gets bigger, not only you get diluted but the house edge for investors will most likely go down unless players start playing higher stakes too.
legendary
Activity: 930
Merit: 1010
September 05, 2015, 04:41:36 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X


This can't be right?

Overall
Bets   78,009,946
Wagered   17,792 BTC
Profit   136.1 BTC
Expected   156.8 BTC
House edge   0.88%
Invested   362.2 BTC


and moneypot official stats: Investor Profit:    +16,733,571 bits


Or has the rest gone to ryan/site owners?

Based on that information, that's what I gathered... keep in mind that before a week or so ago, Ryan was taking part of the profit as well (which I don't think is added to investor profit), as well as site owners. These numbers, if correct, do help show why even when players are losing, the investors can still lose money, though.

Yeah, I saw now. Were some extra stats to the right I somehow missed. Even with the house edge coming close to expected the investors struggle to make money. Combine that with the risk of hacks/scams e.tc. and I'm not sure there is an edge here for investors.
legendary
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
monero
September 05, 2015, 04:32:20 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?

Nope. Bustabit is personally bankrolled by Ryan and is not part of MP's bankroll (due to it being a non-atomic game and MP being an atomic wallet).

thank you for the explanation, I wasn't aware of that.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1014
All Games incl Racer and Lottery game are Closed
September 05, 2015, 04:30:51 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

thanks for that, very good idea
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:29:11 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X


This can't be right?

Overall
Bets   78,009,946
Wagered   17,792 BTC
Profit   136.1 BTC
Expected   156.8 BTC
House edge   0.88%
Invested   362.2 BTC


and moneypot official stats: Investor Profit:    +16,733,571 bits


Or has the rest gone to ryan/site owners?

Based on that information, that's what I gathered... keep in mind that before a week or so ago, Ryan was taking part of the profit as well (which I don't think is added to investor profit), as well as site owners. These numbers, if correct, do help show why even when players are losing, the investors can still lose money, though.
legendary
Activity: 930
Merit: 1010
September 05, 2015, 04:27:55 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X


This can't be right?

Overall
Bets   78,009,946
Wagered   17,792 BTC
Profit   136.1 BTC
Expected   156.8 BTC
House edge   0.88%
Invested   362.2 BTC


and moneypot official stats: Investor Profit:    +16,733,571 bits


Or has the rest gone to ryan/site owners?
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:27:04 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?
Nope bustabit was although, sometime before, called moneypot but they sold the domain and now they aren't in any way( I think so) affilated to moneypot.

It's related in that Ryan owns both. Not sure where you heard that the domain was sold. Ryan has and still owns both.
Huh... I guessed it when I saw that moneypot was changing its name to bustabit and moving to another domain, so I thought they got a nice offer for the domain "moneypot" , hence they decided to move their own domain.

Ahh, no. MoneyPot just sounded like a better name for a wallet, I'm guessing, and BustaBit was better for the game.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 05, 2015, 04:20:32 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?
Nope bustabit was although, sometime before, called moneypot but they sold the domain and now they aren't in any way( I think so) affilated to moneypot.

It's related in that Ryan owns both. Not sure where you heard that the domain was sold. Ryan has and still owns both.
Huh... I guessed it when I saw that moneypot was changing its name to bustabit and moving to another domain, so I thought they got a nice offer for the domain "moneypot" , hence they decided to move their own domain.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:15:12 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?
Nope bustabit was although, sometime before, called moneypot but they sold the domain and now they aren't in any way( I think so) affilated to moneypot.

It's related in that Ryan owns both. Not sure where you heard that the domain was sold. Ryan has and still owns both.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 05, 2015, 04:14:14 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?
Nope bustabit was although, sometime before, called moneypot but they sold the domain and now they aren't in any way( I think so) affilated to moneypot.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:13:41 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?

Nope. Bustabit is personally bankrolled by Ryan and is not part of MP's bankroll (due to it being a non-atomic game and MP being an atomic wallet).
legendary
Activity: 874
Merit: 1000
monero
September 05, 2015, 04:12:11 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

ah, awesome Nico! always wondered about those statistics combined Smiley

but since I'm not 100% familiar with moneypot. isn't bustabit also a part of it?
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
September 05, 2015, 04:11:58 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X

I love it! This makes things a lot more clear and easy to see, Smiley. Thanks!
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1295
DiceSites.com owner
September 05, 2015, 04:08:47 AM
I made a page with all relevant apps and overall statistics of MoneyPot. Should be useful for investors and maybe players.

http://dicesites.com/moneypot - updates every 15 minutes


If there is any error in the statistics, please tell me(!)




Ps, mobile version is broken.
Ps2, I hope Ryan doesn't mind me making all these stats transparent :X
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